Remote/Wireless POE Switch?

Luther Harlow · Mar 6, 2024

Excuse my ignorance when it comes to networking - trying to learn things as I go and keep getting confused lol.

Current setup is a dedicated BI PC w/dual NIC going to the ISP router and a POE switch.
I'd like to set up another switch in the shed behind my house maybe 25 yards away, BUT running a cable would be very difficult due to in-ground obstacles/conditions.
What's the best way to accomplish this? Couple of old wifi routers configured as APs? It's direct line of sight so I could rig up directional antennas as well.

Thank you!

wittaj · Mar 6, 2024

You could try that.

But a nano station or powerline adapter to run data over your electric lines would be more reliable.

Luther Harlow · Mar 6, 2024

wittaj said:
You could try that.

But a nano station or powerline adapter to run data over your electric lines would be more reliable.

I'll do some research on the nano station. And unfortunately a powerline adapter won't work because it's on a different circuit, plus I've had issues in the past with them.

wittaj · Mar 6, 2024

That's a bummer. I used one in my shed on a different circuit. They are great when they work, but we have seen them here work and not work under similar situations.

Luther Harlow · Mar 6, 2024

I've used powerline adapters in the past temporarily with success, but I've already tried the shed and it can't establish a connection for whatever reason. It has it's own panel but it's also fed from a sub-panel in the house that doesn't have any outlets attached to it.

looney2ns · Mar 7, 2024

Luther Harlow said:
I'll do some research on the nano station. And unfortunately a powerline adapter won't work because it's on a different circuit, plus I've had issues in the past with them.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1121763-REG/ubiquiti_networks_locom5_us_airmax_nanostationlocom_5_ghz.html

TonyR · Mar 7, 2024

+1^^^.
Assuming you have clear LOS (Line Of Sight) between the 2 points a pair of the above, configured as a Layer 2 Transparent Bridge, would work very well. If the distance between the house and shed is minimal, you'll likely have to lower their power a bit. Below is the schema I've used a lot and successfully:

tangent · Mar 7, 2024

Luther Harlow said:
I've used powerline adapters in the past temporarily with success, but I've already tried the shed and it can't establish a connection for whatever reason. It has it's own panel but it's also fed from a sub-panel in the house that doesn't have any outlets attached to it.

I was going to say you need power. Trying to go solar and batteries takes some effort.

Depending on what model of power line adapter you tried, you may want to try a different one or an outlet on a different circuit in the house. I'd specifically suggest the Netgear PL1200 or PLP2000. Your odds of success with the AV2 models with a ground plug are a little higher.

Luther Harlow · Mar 7, 2024

tangent said:
I was going to say you need power. Trying to go solar and batteries takes some effort.

Depending on what model of power line adapter you tried, you may want to try a different one or an outlet on a different circuit in the house. I'd specifically suggest the Netgear PL1200 or PLP2000. Your odds of success with the AV2 models with a ground plug are a little higher.

I should've clarified... I meant electrical panel, not solar. I'll try testing a couple different outlets to see if any are "closer" in the circuit. Not sure what keeps the signal in the circuits... maybe the sub-panel ground isn't bonded properly to the main?

wittaj · Mar 7, 2024

Make sure you are not using a power strip/surge protector as that seems to kill the process - straight into the wall outlet.

I have tested mine in a variety of scenarios as I helped friends with their system and all were successful.

Mine is on two different sides of the breaker box.
I tried it with an old house that only had two wiring outlets (no ground wire).
A friends house that had two panels and the breaker for each were one in each panel.
One that went thru like 3 GFCI to get to a shed in a backyard.

In every attempt I tried, it either worked or didn't. The times it didn't was when we had on a surge protector.

tangent · Mar 7, 2024

Luther Harlow said:
I should've clarified... I meant electrical panel, not solar. I'll try testing a couple different outlets to see if any are "closer" in the circuit. Not sure what keeps the signal in the circuits... maybe the sub-panel ground isn't bonded properly to the main?

The bigger issues are which phase the circuits are on, sources of interference, and things like surge protectors and ACFIs / GFCIs that may filter out the signal.

There's also a fair amount of variability between different models / chipsets.

Luther Harlow · Mar 7, 2024

TonyR said:
+1^^^.
Assuming you have clear LOS (Line Of Sight) between the 2 points a pair of the above, configured as a Layer 2 Transparent Bridge, would work very well. If the distance between the house and shed is minimal, you'll likely have to lower their power a bit. Below is the schema I've used a lot and successfully:

Awesome, thanks for the detailed diagram! Do these units need to be on the same subnet as the camera system? Again, still trying to understand all these networking concepts.

Luther Harlow · Mar 7, 2024

wittaj said:
Make sure you are not using a power strip/surge protector as that seems to kill the process - straight into the wall outlet.

I have tested mine in a variety of scenarios as I helped friends with their system and all were successful.

Mine is on two different sides of the breaker box.

I tried it with an old house that only had two wiring outlets (no ground wire).

A friends house that had two panels and the breaker for each were one in each panel.

One that went thru like 3 GFCI to get to a shed in a backyard.

In every attempt I tried, it either worked or didn't. The times it didn't was when we had on a surge protector.

Ok cool, I'll give it another shot with some different outlets. My house is older and most of the outlets weren't grounded originally. I wouldn't be surprised if the power running to the shed is out of phase.

tigerwillow1 · Mar 7, 2024

If you have 240 volt power in the shed, both phases are out there. If 120 volt, only one phase is there and it's likely that some outlets in the house are on that phase, and some aren't. (Apologies to anyone offended by use of the term "phase" in this context).

TonyR · Mar 7, 2024

Luther Harlow said:
Awesome, thanks for the detailed diagram! Do these units need to be on the same subnet as the camera system? Again, still trying to understand all these networking concepts.

They do not have to be but IMO it's best to have them on the same subnet of that LAN so you can troubleshoot issue right from a PC that's on that same subnet. When the bridge is up and working from a PC on the LAN you can bring up the embedded webGUI of the radio at the shed and that confirms the link is working. From there you should also be able to ping the IP or open the webGUI of the shed cameras on that same subnet.

Configure and test on the bench for communication before mounting. I assign unique, static IP's, all in the same subnet as the PC's and the main router BUT outside of that router's DHCP pool.

AGPharmD · Mar 7, 2024

looney2ns said:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1121763-REG/ubiquiti_networks_locom5_us_airmax_nanostationlocom_5_ghz.html

I second this. I haven’t used this product in particular but I am big fan of Ubiquity/UniFi hardware. Easy to setup, reliable, and often reasonably priced (though not always).

——

Ideally the best option is to have a direct Ethernet wired to the outbuilding in conduit 2ft deep. The point to point wifi the next best thing.

You could try powerline adapters but they seem to be rather hit or miss depending on how things are setup. Despite what the product says is the maximum bandwidth, you’re only going to get a very small fraction of that.

Charts - SmallNetBuilder

www.smallnetbuilder.com

TonyR · Mar 8, 2024

tigerwillow1 said:
(Apologies to anyone offended by use of the term "phase" in this context).

Works for me.

Electricians like "leg" and I use it also, but I like "phase" even better because in a 120/240 single "phase", 3-wire residential circuit the 2 "legs" are 180° out of "phase" which is why there's 240 volts between them.

CanCuba · Mar 8, 2024

I don't use my Nano M5 for my cameras but my primary internet is supplied by through a Nano M5 from a distance of 2km away. As long as the antennas are aligned, the signal is flawless.

tigerwillow1 · Mar 8, 2024

TonyR said:
Electricians like "leg" and use it also, but like "phase" even better

I used to spend a lot of time on an RV forum where you would be pummeled for talking about two phases with 240 volt service. (Saying "hot water heater" brought you serious punishment, too). I can see why somebody looking from the supply end would think it's single phase, since that's what it is almost all the way up to the service entrance. But looking at it from the consumption end, it's 2 phases, darn it, and the inflexible single phase people just can't see it that way. I've found that using the term split phase gets the idea across without feeding the terminology war. Legs is good, too.

TonyR · Mar 8, 2024

tigerwillow1 said:
I used to spend a lot of time on an RV forum where you would be pummeled for talking about two phases with 240 volt service. (Saying "hot water heater" brought you serious punishment, too). I can see why somebody looking from the supply end would think it's single phase, since that's what it is almost all the way up to the service entrance. But looking at it from the consumption end, it's 2 phases, darn it, and the inflexible single phase people just can't see it that way. I've found that using the term split phase gets the idea across without feeding the terminology war. Legs is good, too.

I looked at my post #17 and saw where I left out "I" (me) in 2 places! I swear, my brain is turning to mush.

Anyway, I tell 'em how can it be a "single" phase when the 2 "legs" are 180° apart? :idk:

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Remote/Wireless POE Switch?

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