Recommendation for Animal detection

thundercam · Nov 22, 2023

I mainly run IPC-HDW5442TM-AS with V2.800.0000000.8.R firmware because I like IVS rules picking up on animal detection. Id like to order a few new cameras but hesitant choosing for this reason. I’m uncertain if the newer S3’s will perform as well. Any suggestions to make selecting a newer model? I’ve always been impressed with the 1-1/8 CMOS

wittaj · Nov 22, 2023

The newer models are focusing on human and vehicle.

With the S3 model I have, I turned off target and made a min size small and it still only draws boxes around people and cars and even though a dog is a lot bigger that the min size I selected it won't draw a box around it.

Your best bet would be to find some used 5442s with the old GUI that you can flash the older firmware to.

tigerwillow1 · Nov 23, 2023

I'm assuming that the ....0.8.R firmware won't work in the S3 models. It would take somebody trying it to be sure, but I have little hope for it. I don't think any of the lower end cameras that will pick up animals come even close to the 5442 for low light image quality, so they are not viable options. Andy once checked if the 0.8.R firmware would load on the fixed-focal 5442 he was currently selling as a favor for me. Maybe he'd be willing to try that on an S3 5442? I've been checking Andy's web site for refurb fixed-focal 5442s and the supply has dried up. I'd be willing to do an even trade of my varifocal 5442 if anybody were to be interested. I'm looking for a 6mm version, which unfortunately is the rarest one, I believe.

Iemand91 · Nov 23, 2023

If only this checkbox actually worked...

looney2ns · Nov 24, 2023

tigerwillow1 said:
I'm assuming that the ....0.8.R firmware won't work in the S3 models. It would take somebody trying it to be sure, but I have little hope for it. I don't think any of the lower end cameras that will pick up animals come even close to the 5442 for low light image quality, so they are not viable options. Andy once checked if the 0.8.R firmware would load on the fixed-focal 5442 he was currently selling as a favor for me. Maybe he'd be willing to try that on an S3 5442? I've been checking Andy's web site for refurb fixed-focal 5442s and the supply has dried up. I'd be willing to do an even trade of my varifocal 5442 if anybody were to be interested. I'm looking for a 6mm version, which unfortunately is the rarest one, I believe.

S3 models require their own version of the firmware due to hardware changes.

HereBull · Nov 27, 2023

Just out of my own curiosity, did Dahua do away with animal detection on newer cameras/models? Or is it just better on the older ones?

wittaj · Nov 27, 2023

HereBull said:
Just out of my own curiosity, did Dahua do away with animal detection on newer cameras/models? Or is it just better on the older ones?

I don't know if you can say they did away with animal detection, rather they improved the AI to hopefully only trigger on human or vehicle. Animal detection in the past was a result of either no AI or emerging AI that triggered falsely for animals.

We have to keep in mind we are not their target audience and their intended market is more concerned about human and vehicles and not animals or false triggers for an animal.

HereBull · Nov 27, 2023

wittaj said:
I don't know if you can say they did away with animal detection, rather they improved the AI to hopefully only trigger on human or vehicle.

We have to keep in mind we are not their target audience and their intended market is more concerned about human and vehicles and not animals or false triggers for an animal.

That is a very good way of putting it, detecting animals is definitely more unique/niche so I could see why less time would be spent targeting that.

Which is a shame as there are lots of scenarios I could see these being useful in if they had more specifics for animals, such as counting animals (counting hogs when loading out/in for example would be great in my case).

wittaj · Nov 27, 2023

HereBull said:
That is a very good way of putting it, detecting animals is definitely more unique/niche so I could see why less time would be spent targeting that.

Which is a shame as there are lots of scenarios I could see these being useful in if they had more specifics for animals, such as counting animals (counting hogs when loading out/in for example would be great in my case).

Yeah, maybe one day they will decide to be more open to this and/or their intended client base starts asking for it!

thundercam · Nov 28, 2023

4 bear cubs threw a party inside my garbage cans a few weeks ago. Animals aside, if anything crosses a target zone I’d like to detect on it; flying objects, tornado, aliens, etc. I don’t consider much a false detection except small objects like leaves, rain and bugs.

Didn’t expect this kind of feedback I’m really bummed out. I thought for sure I’d get a few latest and greatest recommendations. I’m going to test a few hikvision models out if dahua hasn’t produced anything better since.

tigerwillow1 · Nov 28, 2023

Please do report back if the better Hikvision cameras work for animal detection. With Dahua, I'm afraid that the NLA older 5442s are the end of the line for catching animals. I'm adding a teaser picture of what we're not able to have. It's an enlarged crop from a 4k-x at 2AM, lit only by moonlight. Sure, the quality sucks from the low light, but being able to see the deer at all, much less in color, is pretty impressive to me. The deer are about 150' from the camera, so the camera's built-in lights would be useless. I knew they were there from an IVS trigger on a 5442, but the newer greater 4k-x is unable to detect them.

NVR_Overhead Gully(3) - 4K-X_main_20231127021906_@1.jpg

Iemand91 · Nov 28, 2023

HereBull said:
Just out of my own curiosity, did Dahua do away with animal detection on newer cameras/models? Or is it just better on the older ones?

See my attached screenshot above. There was no 'animal detection' or anything like it before. All camera's would trigger just because something moved.
Newer camera's should still work like that if that checkbox in that screenshot is unchecked, but checking/unchecking that checkbox does nothing.
It's likely a very simple (firmware) fix but for some reason, Dahua does not fix it.

The only way to detect 'things' (like animals) other than people of vehicles, is to use the (far unsuperior and less reliable) motion detection, but that gets triggered by anything, including shadows so that's pretty much unusable. Or use external (recording)software like Blue Iris/Frigate that can detect other things than people/vehicles.

That's the whole reason why I have 2 camera's installed in front of our house. An older 5231 and the new 5442 S3. The 5442 for the image quality and the 5231 for detecting things like cats, marters etc.
I would love to get rid of the 5231 (and place is somewhere else), but I can't. I need it for detecting animals the 5442 doesn't pick up.

bigredfish · Nov 28, 2023

I run old fashioned MD at night between 9pm and 5am (in addition to IVS) on 3 cameras (front and rear doors, small section of backyard) and they do catch critters. Granted, all 3 locations are somewhat isolated and have little chance of picking up shadows or wind blown plants/tree limbs. If you're careful about restricting the detection zone and sensitivity to areas that have low probability of unwanted alerts, it can work fine. Bugs are the only real issue.

Of course if you're wanting detection over a large area with vegetation especially during daytime, its a bigger problem.

View attachment FROG-Home_ch4_20230828012345_20230828012400.mp4

H. Swanson · Nov 29, 2023

bigredfish said:
I run old fashioned MD at night between 9pm and 5am (in addition to IVS) on 3 cameras (front and rear doors, small section of backyard) and they do catch critters. Granted, all 3 locations are somewhat isolated and have little chance of picking up shadows or wind blown plants/tree limbs. If you're careful about restricting the detection zone and sensitivity to areas that have low probability of unwanted alerts, it can work fine. Bugs are the only real issue.

Of course if you're wanting detection over a large area with vegetation especially during daytime, its a bigger problem.

Do you live in the Everglades?

bigredfish · Nov 29, 2023

LOL no but I do have an interesting backyard

View attachment Home_ch5_20230904073838_20230904073918.mp4

Go full screen and sound up
View attachment Home_ch5_20230810003657_20230810003711.mp4

H. Swanson · Nov 29, 2023

So cool

H. Swanson · Jan 31, 2024

bigredfish said:
I run old fashioned MD at night between 9pm and 5am (in addition to IVS) on 3 cameras (front and rear doors, small section of backyard) and they do catch critters. Granted, all 3 locations are somewhat isolated and have little chance of picking up shadows or wind blown plants/tree limbs. If you're careful about restricting the detection zone and sensitivity to areas that have low probability of unwanted alerts, it can work fine. Bugs are the only real issue.

Of course if you're wanting detection over a large area with vegetation especially during daytime, its a bigger problem.

I have the 5442 S3s and EmpireTech AI NVR. I'm bummed that there's no animal detection like there is human and motor vehicle. SMD sets off so many false alarms, so it's hard to catch animals that way, and I don't think I can restrict to a detection zone, can I? I know that's possible with IVS, but I wish it were possible with SMD because I definitely could weed out some of the noise.

TechBill · Jan 31, 2024

If you are an Apple Ecosystem home user, you could check out a 3rd party app Scrypted Scrypted and use the Apple AI to detect animals. It does a very good job on all of my Dahua camera. Even detect squirrels on my porch until I finally got tired of the alerts and power washed my porch to get rid of any traces of spilled drinks or foods because it was attracting them to my porch. I use the animal detecting to alert me on my iPhone if any of my kids left the door open and the cat sneaked out.

H. Swanson · Jan 31, 2024

TechBill said:
If you are an Apple Ecosystem home user, you could check out a 3rd party app Scrypted Scrypted and use the Apple AI to detect animals. It does a very good job on all of my Dahua camera. Even detect squirrels on my porch until I finally got tired of the alerts and power washed my porch to get rid of any traces of spilled drinks or foods because it was attracting them to my porch. I use the animal detecting to alert me on my iPhone if any of my kids left the door open and the cat sneaked out.

Interesting. I've read other threads about Scrypted. I don't have a Mac but I use iPhone and iPad. Will that work? Or does it need to be a Mac?

TechBill · Jan 31, 2024

H. Swanson said:
Interesting. I've read other threads about Scrypted. I don't have a Mac but I use iPhone and iPad. Will that work? Or does it need to be a Mac?

it'll work on iPhone and iPad. You'll need a small pc to run Scrypted and an Apple hub. I am not sure but I think iPad can be the Apple hub. I run it in a Beelink mini pc and use AppleTV as my Apple hub. It'll send alert to all of my Apple Ecosystem devices online. I use it because I am deaf and it alert me if a person come to my door to all of my Apple devices before they even get a chance to press the doorbell on my doorcam.

When i am watching TV, AppleTV will pop up a picture in picture screen in the upper corner when there a person detected coming to my door.

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Recommendation for Animal detection

thundercam

n3wb

wittaj

tigerwillow1

Known around here

Iemand91

Pulling my weight

looney2ns

HereBull

Getting the hang of it

wittaj

HereBull

Getting the hang of it

wittaj

thundercam

n3wb

tigerwillow1

Known around here

Iemand91

Pulling my weight

bigredfish

Known around here

H. Swanson

Getting the hang of it

bigredfish

Known around here

H. Swanson

Getting the hang of it

H. Swanson

Getting the hang of it

TechBill

Known around here

H. Swanson

Getting the hang of it

TechBill

Known around here