aliexpress starlight?

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

I found this Dahua 6MP starlight cctv IPC-HFW4636M-I1 59,61:
Dahua 6MP starlight cctv IPC HFW4636M I1 H.265I R50m IP67 telecamera ip di sicurezza con staffa multi lingua non POE in Dahua 6MP starlight cctv IPC-HFW4636M-I1 H.265I R50m IP67 telecamera ip di sicurezza con staffa multi-lingua non POEda Telecamere di sorveglianza su AliExpress.com | Gruppo Alibaba

At quite the same price there is the similar 4MP IPC-HFW4431M-I1 53,90€:
Originale Dahua IPC HFW4431M I1 4MP Fotocamera Starlight built in POE IP67 IR50M cctv con staffa DH IPC HFW4431M I1 in Originale Dahua IPC-HFW4431M-I1 4MP Fotocamera Starlight built-in POE IP67 IR50M cctv con staffa DH-IPC-HFW4431M-I1da Telecamere di sorveglianza su AliExpress.com | Gruppo Alibaba

How they compare to a Dahua IPC-HDBW4233R-AS Starlight 52€:
Dahua IPC HDBW4233R AS Starlight Macchina Fotografica 2MP IK10 IP67 IR50M built in slot SD interfaccia audio ed allarme HDBW4233R AS con poe in Dahua IPC-HDBW4233R-AS Starlight Macchina Fotografica 2MP IK10 IP67 IR50M built-in slot SD interfaccia audio ed allarme HDBW4233R-AS con poeda Telecamere di sorveglianza su AliExpress.com | Gruppo Alibaba

And of course to the classic 5231 @ more than double the price?
So, 4636, 4431, 4233... are starlight comparable to 5231?

On aliexpress I found a lot of models I don't find in dahua security web site to compare if the specs are correct...
How do you know if they report specs correctly?

giomania · Jan 19, 2018

You have to be careful not to get a Chinese model. Hit the link in my signature for advice on where to purchase Dahua cameras.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

Very interesting file! Thank you.
But I thought: if I buy a Chinese model but with International firmware, I should go well, isn't it?
I will not update the firmware in the future, so I must check/ask the shipped version has not bad bugs, but apart that, it should be fine.
I mean, IF the 4233R is a real starlight with English FW, I'll pay it 52€, instead from Andy I'll get a starlight at not least than 100€ or a 5231 at 140€: I'll pay quite 2x-3x times!
That's a big amount on several cameras...

SquareEyes · Jan 19, 2018

giomania said:
You have to be careful not to get a Chinese model. Hit the link in my signature for advice on where to purchase Dahua cameras.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would be easier for everyone if you just posted the link.

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

Or did you mean "Chinese" models are crappy, even if starlight ones?

Crazykiller · Jan 19, 2018

frank10 said:
Or did you mean "Chinese" models are crappy, even if starlight ones?

Yes.

I also tried these Chinese models. I tell you, it’s worth to buy real international models instead of Chinese ones with hacked firmware. Even if the firmware should be free from bugs (i don’t know any) you might run into problems with the hacked firmware. You don’t know if there are any additional backdoors added, or if the firmwares behavior is different, even if the release number is the same. You could also often read that these cams turn into Chinese after a factory reset. And believe me, in future you’ll be happy if you are able to update your cam.
For some cams you’ll find specs on the Chinese Dahua site. And most of these are more light sensitive then other noname cams, but don’t have a starvis chip.

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

Thank you, ok, I understand your thoughts.
But:
1) backdoors are solved by firewall
2) firmware... ok could be buggy on some advanced function, but all I need is the stream, all functions will be made by BI, so fw updates aren't a big deal. Chinese restore... yes that's bad, but even this... using Chrome with translation you solved (I already tried it on a Chinese-only cam)! And all I need are basic config, not that difficult to set, and once set you'll forget it.
3) chip sensitive: THIS is bad! I would want to compare to real starlight, not similar! Anyway they claim 1/2.8'' 0,002 lux... too much to be true.

Could we say anyway this 4233R isn't a real starlight but is better than other normal international Dahua 4MP?

Long story short:
I need to get the best *cheapest* AND good Dahua cameras, so I need some compromises...

Any other model to advice around 50-70€?
Better to look at 2MP instead of 4?
OR I could also get a normal model and put some led spotlights on night (also as a deterrent) and using cams only in daytime: should this way be ininfluent having a starlight? Is it important only on IR and nightime?

tigerwillow1 · Jan 19, 2018

I can give a bit of feedback. I'm running a mix of chinese HFW-4431M-I2, HFW4431R-Z, and the international 5231. Image-wise, the 4mp chinese models have a slightly better image than the 2mp 5231 in daylight conditions (I acknowledge there is disagreement on this). At night, the 5231 is clearly superior. The chinese models generally work ok, but you must be able to directly access their web gui to use them effectively. Don't count on configuring them through a Dahua nvr. Some work well via the nvr, and some don't. With BI, I'm guessing this is a non-issue.

I had the same dilemma of making the compromise with the number of cameras, quality, and cost. If I were spending somebody else's money I'd have all international models. In my case I have a lot of space to cover an wouldn't want to trade my group of chinese models for half as many international models. The chinese cameras are a great value for what they do, yet I think calling them "starlight" is not correct. Another compromise point is the fixed lens 2mp international camera with the same sensor as the 5231, in between the price of the chinese models and the 5231. Take a look here: --Eco-savvy 3.0 ePoE 2 Megapixel - Shop Cheap --Eco-savvy 3.0 ePoE 2 Megapixel from China --Eco-savvy 3.0 ePoE 2 Megapixel Suppliers at Empire Technology Co., Ltd on Aliexpress.com

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

Thank you tigerwillow1!
That was exactly what I needed to know! So, the options now are: get a 4MP chinese english FW and use always at daytime or a 2MP starlight to use also with IR at nightime.
I thought also another option:
I could try the Andy route with starlight, BUT asking him if he can ship them without DHL. I see on other models DHL can charge about 40€, and in these starlight cams he included it. Maybe if I ask him a normal 60gg shipment he could lower the price correspondently!
Did anyone do this?

tigerwillow1 · Jan 19, 2018

I don't want to accidentally leave a wrong impression. The chinese cameras aren't useless at night, the 5231 is just better. At the margin the 5231 picks up things that aren't seen by the 4431, and there's less motion blur.

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

Yes I understood. But I think I would use them better with led spotlights.

Revlus · Jan 19, 2018

frank10 said:
Yes I understood. But I think I would use them better with led spotlights.

Sounds like you are making a "lot" of justifications to get the cheaper chinese models. Are all those compromises worth the difference in price? I guess that's the question to be answered.

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

I think I'm in the situation of tigerwillow1: I can't buy all of starlight cams I need, simple as that.
If normal cams are good on daytime, I think I'm not loosing that much.
And *maybe* it's better than IR starlight, because of the deterrent led spotlights. I may be wrong, but I feel more secure on an illuminated area.

Crazykiller · Jan 19, 2018

There are also 2MP Chinese models like my HDBW4233R-AS. It has a better nightview compared to the 4MP ones. But I prefer the turret than the dome and also the included microphone. If you want sound you’ll also have to add an external mic to this one. And the fixed lens turret HDW4231EM-ASE isn’t that much expensive than the Chinese ones. And if you need a lot of them @EMPIRETECANDY will do a discount for bulk order, I’m sure.

frank10 · Jan 19, 2018

Thank you for the advise.

mat200 · Jan 20, 2018

frank10 said:
Or did you mean "Chinese" models are crappy, even if starlight ones?

Hi Frank10,

As I do not read Chinese it is hard for me to find the data sheets for those Chinese cameras.

One thing to note, besides the firmware discussion we've had here so far, is that to make a more affordable camera for the Chinese market, some additional compromises have to be made.

For example compromises with RAM, Sensor Chip, DSP, main CPU chip, case, and possible microSD card slots.

In one of the 3 products you listed, there was only one which showed how much RAM was included: Stoccaggio:128G ( iirc the international model cameras I picked up have at least 2x that, example the HDW4231EM-ASE model has RAM/ROM 256MB/32MB )

In some instances, part of the case is made out of plastic instead of metal.

So there is more than just firmware - and with the numerous models out there - it gets rather complex to really evaluate your options well - and if you pick a model which is not popular enough outside of China you may not easily find support even in forums like this for that particular model.

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