Question on Hikvision NVRs

Avneet · Oct 29, 2016

I'm looking to get an 8 Channel NVR. It doesn't matter to me if it has built in POE or not. I see two options to choose from. Are there any other differences between these two NVRs other than number of channels and built in POE? Am I good to go with the 16 Channel one + a POE Switch (slightly cheaper), or is there something additional worth purchasing the 8 with built in POE? Thank you.

http://www.nellyssecurity.com/recorders/nsn-608-8p-8-channel-poe-plug-n-play-hi-def-nvr-recorder-746.html

http://www.nellyssecurity.com/recorders/nsn-616-16-channel-hi-def-nvr-recorder.html

nayr · Oct 29, 2016

I prefer external PoE, its more flexible and useful imho.. I dont recommend anyone buy an 8ch NVR, 16ch is much better for the long haul..

the only reason to favor internal PoE is if you just want something simple and plug-n-play without much networking experience nessicary.

Avneet · Nov 3, 2016

Ok thanks. I'll go with the 16 Channel and get a POE switch.

Cam Neuton · Jan 2, 2017

nayr said:
I prefer external PoE, its more flexible and useful imho.. I dont recommend anyone buy an 8ch NVR, 16ch is much better for the long haul..

the only reason to favor internal PoE is if you just want something simple and plug-n-play without much networking experience nessicary.

I'm new on this forum, nayr, and I presently have an 8 channel NVR with 7 1080P cameras. I want to get away from it and go to a better system, because I feel the cameras aren't that great of quality. My question here is if an NVR with POE is simple and plug n play without much networking experience, how much more difficult can an external switch be? Doesn't it just involve cables to the switch and then one cable from the switch to the computer?

To tell you the truth, one of the reasons I want to build a system from bottom up is to use the Blue Iris software. My NVR's present software isn't that great, and the vendor says they won't fix any bugs. It is what it is, which makes it somewhat difficult to use in some situations.

fenderman · Jan 2, 2017

Cam Neuton said:
I'm new on this forum, nayr, and I presently have an 8 channel NVR with 7 1080P cameras. I want to get away from it and go to a better system, because I feel the cameras aren't that great of quality. My question here is if an NVR with POE is simple and plug n play without much networking experience, how much more difficult can an external switch be? Doesn't it just involve cables to the switch and then one cable from the switch to the computer?

To tell you the truth, one of the reasons I want to build a system from bottom up is to use the Blue Iris software. My NVR's present software isn't that great, and the vendor says they won't fix any bugs. It is what it is, which makes it somewhat difficult to use in some situations.

it not much more difficult of you have some basic networking knowledge, and even with none, there is enough info here..when looking at cameras...Remember that more megapixels doesn't not equal better quality....

nayr · Jan 2, 2017

Really the only things different w/external PoE in complexity is getting the cameras on the network initially with fixed IP's.. after that the NVR should find em and load em up just as easy.

once you figured out how to do that its a piece of cake to repeat it and get the rest online.

Cam Neuton · Jan 2, 2017

When you say "getting the cameras on the network initially with fixed IPs, are you saying that Dahua or Hikvision cameras come with floating IPs and you have to connect them directly to a computer, find them, talk to them and tell them to fix their IP to one single and unique address? What is the mechanism of what you said above to make the cameras work. If it's too complicated to explain in a message, do you have a document I can read?

Cam Neuton · Jan 2, 2017

fenderman said:
...Remember that more megapixels doesn't not equal better quality....

When you say the above, do you mean "doesn't equal better quality" or "doesn't necessarily equal better quality." I've always experienced that if everything else matched the improved higher megapixel quality, you would indeed get a better picture or video. For example, if the lens gathered more light to shine on the smaller pixels, it would help improve the image. Is this correct?

What is the present state of the art in UHD cameras? Can any be had that has the matching components to make it a much higher definition camera?

nayr · Jan 2, 2017

Cam Neuton said:
When you say the above, do you mean "doesn't equal better quality" or "doesn't necessarily equal better quality." I've always experienced that if everything else matched the improved higher megapixel quality, you would indeed get a better picture or video. For example, if the lens gathered more light to shine on the smaller pixels, it would help improve the image. Is this correct?

No, its a common misconception.. taking pictures is all about gathering photons, if everything else is the same and you just increase pixel density you infact get worse low light capabilities as sensitvity is reduced.. you would have to increase the sensor size, lens size, and everything else linearly to accomidate the higher pixel rate if you just kept everything the same.

there's a reason why our space telescopes are huge and low resolution..

Cam Neuton · Jan 2, 2017

Well, that's what I meant. If you could get a lens that gathers more light to inpinge on the sensors or make the sensor bigger to have more but bigger pixels, it could be done, right?

I didn't know the Hubble was low resolution. It originally had a problem with being out of focus, but they fixed it such that the limiting resolution was the size of the mirror. Everything else was engineered accordingly to make the sensor pixels respond to the available light.

code2 · Jan 15, 2017

Cam Neuton said:
When you say "getting the cameras on the network initially with fixed IPs, are you saying that Dahua or Hikvision cameras come with floating IPs and you have to connect them directly to a computer, find them, talk to them and tell them to fix their IP to one single and unique address? What is the mechanism of what you said above to make the cameras work. If it's too complicated to explain in a message, do you have a document I can read?

Plug said cameras in to what ever POE switch you are going to use, then use the sadp program to locate the cameras on the network with a simple click of a button then bulk change the IP address's to what ever you want. I turn off dhcp on the cameras and assign them Ip's from the router that way the ip never changes.

c hris527 · Jan 16, 2017

nayr said:
I prefer external PoE, its more flexible and useful imho.. I dont recommend anyone buy an 8ch NVR, 16ch is much better for the long haul..

the only reason to favor internal PoE is if you just want something simple and plug-n-play without much networking experience nessicary.

Unless you are somebody like me who is just lazy and like's the fact I do not have to add a poe switch to my install. The built in POE NV'R have been very reliable and would be a good fit for somebody without a lot of networking experience. The downside is camera administration through the NVR interface. You can do the basic pan tilt zoom through the nvr interface but if you want a privacy mask or need to do a hard reset you will be showing up on site with your laptop and logging on direct. I would recommend them for simplicity. I set every one of my cameras directly before I let them loose on a POE nvr anyway so I do not get many issues going back to the site for fine adjustments. Their is a trade off for everything.

Cam Neuton · Jan 16, 2017

c hris527 said:
The downside is camera administration through the NVR interface. You can do the basic pan tilt zoom through the nvr interface but if you want a privacy mask or need to do a hard reset you will be showing up on site with your laptop and logging on direct. I would recommend them for simplicity.

Camera administration issues are what I've experienced with my Swann kit NVR7200. On top of that, I encountered a problem with camera presentation. It has several modes of camera presentation on the LCD TV monitor, but only one can be set up correctly. If I set up all 3 multiple camera presentation modes, only the last set up will be correct. Swann will not correct this issue, so I live with it.

One plus to the NVR side is that it uses my LCD TV screen for its set up and monitoring. I can watch single or multi-cameras on it while watching TV on PIP. I had no issues plugging in cameras and watching them come on live, so initial set up is very easy. I assume Hikvision and Dahua NVRs are much better quality, easier to set up and have the bugs worked out.

Having said all that, I've been rooting around looking at both Hikvision and Dahua cameras, NVRs and Blue Iris. I still haven't decided whether I will go with the NVR or dedicated computer/POE switches yet. I kind of like the Blue Iris, but one vendor told me it requires a subscription, implying a recurring fee. Does anyone know what this fee is all about?

I have decided that 4 mpixel is where it's at right now. Can anyone recommend a damn good bullet camera with about a 70 degree field of view? Thanks.

nayr · Jan 16, 2017

4MP is not where its at; overall they are a step backwards from 2MP.. check out the Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

Cam Neuton · Jan 16, 2017

Impressive camera for $170, but I don't see that much delta between my present system and this camera. I might add that I'm more concerned about daylight video than night time. I do intend to spend more money than $200 for each camera, but if 4 mpixel and/or UHD isn't ready for prime time, then perhaps I should continue using my system for another year or two, then see what's out there. One vendor did mention the Hikvision NSC-4X8Z-BT 4K EXIR camera at a hefty $800 price. I would consider this cameras at location 6 of existing CAT 6 wired POE locations, but since I know nothing about its real hands on quality, I'd rather wait until someone does a review.

Question: what is the SD card for on the camera? I thought all storage was at the NVR or computer.

nayr · Jan 16, 2017

even in daytime its better, dont fall for the megapixel race.. with varifocal you zoom in a lil more and have just the same PPF as 4MP but with better light gathering.. More Megapixels != More Detail.. We've put 4k cameras up against 1080p cameras and they performed worse in most situations, day and espically night.. The game is photons not pixels, the more photons you gather the more detail.. without it pixels are meaningless.

Onboard storage is to run standalone w/out NVR or Computer, I use it as backup.. my NVR will automatically retrieve any video that was recorded while it was down/offline.. also if my NVR is stolen/damaged I'll have a backup of the last day or up to the point where they were powered down.

I just yanked down one 4MP Camera and replaced it with a 1080p Starlight, Ive got one more 4MP camera to do the same thing with and I just ordered its replacement.. the daytime image is great on the 4MP but the 2MP Starlights are even better and they dont suck outside after the sunsets.. both 4MP cameras been up for less than 6 months or less.

RyanODan · Jan 26, 2017

Cam Neuton said:
Swann kit NVR7200

Just a heads up @Cam Neuton, usually Swann NVRs are rebranded Hikvision NVRs from what I've seen.

Cam Neuton said:
I kind of like the Blue Iris, but one vendor told me it requires a subscription, implying a recurring fee. Does anyone know what this fee is all about?

Blueiris is a one time fee of $59.99 I believe. No recurring fee's that I've ever heard about.

If you're looking for a good fixed lens 4MP bullet for general coverage and don't want to break the bank this one works really well: www.nellyssecurity.com/cameras/hi-def-cameras/ip-cameras/4-mp/nsc-2x4-bt-4mp-exir-ip-bullet-security-camera-4mm.html

It has an 83° FOV and 50m IR range. Here are the specifications if you want to take a look: http://www.hikvision.com//uploadfile/image/10139_NInformationProductInformation05DSDATASHEETSSourceFiles8CURRENTDATASHEETSVPValuePlusVPDS2CD2T42WDI5VPDS2CD2T42WDI5122116NA.pdf

You mentioned the 4K camera earlier and a NSN-616. If you do decide on 4K cameras you would need a different NVR to handle the 4K resolution. Here's a 16 channel that records up to 12MP and would be fully compatible with the 4K camera: http://www.nellyssecurity.com/recorders/nvrs/16-or-more-channels/nsn-7164k-16p-16-channel-poe-plug-n-play-hi-def-nvr-recorder-748.html

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Question on Hikvision NVRs

Avneet

n3wb

nayr

Avneet

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Cam Neuton

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fenderman

nayr

Cam Neuton

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Cam Neuton

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nayr

Cam Neuton

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code2

Getting the hang of it

c hris527

Known around here

Cam Neuton

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nayr

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nayr

RyanODan

IPCT Vendor