How can I improve on this facial image?

Mike.in.Minnesota

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
99
Reaction score
23
Here is a 4k image of Santiago taken from a 4k HD security camera on top of a skyscraper. Zoom in on the marina on the left and you can see yachts and sailboats, though pixelated. You can even see the stripes in the parking lot. If you can see them at between 1-1.5 miles, zooming in 40 foot would most likely give excellent results? No?

Another suggestion is a 4k HD 360 camera. As an example, Here's a link with an example video. BI can also so this via it's software taking in the raw feed from the camera.
 

Attachments

Kawboy12R

Known around here
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
1,771
Reaction score
609
Apples vs oranges, maybe apples vs bananas. Stationary pictures in bright light are absolutely and completely different from taking pictures at night of moving targets. A hundred times harder. No contest. The high pixel count of a 4k camera makes it relatively useless compared to a 1080p low light camera on moving targets at night.

I like a camera that's good watching my neighbours walk by 70 feet away in the daytime, but that's not the reason I have a camera system. It's the night bastards most people on here care about. Getting a good face in the daytime of people that come up to your door is child's play. The art comes in controlling or at least predicting the three key variables at night- angle, distance, lighting. If you don't know where they're going to be and you can't light it up enough for a fast shutter speed then it's just a game of luck and the 4k shit can stay in your closet on a GoPro mount. Hi-res cams have their uses but giving a good crisp picture of moving targets in a dimly-lit environment is not one of them.
 

Ajpepe72

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
120
Reaction score
14
To be fair after reviewing, the black and white night image is far better than the colour image mainly due to ambient lighting which is ok zoomed out but worse zoomed to entrance as the camera then looses the light given by my front door lighting.

So I am going to add more lighting to cover the driveway entrance.
Until then however, how do I get the camera to change to night (b/w) mode as it doesn’t seem to do it automatically even if I have sensitivity set to high for the autoswitching ? I’m guessing that the ambient light available must be above the threshold that the camera needs to switch.
 

Kawboy12R

Known around here
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
1,771
Reaction score
609
Make sure you're on Normal profile in the camera. Also make sure there's no white light shining directly at the cam. There's also a day/night switch sensitivity setting but I forget exactly where it is.
 

actran

Getting comfortable
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
784
Reaction score
697
To be fair after reviewing, the black and white night image is far better than the colour image mainly due to ambient lighting which is ok zoomed out but worse zoomed to entrance as the camera then looses the light given by my front door lighting.

So I am going to add more lighting to cover the driveway entrance.
Until then however, how do I get the camera to change to night (b/w) mode as it doesn’t seem to do it automatically even if I have sensitivity set to high for the autoswitching ? I’m guessing that the ambient light available must be above the threshold that the camera needs to switch.
@Ajpepe72 If the camera is not switching to night mode as desired, 1 approach is to configure the camera to switch between day/night mode on a schedule. Go into the camera web config screen for a page on schedule.

A better approach is to do it based on sunset/sunrise. You can try this: Automatically select Day or Night profile based on whether it's Day or Night?

If you are using BlueIris, you can do it via BI schedule (with sunset/sunrise as well)

Below is a Dahua web config UI:

Screen Shot 2017-12-15 at 7.56.19 AM.png
 
Last edited:

Ajpepe72

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
120
Reaction score
14
Great thanks for that, I’m sure I set it in the Dahua profile page previously but must have made an error as I’ve just redone it and it’s switching fine.
I do like the colour option though so my next task will be to light my driveway up as if a spaceship is landing .. lol
 

Ajpepe72

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
120
Reaction score
14
Installed a 22w led floodlight with dusk/dawn sensor on corner of house to improve lighting at entrance, first impressions are it’s improved the image quite a lot.
Light installed :


First two clips are floodlight off :

And with floodlight on:

The floodlight has also meant I can run my overview cam in colour as well with a good image I think
 
Last edited:

CCTVCam

Known around here
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
2,660
Reaction score
3,480
With the 5231 with LED Flood on zoomed, you still have the room to zoom a bit further if you centre the camera. On the right you only have the edge of the gate post whereas on the left you have the whole gatepost and front of the van. You don't need the extra width beyond the edge of the gatepost as the other cameras will show what happens, so personally I'd tighten the zoomed shot a little more so you just have the edge of each gatepost. The tighter the shot, the more pixels where they count.

I too recommend LED Floodlights generally, especially if you choose a "Daylight" colour temperature so as to render natural colours. Never used them with CCTV, but have used them for security lights for years. Just beware that Daylight is specified by different manufacturers at anywhere between 4,500-7500K!!! In reality, Daylight is more naturally rendered at around 5,500K in my opinion. That said, you also rely on the accuracy of the quoted specs when choosing. However, too high and the light will be too blue and unnatural and the luminosity (brightness) reduced. Too low, and it will be towards the yellow end of the spectrum. Just right, and it will replicate Daylight. I use Wilko LED Daylight bulbs in my house and the light quality is fantastic. Unfortunately, they don't make floodlights. Mine came from ebay, but they can be hit and miss for colour and quality.
 

Ajpepe72

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
120
Reaction score
14
The light from the led is more of a bright white than a natural light but I am happy with its effect.
Unfortunately, the camera is on full zoom now and I wanted to keep the very front corner of the van as this is the natural route a intruder would appear from if they hopped the wall rather than used the entrance.
 

CCTV Guy

n3wb
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
11
Reaction score
13
Location
Bakersfield, CA
I'd use the colour cam for overview. That way you get the colour information you want over a wide area and don't care so much about exact detail because you aren't going to get it anyway. Cover just the minimum amount with the other cam zoomed in to put more pixels on target and add more light, possibly with a big wide angle (basically matching the cam's FOV) external illuminator mounted high and aimed a bit higher than intuition might suggest to prevent washing out close faces. It'll even up the lighting balance of the scene and put more light on faces at a bit of a distance. Either that or point it in the center of the scene but speed up exposure time to darken down the washout. I consider 1/60th a practical maximum exposure time. I find 1/30th of a second produces blurry faces unless folks almost stop moving. If they walk sideways through the scene up fairly close where you'd get lots of pixels on target and keep going? Forget it. Tons of blurry pixels. Even someone stopped and jiggling your door handle will be moving a bit. The video might be pretty good but a still picture from a screengrab wants a frozen face.
As someone who does this for a living, I can't agree enough with the above. Use the overview camera to get the color info and the zoomed camera for the detail at night, even if it is IR. As suggested, get a decent supplemental IR flood that doesn't create a hotspot in the middle (similar to this one: https://www.amazon.com/Univivi-Infrared-Illuminator-Waterproof-Security/dp/B01G6K407Q/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=CD4JB5YNK80D888JGDEH). Mount and adjust it as suggested. This way you can increase your shutter speed to provide a clear picture of a moving subject.

As a professional, I can tell you I focus on pinch points, like your driveway entrance, and zoom in (optically) as much as possible. For example, at a bank there may be a camera covering the back of the teller area (my favorite application for a 360 camera). But each teller station will have its own camera, covering about 12 inches of counter space in front of the teller window to about 6'8" in height on the customer side of the teller station and angled from the side, soas not to have the teller block the view and to make out facial features better. As well, these cameras will be mounted as low as practically possible, to better capture the face of someone wearing a hat/cap. There will be cameras at each door, including an overhead camera and pin-hole cameras in the jam or a camera in a height strip mounted at 5'5" to capture faces at close range for maximum detail. In this case, the door, and even the teller window, are pinch points. narrow areas that, by design, cause people to stand or walk in a constricted areas.

It's all about capturing detail. Don't be fooled into thinking what you see on TV is real. If the detail isn't there, no amount of digital zoom or enhancement can bring back something that doesn't exist. What people seem to forget is that it doesn't matter if you see what the person did, if you can't identify the person.
 
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.

RH-Atl

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
63
Reaction score
28
dahua also make really great quality LED lights. They list them as IR but they're really 5500-6500 white lights. I have two of the 7W (PFM511) and the 15W (PFM510). The 7W is great for most areas. The 15W does reach out better for longer distances ( over 40 ft/12m).
Small overall size (4" sq x 2" thick 511 5x4 for the 510), ALL cast metal housings (no thin sheet metal), Great light patterns, No Hot spots. Works with 110 VAC and up. Auto on/off dusk sensors.

DAHUA and only 7 watts! $ 33 bucks... hard to find better.

Dahua 5 LED DH-PFM511 CCTV Camera assistance light Aluminum IP66 die-cast housing LED Fill Light for ip camera
Dahua 5 LED DH PFM511 CCTV Camera assistance light Aluminum IP66 die cast housing LED Fill Light for ip camera-in CCTV Accessories from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
 

CCTVCam

Known around here
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
2,660
Reaction score
3,480
It's worth noting for anyone looking for a spot light that's not Dahua, that the lights above are diffused by a semi opaque ie translucent / patterned front "glass", as most ordinary security lights employ clear glass.

Wonder if there's anyway of triggering them with the camera instead of permanently on.
 

RH-Atl

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
63
Reaction score
28
@CCTVCam it should be possible to wire directly in on the photo cell (dusk/dawn sensor) connections.
Supply the same voltage from your trigger. There is no delay or warm up phase. Just on and off.
You wouldn't want your cameras to auto change modes but it should work good if cam is set to either Color or B/W mode.
 

RH-Atl

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
63
Reaction score
28
Here's some photos to show both the PFM 510 and PFM 511 models as compared to each other.
The tree marked with arrow in the far back is 80 yards out.
The closer tree is about 35'
 

Ajpepe72

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
120
Reaction score
14
So are these white lights ?
This is the one I bought, I have it on a timer switch so it comes on at 10pm and goes off at sunrise.
 

RH-Atl

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
63
Reaction score
28
@Ajpepe72 Based on your earlier photos they look white to me. See if you can find a color range spec. in documentation. Ideally dahua cams like the 5500-6500k range.
Other ranges work but the 5500-6500 gives the cams what they likes best.
Cameras are "light collecting devices", feed them well and they preform well.
Plus like @Kawboy12R wrote in another post good lighting is one of your best deterents.
what was the cost of your 22w led and timer?
 

Ajpepe72

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
120
Reaction score
14
It’s cool white (5000k), the light was £20 and the fused spur with built in 7 day timer was £23.
 

looney2ns

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Messages
15,521
Reaction score
22,657
Location
Evansville, In. USA
Here's some photos to show both the PFM 510 and PFM 511 models as compared to each other.
The tree marked with arrow in the far back is 80 yards out.
The closer tree is about 35'

What are the knob adjustments on the side for?
 
Top