Do you really need a surge protector for POE cameras?

[mikey299]

From what I have read on the internet it seems like a lot of people don't have any surge protection at all. Is it really necessary then? They also say that if the lightning hits (even in the vicinity of the house) it will fry everything anyway (even the surge protectors)

I was thinking about placing a camera on an exterior house wall. That way I have to run only 15 feet of POE cable outside instead of through the yard (which was my first idea).

-do I still need a surge protector?

Keep in mind we don't get that many thunderstorms where I live (mediterranean climate). I also have lots of high trees in my yard and I don't have any lightning rods on my house - if it makes any difference.

I was thinking about this one:

https://www.amazon.de/Network-Isolator-Protection-Lightning-62619-gray/dp/B00WZ3QHVQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_11?crid=WS3LA49YYW8P&keywords=surge+protector+poe&qid=1694000098&sprefix=surge+protector+poe,aps,127&sr=8-11

(it has lots of positive reviews and is cheaper to buy than say ubiquiti - I'm from europe)

-does it also help with lightning or is it mainly for other kind of surges?

-do I need one or two surge protectors (one at the camera and one inside at the POE switch? ...keep in mind the cable will run outside only for around 15 feet - it will not be buried)

-how do you ground these things (if you have a surge protector inside and if you also have it outside)? Please explain it to me like I'm an idiot, because when it comes to these things, I am

-is turning off cameras during a thunderstorm advised?

Thanks

 

[TonyR]

I would put this one on that 15 foot line, in the house between the camera and the switch and ground its yellow/green wire.

I used a similar one in a double-wide trailer used as a freight brokerage office. It had a metal roof and they were getting frequent damage to PC network interfaces, switches and routers from induced static from nearby lightning strikes (pretty fierce here in AL, US.).

It has opened up twice in 6 years, doing its job as a type of "fuse" if you will, clamping the ESD to earth....no devices it was ahead of were damaged, just the sacrificial device. It was more similar to another one your amazon site shows ==>>RJ45 RJ11 Ethernet Surge Protection, Full Protection Mounting, Lightning Protection, Network Protection, 5 V for Surge of Surveillance Systems, Power Supply, Adapter, Lighting, Delider, Thunder Surge

 

[TonyR]

Also:

Any type of Ethernet/network cable surge protector must be located in the right places, especially to minimize and optimize the number installed.

Can you provide a quick sketch of your network, showing camera(s), switch(es) if any, NVR or PC and your ISP router (incoming Internet) ?

 

[Starglow]

I have both UPS backup power and surge protection for my NVR unit and all of my outside cables run through PVC electrical conduit. I'm a firm believer in using the PVC electrical conduit whenever possible because it adds an extra layer of protection to the cable. Unless outside cameras take a direct hit it's highly unlikely that a lightning surge would happen if the cables are encased in PVC conduit. Also keep in mind that surge protectors have maximum surge protection limits and hopefully will blow before the surge gets through them, but there are no guarantees that it won't. Surge protectors degrade over time with age and repeated "hits" and it's usually recommended to replace them every five years or sooner if you suspect a hit has occurred because otherwise you may think you're still protected but aren't.

 

[TonyR]

I have both UPS backup power and surge protection for my NVR unit and all of my outside cables run through PVC electrical conduit. I'm a firm believer in using the PVC electrical conduit whenever possible because it adds an extra layer of protection to the cable. Unless outside cameras take a direct hit it's highly unlikely that a lightning surge would happen if the cables are encased in PVC conduit.

PVC?

 

[looney2ns]

Umm, I'm afraid PVC won't help at all with induced surges.
An induced surge can occur from a lightning strike from up to a mile or more away.

 

[Starglow]

Umm, I'm afraid PVC won't help at all with induced surges.
An induced surge can occur from a lightning strike from up to a mile or more away.

Well sure.....you could throw all kinds of potential surge scenarios out there. But my point was that Ethernet cables directly exposed to the elements are better protected if they're in PVC electrical conduit that is also a more professional looking installation versus a "naked cable" which is sloppy work and asking for trouble.

 

[Starglow]

PVC?

Electrical PVC.....not plumbing.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I view it as a risk/reward situation. What's the likelihood of losing a camera or switch in your location? How much does the surge protection cost compared to the equipment you might lose? How long before you will replace a camera anyway? How often will there be a failure related to the extra connectors for the surge protectors? Gather all the data, crunch the numbers, and make your best guess. Over 6 years I've been lucky with no surge protection, and a few thousand feet of cat6 a foot under in pvc.. No cameras lost to lightning, and almost all have been replaced with newer (and more expensive) ones. I could have a close hit tomorrow and lose them all. I have lost a couple of magnetic driveway sensors. Maybe they are more susceptible to lightning damage?

 

[mikey299]

How do you ground a surge protector if it's indoors? Can I do it by myself or do I have to call an electrician?

 

[Starglow]

How do you ground a surge protector if it's indoors? Can I do it by myself or do I have to call an electrician?

It's grounded through an electrical outlet ground connection. No electrician needed.

 

[TonyR]

+1^^.
And the one I linked, you check to see if the center screw for the plastic outlet cover is grounded (good continuity to the green lug/ground prong) and if so, you can tie that yellow/green wire to that center screw.

 

[fnhanks]

So you’re just tying it to the existing structures electrical ground? You are NOT pounding in a ground rod and connecting the Ethernet surge protector to an EARTH ground? I’ve been trying to get this answer, and everyone just says grounding it, but that term is unfortunately too vague / broad so trying to figure out what to do. Im at the stage with framing in an outdoor structure where it’s easy to punch throw some studs and outside to a ground rod I can pound in to go to earth or to a subpanel to go to electrical ground, but not sure which is best.

 

[Broachoski]

I setup a BI system with a few cameras for a friend. Last week they had a lightning stike that took out their main transformer. It took out their whole home generator, water well controller, television, Dirctv receiver, internet modem etc. They had removed the BI PC and Poe switch from a basic UPS that I had it attached to and had it plugged directly into the wall. That particular room fed from a GFCI receptacle.
That GFCI was also blown but none of the BI system was harmed. Though GFCI nor anything else is safe when lightning is on the warpath, I do think it may have saved the Blueiris system.

 

[Gimmons]

So you’re just tying it to the existing structures electrical ground? You are NOT pounding in a ground rod and connecting the Ethernet surge protector to an EARTH ground? ...

I'm not an electrician, but I believe they discourage multiple grounds, and want all the grounded loads to go to a single earth ground, often the cold water main, or a copper grounding rod. Apparently there is enough difference in the resistance of soil (especially if one area is wetter than another) that there can be a voltage differential between the grounding points.

 

[c hris527]

Adding a second or separate earth ground away from your main Bus bar or home ground will cause a potential or as @Gimmons pointed out a "Differential" I had a job a few years back of installing Security cameras on a very large and expensive radio tower with a few million dollars worth of equipment on it. I was not comfortable with the grounding situation so The Company had a Motorola engineer come to the site and help me out. In the end, the best solution was to float the cameras back to the shelter house and ground them to the bus bar With POE surge suppression grounded to the BUS bar in the shelter. Everything from the security fence to the Matrix spider ground on that tower was linked back to the Bus bar in the shelter. When all was said and done I pointed out to the engineer about the generator and above ground propane tank that had earth grounding rods, it went something like that was code and nothing was perfect. I have since retired from that Job but I do talk to people still working there and all is still running and well.

 

[jec6613]

Motorola has a whole document on it, and while with RF and coax you want an independent ground, tie to your main ground (just grab the nearest ground pin).

The surge protection on twisted pair primarily protects the switch, not the cameras - so long as the camera itself isn't grounded, it doesn't really care if the power supplied is 1000V referenced to ground, so long as it's within the nominal expected voltage +/- on DC current. That's why Ma Bell used twisted pair and required the phones not be grounded at the end, and it was rare for lightning to kill a line powered phone.

Generally you'd install it right on the rack next to the switch and use the main rack ground bus. I have a DIN rail loaded with them that sits between the switch and the patch panel.