Upgrading Camera Question for new (newbie) setup

soosmna

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Hello Everyone! Just want to start off by saying this forum is a gold mine of info. I've learned so much in the short amount of time I've lurked here. Thank you to everyone for that!

I have been looking into buying a new camera system after my house got robbed few weeks ago. I think I am going to go with Dahua after tons of reading online. I asked Andy for a quote, I think I'll get the NVR from him and the cameras from Ali due to my small budget. With a new HDD I'm pushing $480 and thats more than enough spending for a poor student. They robbed me of everything valuable I had so not much to spend/lose at the moment. I hope it's no offense to Andy for getting cameras elsewhere.

I was thinking: 4MP is more than enough for me I think.
(3) IPC-HFW4431R-Zbullets to go around the main parts of the house
(1) IPC-HDW4433C-A (3.6mm) Turret for the front door/porch.
from Andy: NVR4104-P-4KS2

The description on Ali and Andy both said don't update/can't update these cameras.
- With not being able to update them, will this lead to problems in the future?
- Will I need to be careful of not accidentally clicking update somewhere and bricking the cameras?
- Is the NVR still ok to update?
- Should I go with this setup or do you guys recommend something better at same price range?


Thanks again in advance.


Alan
 

fenderman

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Do you think the camera set-up is good though?
dont buy china region cameras....you are asking for trouble..for good low light look at the dahua starlight cameras...starting at 100.....or you can be cheap and waste hours of your time later and still have poor image...your choice.
 

tigerwillow1

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The biggest headache I had with the 4431 series cameras was related to them having different firmware versions, which led to them not working the same for configuration via the nvr, and needing different web components to access them directly. They can to an extent be upgraded, which I have done, take a look at the thread Dahua Firmware Mod Kit + Modded Dahua Firmware . I'm having good luck with these cameras but will admit that it has taken an extra investment of time to get it all integrated smoothly. Since I have more time than money, that's ok. One big caveat, however, is when using chinese market cameras I believe it's absolutely necessary to be able to log on to them directly for configuration and troubleshooting. After a quick peek, it looks to me like the nvr you're getting has a built in poe switch, which makes it more difficult to log on to the cameras. Not impossible, but takes extra time and hassle. If you have compatibility problems between the nvr and cameras, you should get support from Andy if they're all international models. If you have issues with the chinese cameras, you'll be on your own or hope to get help from forum members.

I get it that you're maxed out on the money, but take a moment to think if you really want to get an nvr without any option to add another camera in the future. I wouldn't expect accidentally hitting update would harm the camera, because you also have to point it at a firmware file before anything can be loaded. It's ok to update the nvr. There's a rumor that some future nvr firmware will refuse to work with chinese market cameras. I have no clue if it's true or not.
 

soosmna

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The biggest headache I had with the 4431 series cameras was related to them having different firmware versions, which led to them not working the same for configuration via the nvr, and needing different web components to access them directly. They can to an extent be upgraded, which I have done, take a look at the thread Dahua Firmware Mod Kit + Modded Dahua Firmware . I'm having good luck with these cameras but will admit that it has taken an extra investment of time to get it all integrated smoothly. Since I have more time than money, that's ok. One big caveat, however, is when using chinese market cameras I believe it's absolutely necessary to be able to log on to them directly for configuration and troubleshooting. After a quick peek, it looks to me like the nvr you're getting has a built in poe switch, which makes it more difficult to log on to the cameras. Not impossible, but takes extra time and hassle. If you have compatibility problems between the nvr and cameras, you should get support from Andy if they're all international models. If you have issues with the chinese cameras, you'll be on your own or hope to get help from forum members.

I get it that you're maxed out on the money, but take a moment to think if you really want to get an nvr without any option to add another camera in the future. I wouldn't expect accidentally hitting update would harm the camera, because you also have to point it at a firmware file before anything can be loaded. It's ok to update the nvr. There's a rumor that some future nvr firmware will refuse to work with chinese market cameras. I have no clue if it's true or not.
I think I need to do more research then. You guys are mentioning that these are china region cameras. Is that because they are from Ali or just the specific model numbers? Are the ones Andy gives different? He also suggested the NVR model, so I choose that due to his expertise.

With 4 cameras (4MP), 1TB Drive, And an NVR my max budget at the moment is $500. I know this is the Dahua forum, but should I try my luck with another brand with my budget? Is Hik going to be cheaper for same quality?


Thank you again for all the responses. I truly appreciate it.
 

tigerwillow1

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The china region cameras are built differently. Generally, they have a plastic case while the international models have a metal case. The mounting bases are also different. I don't know about the internals. I'll just say that to me (i.e. opinion), the image quality and firmware are just as good as the international models that have the same sensor. The international starlight 2 mp models widely recommended here have a larger, more light sensitive image sensor than the 4431 series 4 mp models. Hopefully somebody can confirm this, my belief is that the international models are identical to the US models, minus the Dahua logo, and with no factory warranty. From my own limited experience I'd tell you to stick with dahua. I started out with two 4 mp rebranded hikvision cameras in the just-under-$200 price range. For a few months I kept wondering why the image was so soft. Out of desperation I ordered one each of a sub-$100 chinese market dahua and hikvision 4 mp camera. The hikvision image was worse than what I had, while the dahua HFW-4431M stomped all over the image quality of my original cameras. I have a couple of zoom 4431R-Zs and rate their image quality slightly lower than the fixed lens 4431M. The 4431M was what I expected in the first place from a 4 mp camera, and I expanded mainly with them. I always add the disclaimer that I'm talking about specific models and am not making a sweeping overall product statement.
 

soosmna

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The china region cameras are built differently. Generally, they have a plastic case while the international models have a metal case. The mounting bases are also different. I don't know about the internals. I'll just say that to me (i.e. opinion), the image quality and firmware are just as good as the international models that have the same sensor. The international starlight 2 mp models widely recommended here have a larger, more light sensitive image sensor than the 4431 series 4 mp models. Hopefully somebody can confirm this, my belief is that the international models are identical to the US models, minus the Dahua logo, and with no factory warranty. From my own limited experience I'd tell you to stick with dahua. I started out with two 4 mp rebranded hikvision cameras in the just-under-$200 price range. For a few months I kept wondering why the image was so soft. Out of desperation I ordered one each of a sub-$100 chinese market dahua and hikvision 4 mp camera. The hikvision image was worse than what I had, while the dahua HFW-4431M stomped all over the image quality of my original cameras. I have a couple of zoom 4431R-Zs and rate their image quality slightly lower than the fixed lens 4431M. The 4431M was what I expected in the first place from a 4 mp camera, and I expanded mainly with them. I always add the disclaimer that I'm talking about specific models and am not making a sweeping overall product statement.
Do you know if Andy sends out the Chinese or international versions? It seems like from what I'm reading elsewhere too, that I should avoid Ali. Is Andy my only legit affordable choice? lol

It blows my mind that a 2MP camera is better than the 4MP. I've seen some videos of the starlight, but cant remember which one. The quality was amazing and I thought it was some 4k video. My goal is to be able to read a movie licence plate clearly at 30ish feet. If the 2MP starlight can do that and doesn't cost that much more, I think I'd make the jump and stick with 3 cameras for now.

My neighbor had come cameras that got the car when it rolled up to my house. I'm assuming it was Hik, based on the software he was using. But couldn't see the guys face or plate. I want to make sure that doesn't happen again.
 

tigerwillow1

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I "think" everything andy sells is international versions. The reason the 2 mp camera does better in low light is not only the slightly larger sensor, but that there are half the pixels on it. So the 2 mp pixels are over twice the area of the 4 mp pixels allowing them to gather more light. During the day, the 4 mp camera will give a sharper picture if you run it at its max bitrate. I've got one camera dedicated to reading plates at 10 to 20 feet. The big problem I have is that if I configure it to work in one light situation it doesn't work out in another. If I set it up to read front plates in the dark, the lighted rear plates are overexposed and unreadable. When the sun is at an angle to reflect off the plate, it's also overexposed. Fortunately I have a second camera that catches the plates when they are reflecting directly into the the first. You can also get the starlight cameras in fixed focal length. The lens doesn't let quite as much light in, but you have the offsetting advantage of greater depth of field and no focus problem. I'm planning on getting one of those to replace the 4 mp chinese camera doing the plate reading. Andy doesn't have my model in stock and didn't think he'd get it before chinese new year starts, so I have to wait until March to order it.

Aliexpress sometimes works great, and is sometimes a big pain. Andy has proven to be totally reliable and you can communicate via PMs or email, using paypal for the money. He normally ships DHL, with USA delivery in a few days.
 

mat200

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Do you know if Andy sends out the Chinese or international versions? It seems like from what I'm reading elsewhere too, that I should avoid Ali. Is Andy my only legit affordable choice?..
My neighbor had come cameras that got the car when it rolled up to my house. I'm assuming it was Hik, based on the software he was using. But couldn't see the guys face or plate. I want to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Hi Soosmna,

Andy is the recommended choice by most of us who have dealt with various different vendors. He's done a great job and has been very helpful here to those of us needing some help.

Aliexpress is like Ebay - a few great vendors, some good vendors, many OK vendors, some very very bad vendors.

It can be hard to tell who is good without asking others.

We used to be able to go to the dahua international website to tell which models are international models, the website recently has changed and thus makes it difficult.

Andy iirc lists the international models ( most of us typically order the OEM version - no Dahua logo ) which are good solid cameras. Some other vendors list a mix of hacked Chinese version cameras and international models.

The Chinese market cameras tend to be made more affordable, as those in China typically have less money for cameras than we do. Thus you see plastic cases, cheaper chips, less internal memory in the typical Chinese market camera.
 

soosmna

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Thanks for all the great info guys!

I'll definitely be doing more research and maybe get a combination of cameras.
I for sure want the 4MP to catch plates during the day. I live in a very sunny place. I also got robbed during the day and know what car look out for. I think my neighbor tipped off someone with my families usual schedule. They don't know we got a look at what car was used though.
The Starlight I guess will be used for the back and side yards to protect our shed and garage during the night better. Car cant pull up there, so I'll only need to see a person when its darker.


Thanks again everyone!
 

looney2ns

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China Region means they are made for that area of th
Thanks for all the great info guys!

I'll definitely be doing more research and maybe get a combination of cameras.
I for sure want the 4MP to catch plates during the day. I live in a very sunny place. I also got robbed during the day and know what car look out for. I think my neighbor tipped off someone with my families usual schedule. They don't know we got a look at what car was used though.
The Starlight I guess will be used for the back and side yards to protect our shed and garage during the night better. Car cant pull up there, so I'll only need to see a person when its darker.


Thanks again everyone!
Reading plates is an art, go here to readup: LPR
 

GSMarquis

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I am shocked at the quality of the 2mp starlight cams image. I have international and USA Dahua 4k cams. They are amazing in day light, at night the starlight takes it all. Sin happens mostly at night.
 

Purduephotog

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I "think" everything andy sells is international versions. ...

Aliexpress sometimes works great, and is sometimes a big pain. Andy has proven to be totally reliable and you can communicate via PMs or email, using paypal for the money. He normally ships DHL, with USA delivery in a few days.
It's testimonials like this that I started buying cameras from xinray. Much better than the random stuff I've found
 

soosmna

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It's testimonials like this that I started buying cameras from xinray. Much better than the random stuff I've found
How has been your experience with Xinray been?
I was looking into them for awhile. It'll be good to know for the future.
 

Purduephotog

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Got the cam (1 of 2); the 2nd is still in shipment, I waited too long to add it into the order. Immediately after I placed my first order they sent me a message asking (reminding) me that it was the Chinese New Year and they were on Holiday, and then apologized profusely for the delay that would result in shipping.

Prices are perfectly in line with what else is out there, he /they have a good reputation here, and the documentation on the sales sites is complete so there is no doubt what I was getting- so I'm willing to spend a bit extra if need be to continue that support.

Now I've not had anything negative, so others' opinions may vary.
 
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