Best place to buy Cat 5 Cable online?

CaliGirl · Apr 26, 2017

This would be for two fixed varifocal Dahuas mounted on the same tree at max or near max cat5e cable run of 300ft.

I imagine I need to run two sets of cables bc one cable can't be split to run two cameras? I have no easy access to power where the cameras will be, hence the need for Poe. I hear the other option is to use a powerline Ethernet adapter. And that would allow me to run a much much shorter direct burial line but then I need to find power inside the guest house and run the cable outside and wasn't sure if I need another POE+ injector to power each camera. And wasn't sure if that guest house is on the same 120v power line and whether they would be able to talk to each other if not. Either way, this sound more complex and less reliable the just running two very long cables out to the cameras and keeping all the power coming from my Dahua POE switch.

We have a fair amount of thunderstorms and lightning here, although never been hit nearby that I know about. It sounds like a surge protector for each nice outdoor camera on a tree is in order now.

CaliGirl · Apr 26, 2017

I'm in CA so maybe that would work out. But ya, hard to beat free shipping on Amazon these days. Will price out mono piece today.

Solar Deity · Apr 26, 2017

zero-degrees said:
Location, Location, Location. The only downside to Monoprice is they ship/distribute only out of CA, so the further you go east the more expensive (NJ is farthest US shipping zone from them via UPS/FedEx). Obviously the closer to the west coast the cheaper shipping will be.

Went to San Francisco once, for a wedding. The thing I remember most of The City by the Bay was In and Out Burger! Went 3 times in the 4 days we were there. Loved everything about the west coast. Look forward to going back some day.

SD

Additionally, to be fair, the Cat6 from Monoprice weighs at least twice as much as the Cat5e from Ebay.

Fastb · Apr 26, 2017

CaliGirl said:
It sounds like a surge protector for each nice outdoor camera on a tree is in order now.

That would protect the camera from a surge coming up the cable.

Also consider a surge going down the cable in the other direction, towards the switch, NVR, home lan, etc.

That long cable run could be considered an antenna. A big electric field, created by lightening, induces voltage surges on the cable.....

Fastb

NoloC · Apr 26, 2017

So in Silicon Valley you should be tripping over data cable on every corner!

Your concern about Amazon is a wise one. Lots of counterfit products on Amazon these days and they are doing little to regulate.

I only have experience with Belden Cable from years of building out Broadcast/TV stations. Essentially these have become data centers. Belden actually sweep tests their cables and certifies the performance. Not sure about Monoprice other than folks here like it but I don't know what type of testing has been done. Maybe someone will chime in as I am really curious. Very good pricing.

You can buy Belden from Anixter and Graybar among others. I know they have facilities in Sacramento as well as others.

Here's a link to the distributor part of the Belden website. Even if you don't buy the cable from them, cable nerds will enjoy the tutorials and data on the site. They are the gold standard.

Good luck!

looney2ns · Apr 26, 2017

Ok, got a question about Monoprice cable. I have my SD59225U-HNI installed and been running for a couple of weeks now. I'm disappointed in the cams picture performance. I've messed with the cam settings almost daily, but I can't get the picture quality back to what I remember it being when it was inside being tested.

I used shielded Cat5e 24awg from Monoprice. I've replaced the male connectors on both ends of the cable, because I suspected the first crimp job wasn't up to snuff. Used monprice Rj45's. Didn't make any difference on the picture. I used premade patch cable when the cam was inside for testing.

I'm using 15fps, and 6144bitrate. When viewing the video in chrome w/IEtab, the bitrate stays basically at or above the 6144 I have set, with drops to 5700Kbps

When replacing the Rj45's, I noticed that the twist's in the cable don't appear uniform. Some colors are twisted more than others. Is this a problem?

Cable run is about 55-60ft to this cam. Cam is powered with the power brick that it came with via 14awg.

Tried to upload a video example, but Youtube doesn't like the MP4 that webui generates, and fails to process.

So how much can cable problems screw up the picture? How can I test the cable, as it's now in a very hard to access place?

Here is a sample of the cable twists.

zero-degrees · Apr 26, 2017

looney2ns said:
, I noticed that the twist's in the cable don't appear uniform.

They are NOT supposed to be. Each color pair has a different twist pattern which is also why you are supposed to follow standard color code/termination standards. When you go outside the standards you screw with the cables designed attenuation.

Here is a good technical explanation vs. my basic "don't screw with attenuation" explanation.
Some interesting twists about Ethernet cabling - TechRepublic

Akguy25 · Apr 26, 2017

looney2ns said:
Ok, got a question about Monoprice cable. I have my SD59225U-HNI installed and been running for a couple of weeks now. I'm disappointed in the cams picture performance. I've messed with the cam settings almost daily, but I can't get the picture quality back to what I remember it being when it was inside being tested.

I used shielded Cat5e 24awg from Monoprice. I've replaced the male connectors on both ends of the cable, because I suspected the first crimp job wasn't up to snuff. Used monprice Rj45's. Didn't make any difference on the picture. I used premade patch cable when the cam was inside for testing.

I'm using 15fps, and 6144bitrate. When viewing the video in chrome w/IEtab, the bitrate stays basically at or above the 6144 I have set, with drops to 5700Kbps

When replacing the Rj45's, I noticed that the twist's in the cable don't appear uniform. Some colors are twisted more than others. Is this a problem?

Cable run is about 55-60ft to this cam. Cam is powered with the power brick that it came with via 14awg.

Tried to upload a video example, but Youtube doesn't like the MP4 that webui generates, and fails to process.

So how much can cable problems screw up the picture? How can I test the cable, as it's now in a very hard to access place?

Here is a sample of the cable twists.

View attachment 17763

Different twist patters IS correct. They are not supposed to be the same

NoloC · Apr 26, 2017

At that length and bit rate a wet string would work.

Depends on what you mean by performance but it is just 1s and 0s. So no analog type degradation can occur to the picture quality, I think.
If the cable were bad you would have drop outs or complete failure. I don't think h264 fails gracefully by reducing resolution like JPEG2000 or other wavelet compression schemes. I'm sure I'll be corrected here though if I am wrong!

looney2ns · Apr 26, 2017

zero-degrees said:
They are NOT supposed to be. Each color pair has a different twist pattern which is also why you are supposed to follow standard color code/termination standards. When you go outside the standards you screw with the cables designed attenuation.

Here is a good technical explanation vs. my basic "don't screw with attenuation" explanation.
Some interesting twists about Ethernet cabling - TechRepublic

Ok, I just never noticed it before while terminating other cat5e I guess. I used T568a.

I thought I had read somewhere that data corruption could cause picture issue's, thats' what I get for thinkin.

Thanks all.

tigerwillow1 · Apr 26, 2017

If you're doing direct burial, I don't see any advantage to a junction box on the buried end of the conduit. I think it's better for it to be open so any water can run out. My main goal for conduits is that they have a continuous downhill slope so there can't be a water-filled section that won't drain.

CaliGirl · Apr 26, 2017

Fastb said:
That would protect the camera from a surge coming up the cable.

Also consider a surge going down the cable in the other direction, towards the switch, NVR, home lan, etc.

That long cable run could be considered an antenna. A big electric field, created by lightening, induces voltage surges on the cable.....

Sorry don't mean to beat a dead horse but want to get the lightening protection figured out so I can order it. I'm using a Dahua 8 port POE+ switch. There is a screw on the side, perceivably for grounding. Where do I ground this to? Can I but a 120v male pigtail and only connect the ground portion to the Dahua box and plug that into my normal power outlet nearby? and it also says it has "Lightning Protection
Common Mode 4KV and Differential Mode 2KV" Would that work for surge protection or do I need an ethernet surge protector for each camera in front of the switch? There are so many different ones to pick from, do they all handle POE+ running through them ok and not slow down your data from the cameras?. Seems like that will be a big mess of extra wires and if the Dahua switch can handle the lighting Protection on its own for each camera plugged in, that would be ideal.

CaliGirl · Apr 26, 2017

tigerwillow1 said:
If you're doing direct burial, I don't see any advantage to a junction box on the buried end of the conduit. I think it's better for it to be open so any water can run out. My main goal for conduits is that they have a continuous downhill slope so there can't be a water-filled section that won't drain.

Great point, I'll leave it open instead of the conduit turning into an icicle in the winter if water were to get in and not drain.

Fastb · Apr 26, 2017

CaliGirl,

That POE switch gets 48V + and -. But that barrel connector for the 48V doesn't have the 3rd conductor, ie: the earth ground.
That earth gnd screw should be connected to a good earth ground. ie: Stake in the ground, plumbing in the house, or the 3rd prong of an AC outlet. All will work (sorted from excellent to good)
Sorry, with surge protection, no white and black. That Dahua POE switch will handle 4kV common, 2kV differential. Other protection solutions go higher or lower. 4kV won't handle a direct or even very close lightening strike. But you have to weigh the risks (how common is lightening) and and what you're protecting (if lightening surge takes out a camera or POE switch, they can be replaced)

That 3 prong plug could provide the ground connection to your POE switch. Make sure you deal with the black and white wire (tape 'em up seperately)

That's the most important surge protection for your installation, IMHO.
Surges to the cameras will be common mode. Assuming the camera is not grounded to earth (it won't be since you're using POE), providing protection is a distant second to the POE switch.

Yes, there are tons of surge protectors out there. Like I said, "surge protection" isn't black and white. I don't use 'em at cameras, so no advice on models or vendors...

@looney2ns deals with serious lightning in Indiana, he may have more pragmatic guidance than this Seattle guy!

And check this thread, it goes into surge suppression in detail.
Who uses Surge Suppressor?

Fastb

looney2ns · Apr 27, 2017

I've always used APC surge protectors at home and at my old business. Before doing that, I had several things fried from lightning. Afterwards, much much less problems.

Some have suggested the Ubiquiti surge protectors for cameras. These have nayrs seal of approval: Amazon.com: Ethernet Surge Protector -Outdoor- for PoE+ Gigabit 1000Mbs - LAN Network Thunder Lighting Surge Protection Suppressor/Arrester - TP303 ...: Computers & Accessories

or: Amazon.com: Ubiquiti Networks ETH-SP Poe External Surge Suppressor: Home Audio & Theater

zero-degrees · Apr 27, 2017

looney2ns said:
Any cable buried in conduit should be treated as if it was being directly buried without the conduit. Hence, use direct bury cable.

I'll have to disagree with you here Looney. If the entire run is in conduit and at no point goes into a direct bury senario there is no reason for the added expense of direct bury cable. An example of this is electrical standards which are some of the strictest rules/regulations and even NEMA doesn't require bury rated cable if placed in conduit. There is honestly no added feature or benefit to incurring the additional expense of placing bury cable into conduit. Obviously it's not going to hurt anything but you surly won't gain anything other than additional expense.

looney2ns · Apr 27, 2017

zero-degrees said:
I'll have to disagree with you here Looney. If the entire run is in conduit and at no point goes into a direct bury senario there is no reason for the added expense of direct bury cable. An example of this is electrical standards which are some of the strictest rules/regulations and even NEMA doesn't require bury rated cable if placed in conduit. There is honestly no added feature or benefit to incurring the additional expense of placing bury cable into conduit. Obviously it's not going to hurt anything but you surly won't gain anything other than additional expense.

Gotcha, I'd always heard that you couldn't depend on the conduit to stay dry long term. Due to condensation, and any breaks in the conduit that might occur, etc. I stand corrected.

zero-degrees · Apr 27, 2017

looney2ns said:
Due to condensation, and any breaks in the conduit that might occur, etc. I stand corrected.

Always a possibility sir and you are correct in these possibilities. Just in most eyes doesn't justify the added expense and in 99% of cases even with condensation and a possible crack the cable will still survive. Most of the times in a conduit failure resulting in cable failure bury rated cable still would not have saved it. Solid points above though for sure!

CaliGirl · Apr 27, 2017

I am taking all of these suggestions into account and learning a ton here!! I updated my schematic/plan and posted it on my main thread here

tigerwillow1 · Apr 27, 2017

My assumption (believe at your own risk!) is that non-burial cat-5/6 cable has a waterproof jacket, and has no disadvantage with wetness over burial cable. I think it's also safe to assume that any buried conduit is at risk of getting water in it that will never drain from low spots. A few years after I bought my house I exposed a ~2-inch pvc conduit as a side affect of chasing a irrigation system leak. This conduit contains a 100 amp feeder to an outbuilding, and right where I exposed it there was an open gap between two PVC sections. Water obviously got in there, and the pipe was packed with dirt several inches each direction from the open spot. Shoddy workmanship, no question about that, but also a real-world example. (My forensic conclusion is that the electrical contractor installed the conduit above code-required depth without gluing the PVC joint, then the landscape contractor nailed it with a tiller). I saved a picture:

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Best place to buy Cat 5 Cable online?

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