EMPIRETECANDY
IPCT Vendor
@bigredfish will get some 4K one for his home, i will invite him to post some pics here about working in the night. IP ones and analog two different tech. IP one use Cat5 or 6, but CVI use coaxial cables.
Dahua 4k Starlight with 1/2 sensor (CVI only for now)
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aristobrat
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@EMPIRETECANDY, any guess as to when Dahua will have IP versions of this camera?
EMPIRETECANDY
IPCT Vendor
For the new product plan, they will not tell anything till the releasing. Normally they will show them on the overseas exhibition.
mfish123
Getting the hang of it
This is my first post and I'm still learning so sorry if I'm taking things a bit off topic / too broad. If anyone feels like I hi-jacked this thread I'm more than happy to start a new one and take this post down...
I bought a $400 Zosi 5mp HD-TVI system from Amazon and let's just say I learned the hard way that it's not just about megapixels.
I now want to do it right and get high performance, high resolution, ip cameras. If cost isn't out of control, I figure I might as well go 4K. Can't stand when I see grainy surveillance footage on the evening news and think - how they heck can they id anyone one with that poor image quality so I hope never end up in that situation but don't want to be a hypocrite! I can budget $2,000 for an 8 camera system but would prefer to be closer to $1,500.
I have a residential home with good lighting (motion detecting floods and LED's on all 4 sides) and there is some ambient light from a somewhat nearby street lamp and neighbors so I'd be biased toward higher resolution even if I give up some extreme low light performance.
With that said, would these be good picks for cameras?:
IPC-HDBW2831R-ZS
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS
Here is my thought process and if anyone thinks it's flawed please let tell me: I realize these don't have the starlight rating but still seem to offer good low light performance (good enough for my home). I would imagine when the 4K cameras with the starlight rating comes out they'll probably be a good bit more expensive.
Couldn't I always just add an IR illuminator for relatively cheap if I want more low light performance or is there maybe some downside to doing that?
As far as NVR, would this one be a good match (I want to be able to expand to possibly expand more than 8 cameras in the future): NVR-216MH-C - Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology Co. Ltd.
I have to do more NVR research (have done more research on cameras so far).
At the end of the day, would what I'm proposing above blow the doors off (or at least be noticeably better) than going with something like this, or not necessarily: https://www.lorextechnology.com/4k-ip-camera-system/4k-ultra-hd-ip-nvr-security-camera-system-with-8-ip-cameras/4KHDIP1644NV-1-p
Lastly, it seems like there are some preferred vendors on the forums and I always like to give the "forum guys" business when possible, however purely from a cost perspective (I don't care about long international shipping times) is there any downsides from order via alibaba through a vendor like this?: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Dahua-h-265-IPC-HFW2831T-ZS_60758407393.html
Thanks in advance! and again, if any feels I hi-jacked this thread I'm more than happy to start a new one.
I bought a $400 Zosi 5mp HD-TVI system from Amazon and let's just say I learned the hard way that it's not just about megapixels.
I now want to do it right and get high performance, high resolution, ip cameras. If cost isn't out of control, I figure I might as well go 4K. Can't stand when I see grainy surveillance footage on the evening news and think - how they heck can they id anyone one with that poor image quality so I hope never end up in that situation but don't want to be a hypocrite! I can budget $2,000 for an 8 camera system but would prefer to be closer to $1,500.
I have a residential home with good lighting (motion detecting floods and LED's on all 4 sides) and there is some ambient light from a somewhat nearby street lamp and neighbors so I'd be biased toward higher resolution even if I give up some extreme low light performance.
With that said, would these be good picks for cameras?:
IPC-HDBW2831R-ZS
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS
Here is my thought process and if anyone thinks it's flawed please let tell me: I realize these don't have the starlight rating but still seem to offer good low light performance (good enough for my home). I would imagine when the 4K cameras with the starlight rating comes out they'll probably be a good bit more expensive.
Couldn't I always just add an IR illuminator for relatively cheap if I want more low light performance or is there maybe some downside to doing that?
As far as NVR, would this one be a good match (I want to be able to expand to possibly expand more than 8 cameras in the future): NVR-216MH-C - Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology Co. Ltd.
I have to do more NVR research (have done more research on cameras so far).
At the end of the day, would what I'm proposing above blow the doors off (or at least be noticeably better) than going with something like this, or not necessarily: https://www.lorextechnology.com/4k-ip-camera-system/4k-ultra-hd-ip-nvr-security-camera-system-with-8-ip-cameras/4KHDIP1644NV-1-p
Lastly, it seems like there are some preferred vendors on the forums and I always like to give the "forum guys" business when possible, however purely from a cost perspective (I don't care about long international shipping times) is there any downsides from order via alibaba through a vendor like this?: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Dahua-h-265-IPC-HFW2831T-ZS_60758407393.html
Thanks in advance! and again, if any feels I hi-jacked this thread I'm more than happy to start a new one.
awsum140
Known around here
Read the Cliff Notes in the Wiki at the top of this page. Contact Andy at Empire Security for good pricing and superlative service (contact info in the Cliff Notes).
@mfish123 - I can only say the the Lorex setup you linked is 100% Dahua OEM (Dahua actually bought Lorex out and directly owns them now too). You can find the exact same models from Dahua. There is a big catch though. Lorex strips a good bit of the intelligent functions out of the firmware like tripwire, face recognition, people counting, etc. That being said they do leave in the basic motion detection which for many people is just fine for their needs. As awsum said though, read the Cliff Notes wiki and do also consider buying from Andy.
One thing I'd also strongly suggest is staying with one brand. You linked Dahua Cameras and then a Hikvision NVR. They will work together but not nearly as well as staying with the same brand.
One thing I'd also strongly suggest is staying with one brand. You linked Dahua Cameras and then a Hikvision NVR. They will work together but not nearly as well as staying with the same brand.
mat200
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Welcome @mfish123
Definitely check out the cliff notes that @giomania has assembled for us. He did a great job and they should be one of your first references to get started here.
Do check out the various similar questions others have asked here.
Alibaba != Aliexpress, remember nearly all of the products listed on Alibaba iirc do not include shipping - and are listed there for larger orders from what I can tell.
Re ebay, aliexpress/aliabab, amazon, .. I've seen numerous vendors who have been deceptive with their ads - so be cautious purchasing from random vendors. Recommend going only with vetted vendors.
( see the vendor section here on the forum )
Lorex = Dahua OEM for MOST of their IP PoE kits - there is a NVR we're uncertain who the OEM is right now. Lorex currently strips out the IVS features, and similar with ONVIF on SOME of their cameras.
imho: Unless you're getting a killer deal on a lorex set, you should definitely drop Andy a line and see what he can offer you.
Do take a look at @MixManSC has to state about being about to install the Dahua OEM firmware on the Lorex NVR he picked up! SO far, he's still working to do the same on the cameras he's picked up.
Remember to also check out the recent reviews by members on products.
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EMPIRETECANDY
IPCT Vendor
I thin better to go to IPC-HFW5831E-ZE and IPC-HDW5831R-ZE, this is professional models, and the one you posted is dahua lite 4k, you have enough budget, why not go to the professional one ?More Functions and better nightvisions.
@EMPIRETECANDY the cameras he linked
have substantially better low light specifications. Unless the specifications are incorrect, those are probably the better cameras.
EMPIRETECANDY
IPCT Vendor
OK, i booked some already. lol.
mfish123
Getting the hang of it
Thanks for all the replies everyone. I did read most of the cliff notes last night. Very informative. I have to give it a 2nd read and explore the links in it to really solidify all the info in my mind.
Just to clarify, I'm looking to be hopefully no higher than $2,000 with the cost of 8 cameras and the NVR (if network cable and mounts put me a bit over, I'm OK with that)
As far as comparing these:
IPC-HDBW2831R-ZS vs. IPC-HDW5831R-ZE
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS vs. IPC-HFW5831E-ZE
I can see that the 2 in the model # is lite and the 5 is eco-savvy. Looks like low light specs are actually better on the less expensive lite versions and it uses an f 1.4 aperture whereas the eco-savvy uses f 1.9 . Obviously better low light performance for less $$ is good.
I did a bit, but not extensive searching. Is there a post of grid somewhere that outlines the differences between the features of lite vs. eco-savvy? Also, my brain is on overload but does maybe one of these series limit the max bandwidth to a point where I couldn't take full advantage of the resolution the sensors is capable of capturing?
Also, what does the ZS and ZE at the end indicate? I konw Z is motorized lens. If S is sd card - am I correct that ZS means motorized lens and SD card. I'm stumped as far as what ZE might indicate.
Lastly, for the domes does "DBW" indicate something different than "DW"? Maybe turret vs. dome?
I see eco-savvy has audio and 3 streams whereas lite does not have audio and has 2 streams
At the end of the day I'd take better low light performance and less expensive vs. worse low light performance with more "bells and whistles" but more expensive, so I could be wrong but I think the lite one is actually before for my needs / wants.
Just to clarify, I'm looking to be hopefully no higher than $2,000 with the cost of 8 cameras and the NVR (if network cable and mounts put me a bit over, I'm OK with that)
As far as comparing these:
IPC-HDBW2831R-ZS vs. IPC-HDW5831R-ZE
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS vs. IPC-HFW5831E-ZE
I can see that the 2 in the model # is lite and the 5 is eco-savvy. Looks like low light specs are actually better on the less expensive lite versions and it uses an f 1.4 aperture whereas the eco-savvy uses f 1.9 . Obviously better low light performance for less $$ is good.
I did a bit, but not extensive searching. Is there a post of grid somewhere that outlines the differences between the features of lite vs. eco-savvy? Also, my brain is on overload but does maybe one of these series limit the max bandwidth to a point where I couldn't take full advantage of the resolution the sensors is capable of capturing?
Also, what does the ZS and ZE at the end indicate? I konw Z is motorized lens. If S is sd card - am I correct that ZS means motorized lens and SD card. I'm stumped as far as what ZE might indicate.
Lastly, for the domes does "DBW" indicate something different than "DW"? Maybe turret vs. dome?
I see eco-savvy has audio and 3 streams whereas lite does not have audio and has 2 streams
At the end of the day I'd take better low light performance and less expensive vs. worse low light performance with more "bells and whistles" but more expensive, so I could be wrong but I think the lite one is actually before for my needs / wants.
mat200
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Welcome mfish123,
The cliff notes have a reference to Dahua OEM international model naming conventions - so do check it out.
( exampe HDBW = dome, HDW = turret )
mat200
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FYI - Costco is carrying a Q-see ( Dahua OEM ) kit which has 8MP Bullets - they do appear close to the specs of the
IPC-HFW1831E ( IPC-HFW1831E )
Costco Wholesale
From the Q-see spec sheet:
Camera Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Bullet Camera
Camera Technology . . . . . . . . . . . IP
Image Sensor Size. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/2"
Image Sensor Type . . . . . . . . . . . . Progressive CMOS
Megapixels . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8MP
Effective Pixels . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3840 x 2160
Lens Size. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.8mm Fixed Lens
Field of View . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . H: 131º, V: 111º
IR Cut Filter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes
8MP (3840 x 2160) - Up to 30FPS
IP67 - weather proof
-22º to 140º F
IVA Functions Abandon, Intrusion, Missing Object, Tripwire
Note the H FOV as listed is different, and it appears to have more IVS functions ( IVA as per Q-see's terminology )
IPC-HFW1831E ( IPC-HFW1831E )
Costco Wholesale
From the Q-see spec sheet:
Camera Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Bullet Camera
Camera Technology . . . . . . . . . . . IP
Image Sensor Size. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/2"
Image Sensor Type . . . . . . . . . . . . Progressive CMOS
Megapixels . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8MP
Effective Pixels . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3840 x 2160
Lens Size. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.8mm Fixed Lens
Field of View . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . H: 131º, V: 111º
IR Cut Filter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes
8MP (3840 x 2160) - Up to 30FPS
IP67 - weather proof
-22º to 140º F
IVA Functions Abandon, Intrusion, Missing Object, Tripwire
Note the H FOV as listed is different, and it appears to have more IVS functions ( IVA as per Q-see's terminology )
mfish123
Getting the hang of it
Good find. This looks like a really great value. One thing I noticed is it doesn't say these have "true" WDR. I see this:
- DWDR / BLC / HLC – Optimized compensations and ranges for the absolute best in focus and picture clarity
I also don't see anything regardin noise reduction
mat200
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Welcome to the Marketing beast... and customers with very little understanding.From the Costco's description:
"Color Night Vision
Let there be light! This latest line of camera supports high-quality LEDs for Color Night Vision up to 100 feet in complete darkness for 24-hour-a-day protection."
Really?
In the end, the companies which do have honest claims will get trampled by those claiming all sorts of fluff - so to be competitive you have to respond.
Customers are just very unknowing about surveillance / security cameras.
Most will buy the following:
- Wifi Cloud dependent with easy controls.
- Wide FOV
- More MegaPixels.
- Color night vision.
- Crazy night vision range claims.
- Craxy ID range claims.
Hopefully the information we've been sharing will help numerous customers who care to at least pick a 1/2 decent wired IP PoE setup.
Hi mfish,
The specs stated WDR - and the write up DWDR. I suspect the write up is a cut and paste modified to the new kit and someone failed to address and modify the DWDR - thus I believe the WDR as stated in the spec sheet.
Normally the spec sheet SHOULD match the writeup - but I have seen a number of typos and mis-edits.
SkyLake
Getting comfortable
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Well, maybe it are just LED flood lights. And not the IR LED's.From the Costco's description:
"Color Night Vision
Let there be light! This latest line of camera supports high-quality LEDs for Color Night Vision up to 100 feet in complete darkness for 24-hour-a-day protection."
Really?
If you turn on a LED flood light, you can see in total darkness, in color. Ok, it will not be covert anymore, but still, you could see. lol
These camera's can really see in darkness in color:
Ultra low light true real time color night vision BroadBand imaging camera
But the price will be waaaay higher, as they will be used mostly by government and military.
mat200
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FYI - the Q-see ( Dahua OEM ) camera by itself is also available from Costco
Costco Wholesale
Spec sheet is only 1 page, and thus does not fully answer some of the questions I have.
Costco Wholesale
Spec sheet is only 1 page, and thus does not fully answer some of the questions I have.
mat200
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The Q-see's products seem to have significantly reduced differences from the dahua oem firmware as they keep the IVS functionality. So you may not even really need to change the firmware.
Hard telling. On Lorex firmware I only have two camera models to try to crossflash and so far I'm not having any luck on those. The Lorex NVR crossflashes to Dahua firmware no problem but you do have to use the serial port and a null modem serial cable to do it. I've also crossflashed (sort of) two Montavue branded cameras to the newest Dahua firmware no problem. Montavue does have a custom color on the camera exterior with their logo but I think Montavue did not mess with the firmware to strip any features out or add their logo to the firmware itself. I think they just loaded Dahua OEM (non logo version) firmware. Lorex customized the firmware with their logo and stripped some of the IVS features out on the cameras I have. On those the partition sizes do not match up to the stock Dahua firmware and I have not had time to try and figure that out. In any case, if the camera firmware is like that, the only way to mess with it is to find and tap into the serial connection on the board inside the camera with a serial TTL usb adapter which can be pretty complicated.
I'd think, IF you can get a hold of the Q-see camera in question and then look at the web interface on the camera. If it has no logo at all then I think its better chances that it will take Dahua firmware than if it has a Q-see logo in the firmware. That would be a firm indication that Q-see customizes the firmware on the camera. Might still work though.... I just do not have enough data to personally make any firm conclusions.
IPVM has a list of OEM brand that use Dahua. Its not comprehensive though (which they do state) but it does give some other brands to potentially find deals on that might be Dahua. Does not list Montavue which I can 100% confirm is Dahua. Dahua OEM Directory
I'd think, IF you can get a hold of the Q-see camera in question and then look at the web interface on the camera. If it has no logo at all then I think its better chances that it will take Dahua firmware than if it has a Q-see logo in the firmware. That would be a firm indication that Q-see customizes the firmware on the camera. Might still work though.... I just do not have enough data to personally make any firm conclusions.
IPVM has a list of OEM brand that use Dahua. Its not comprehensive though (which they do state) but it does give some other brands to potentially find deals on that might be Dahua. Does not list Montavue which I can 100% confirm is Dahua. Dahua OEM Directory
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