Advice for outdoor camera (PoE)

Hi,

I'd like to get at least one camera put up at the back of my house, where I have been broken into a number of years back and had another attempted break in this week.

Ideally, I had something like the following in mind;

• Preferably PoE (the router sits on the other side of the wall where I want the camera to be)
• Onboard/local storage, + cloud
• Wall mountable
• No visible wiring

To expand on these points a little ..
I'd prefer PoE as it seems a bit more future proof and reliable than wifi. A normal hard wired camera is also an option but PoE with a single cable would be better. For installation, I'd like the wiring from the back of the camera to be hidden behind the mount, which I can then feed through into the house via a drilled hole only big enough for the cat5 cable to go through. I have seen a few cameras where the wiring is hidden in the mount, but the wire is too short and it comes terminated with a female RJ45 socket which would be too big a hole to drill. If the cable was longer, I could cut the female off, feed through and crimp a new RJ45 pin but with a short wire it's impossible. Here's an example of what I mean (attached pic):

So, if there is a camera like that one but with a longer connecting cat5 cable, or one where the RJ45 can be connected within the camera casing, that would be ideal.

If one doesn't exist, what are my other options ?

In terms of height, the back wall runs high so it can be physically placed at roughly any height.
Does the mount height really matter? Yes, being higher means they won't be able to rip it off or smash it, however you compromise then the view of whoever is in the garden. Is it better to mount it lower, to get a better view (not for ID purposes, as they'd be covered/masked anyway, but a better profile view) ?

If i wanted to mount it higher, the installation changes somewhat, and I don't think I'd be able to use PoE unless I switched to a visible wire camera and had cable in conduit on the outside wall running down and coming in to the downstairs room where the router is.

Could anyone advise as to what would be best?

I've not mentioned the front of the house, which is even trickier. I have a very low cut roof out the front, the soffit is literally at about 6ft 6. Without the house being networked I don't think I can have a PoE camera out the front, so I'm not sure it's worth installing one at all out there? The back is far more important as that is far more vulnerable than the front. The front is fairly visible, car is on the drive.

Is it worth getting a camera there also, and is there a way of getting a single camera system rather than separates? I'm happy to go with hard wired without PoE if required, but really don't want to bother with a battery stick up cam type.

There is an outside light by the front door, which I would guess could be replaced by a cam with a light, or a cam under it. But this would be mounted at head height and below.

The last alternative for the front is a window sill cam, but these don't really work do they behind glass at night?

Any advice would be really appreciated on any of these points, thank you!

Just to mention too by the way, I have a locksmith coming today to upgrade all the locks and door handles, and windows so the most important bit is covered first before the cameras

based on your questions and requirements have you thought about a completely simple solution? Google "Ring Door Bell" in short it will give you front door/coverage in 1080p/full hd. the rear or side will give you floodlight and camera again in full HD.

Pro's
Completely easy to setup anyone could do it
Cloud storage
Easy Setup for remote access any time and notifications easy.
Notifications on mobile devices in our out and about.
Two way Audio or one way if you just want to listen - but you can answer your door or scary off anyone trying to break in even if your not there.
Guarantee - if they get stolen "ring" replace them free.

Con's
a small monthly fee for the cloud storage. think £2.50 to £8 per month (£8 max any number of devices).
Not the cheapest solution.

Alternative's would be the "google nest" system.
Ubiquiti do a solution more in tune with a DIY system that you may also like plug and play.
after this your in to a full IP and NVR system that would be alot harder to configure, possibly cheaper to purchase with no ongoing costs.

All the best

Welcome to IPCT, fellow Alabamanian! Have you read the Wiki above with special attention to the Cliff Notes?

You are to be commended for not trying to go wireless or battery-operated.

• Regarding mounting / pigtail: read this about a mounting box for cam's pigtail, small hole for CAT-5e.
• Regarding height: Want to know something happened? mount higher than 8 feet. Want to know possibly who did it? Mount less than 8, right at 7.
• Regarding cam out front: watching the approach to your front door, keeping an eye on package deliveries, watching your car / driveway for door-checkers is HIGLY recommended. What is your challenge getting the CAT-5e or 6 to the camera? If you have a power outlet on the front porch that is protected from direct rain and sunlight, you could possibly use a PLA (Power Line Adapter) and put the data signal over the house AC wiring from the cam to the router or POE switch.
• Yes, IR will reflect off window; it can be disabled, however, in most cams if that's a requirement.

Which prompts this: after reading the Wiki, how to plan to view and store recorded videos form the cam(s)? With a NVR? Or a PC with VMS software? (I.E., 'Blue Iris", my choice), a SD card in cam(s)?

Thanks for your replies,

@M4SK13 - I had looked at Ring but a couple of things I wasn't keen - they're non PoE and the monthly subscription cost. There's a lot of bad reviews about unreliable connections too.

@TonyR - Birmingham UK I'm afraid!
Thanks for the info. The challenge with getting the network cables to the router was just the physical cable run. From the front, it can be mounted either side of the front door, on the one side is a garage (with power outlets inside), the other is into the dining room, where there is a power outlet right by that wall.

For storage, flexible with that. I'd prefer to avoid subscription fees if possible, but if it means a better camera then I'm fine with it.

EDIT:
Just had a look through your first link, thanks. So that is an outdoor weatherproof box, mounted to the wall, which the camera is then mounted onto?
Does it make the camera more vulnerable to being ripped off, being mounted on the casing box rather than mounted direct to the wall ?

John Joseph said:

Thanks for your replies,

@M4SK13 - I had looked at Ring but a couple of things I wasn't keen - they're non PoE and the monthly subscription cost. There's a lot of bad reviews about unreliable connections too.

@TonyR - Birmingham UK I'm afraid!
Thanks for the info. The challenge with getting the network cables to the router was just the physical cable run. From the front, it can be mounted either side of the front door, on the one side is a garage (with power outlets inside), the other is into the dining room, where there is a power outlet right by that wall.

For storage, flexible with that. I'd prefer to avoid subscription fees if possible, but if it means a better camera then I'm fine with it.

EDIT:
Just had a look through your first link, thanks. So that is an outdoor weatherproof box, mounted to the wall, which the camera is then mounted onto?
Does it make the camera more vulnerable to being ripped off, being mounted on the casing box rather than mounted direct to the wall ?

Click to expand...

No worries about the NEST/Ring solutions. Ubiquiti would be a sound choice for ease. Get the feeling though your after the likes of the HikVision which would be a sound choice too; small NVR with PoE Built in, cameras can come with a MicroSD card slot typically they are about £60-100 for 4MP through to 8MP and they also a decent 1080p PTZ solution is a little over £230. The nvr can be setup for notifications and remote access. check out how to avoid IR Blasting, WDR setup nicely is good function too.

I'd second Tony's suggestion of ethernet-over-power to carry the IP stream from the front of the house to the switch/NVR, works very well on UK ring mains, especially if both ends are on the same ring. Do aim for the higher spec ones tho, AV1200 and up as they use MIMO tech and achieve better stability and data rates. They won't support PoE though so you'd need a PSU for that camera but you can use an injector/splitter to carry this over the ethernet cable to make things simpler.

You can use a camera to look through glass, just turn off or disable the IR and provide matt black shielding to block any reflections, like a DIY lens hood, works pretty well (I have that setup myself). If you need extra light outside, some low power white LED's would help or even an IR illuminator tho make sure its pattern won't cause glare for the camera and is sited far enough that you don't get bugs swarming and causing the camera vision problems.

If there is a risk that they do get in, will the NVR be visible or easily found? My Hik doesn't have a kensington lock slot so securing these things may be a challenge, I bought a glue on one to fit on that so it can at least slow them down a little, hopefully the cameras and the house alarm going off would deter them from spending enough time to locate it tho

John Joseph said:

Thanks for your replies,

@M4SK13 - I had looked at Ring but a couple of things I wasn't keen - they're non PoE and the monthly subscription cost. There's a lot of bad reviews about unreliable connections too.

@TonyR - Birmingham UK I'm afraid!

Click to expand...

I know of it, just didn't occur to me. Welcome anyway!

John Joseph said:

EDIT:
Just had a look through your first link, thanks. So that is an outdoor weatherproof box, mounted to the wall, which the camera is then mounted onto?
Does it make the camera more vulnerable to being ripped off, being mounted on the casing box rather than mounted direct to the wall ?

Click to expand...

No more so than the cam you pictured. There are aluminum versions of that same box & lid available as well.

Yes, avoid cloud cams, subscriptions, P2P, etc. Have wired cam connect into your network where you can use an NVR or PC to view. record, etc.
== or ==
use SD card in wired cam(s), access via your network view live or to review recordings on the SD card.

I want to backup tony, Stay away from:

• Nest, Ring, Arlo, Blink and the likes.
• Stay away from cloud based anything.
• Stay away from Wifi based cams.
• Stay away from no name "cheap" cams.

Take the time to study the cliff notes thoroughly.

John Joseph said:

Hi,

I'd like to get at least one camera put up at the back of my house, where I have been broken into a number of years back and had another attempted break in this week.

Ideally, I had something like the following in mind;

• Preferably PoE (the router sits on the other side of the wall where I want the camera to be)
• Onboard/local storage, + cloud
• Wall mountable
• No visible wiring

..

Click to expand...

Welcome @John Joseph

I think you can do all of the following, with the possible question of continuous recording to the cloud being a issue due to bandwidth consumption.

• Preferably PoE (the router sits on the other side of the wall where I want the camera to be)
• Onboard/local storage, + cloud
• Wall mountable
• No visible wiring

Definitely check out the cliff notes, I see TonyR, Looney2ns, and Aengus4h have chimed in with some good advice which I concur with.

If you need quality low light images look at the Dahua OEM 2MP starlight models - we have a vendor here on ipcamtalk who will be able to ship those to you at good prices ( see Andy Empiretec in the vendor section ).

They are quality cameras and have microSD card slots so you can add onboard memory.

Most of us like the turret style models.
IPC-HDW42xx or IPC-HDW52xx

There are a number of reviews on those.

There's also a newer IPC-HDW22xx model w/o a mic to record audio and missing a feature or 2 compared to the IPC-HDW53xx model

Cloud storage - you can configure to send alerts to your email and there's certainly other options you can look at - tho continuous cloud storage consumes a lot of bandwidth so that maybe something you want to avoid.

No Visible wiring is certainly possible, a lot depends on the construction of your home and your willingness to do the work yourself or hire someone to do it.

I like the junction boxes / wall mounts.

If installed properly they will be very difficult to remove. ( I used 3" long strudy screws to secure mine to the wood framing / studs of the building )

hi Mat

thing is here in the UK most properties are brick outer walls and maybe block or brick inner or even solid brick if a very old property. Few here are wood framed, so to get a cable through you're looking at a masonary bit of around 12 inches and then channelling the wire down a plaster wall (ideally in trunking) on the inside if you want it concealed. Its a fair bit of effort to get it done and looking good after the fact. Securing to the brickwork shouldn't be a problem tho with decent length screws and suitable plastic plugs or even wall anchors, so as long as the external box is good quality metal then the camera should be solid and secure.

Routing across the house from front to back is much more of a challenge, lifting floors to drill through joists to span across ceilings ain't fun. Not so bad if there's a cellar and you can just drop into that and tack the cable along and pop back up where you need it to go, but few houses have those. Was lucky that a previous house did when I had to renew all the power cabling, saved a ton of time and effort for the ground floor at least

I'm assuming OP owns the property so has freedom to elect a suitable install method, renting limits you drastically, hence I use EoP to carry the network traffic around the house and internally mount my cameras. No way I could be tearing into the fabric of the house as that's against the terms & conditions and I'd be out on the street no doubt lol

As @Aengus4h mentioned, if you go the PLA (EOP) method, you can power to the cam with POE injector/splitter at the cam.
This came up in another thread earlier this year; it's a PLA that also supplies POE ==>> here.

TonyR said:

As @Aengus4h mentioned, if you go the PLA (EOP) method, you can power to the cam with POE injector/splitter at the cam.
This came up in another thread earlier this year; it's a PLA that also supplies POE ==>> here.

Click to expand...

in the UK not many options of that type, found this one which is pretty expensive for a single given you'd need a second (that won't need PoE) to provide the link to the remote switch.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/1200AVA-wall-Homeplug-802-3AT-POE/dp/B01LW81VSC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1530941157&sr=8-2&keywords=powerline+poe

They also do an AV500 one that's a bit cheaper but better to go for the faster unit these days.

Thanks all for your replies and info

After doing a bit more digging off the back of replies here, I've decided instead a better route is to get a dedicated PC with Blue Iris installed, Western Digital Purple drive, an SSD drive to run Windows and BI off. I do own the property and although networking the house is an option, for now until I am able to do that are Powerline adapters a good alternative to cabling? @Aengus4h I see you've mentioned this above, I'd seen TP-Link ones, would something like this be suitable? https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-PA4020PKIT-Passthrough-Powerline-Configuration-Required/dp/B074ZT74QB?th=1

Am I right in thinking then the set up would be something like ..

Router <-> PC
Router <-> POE Switch
POE switch <-> first camera (drilled through the wall connected manually with cable)
POE switch - second camera, via Powerline adapter (cable from camera to adapter)
POE switch <-> n* camera via PLA ?

Does this seem right?

Thanks again

John Joseph said:

Router <-> PC
Router <-> POE Switch

Click to expand...

If you connect the PC to the POE switch that will stop the aggregate camera traffic from traversing the router - and avoid the possibility of crippling the internet access.

Ah great thank you for the tip,

John Joseph said:

Thanks all for your replies and info


POE switch <-> first camera (drilled through the wall connected manually with cable)
POE switch - second camera, via Powerline adapter (cable from camera to adapter)
POE switch <-> n* camera via PLA ?

Does this seem right?

Thanks again

Click to expand...

yes you could do that, but it'll work out expensive with the number of PLA's you'd need, also remember that you'll need one PLA for the PoE switch.

Essentially it should be:

PoE switch -> PC/NVR
PoE switch -> PLA
PoE switch -> direct attached camera(s)
camera *n -> PLA

The PLA would carry the camera traffic over the mains back to the PoE switch, effectively the mains circuit becomes a network backbone. If you're planning to run multiple cameras that way then aim for the faster PLA units AV1200 or up. While it may seem OTT, the aggregate of all cameras will be passing thru the one linking the PoE switch to those remote cameras. Don't mix PLA types either else the entire PLA network will run at the lowest units speed.

Can I just check with someone then that this works for my set up ...

- one camera (for now) directly linked to the PoE switch (PoE port)
- ONE power line adapter into PoE switch (a non-PoE port) <-- Does this allow any number of cameras to be connected around the house via PLAs connected to the cameras?)
- PC connected to PoE switch (non-PoE port)

So port wise I only need as many PoE ports that will be directly linked to cameras, the non PoE ports (let's say it's an 8 port PoE switch with 4 PoE ports 4 non PoE) can be used to connect to a PC and a single PLA which will power cameras around the house? Do I need to be concerned about total power usage with the PoE switch using a PLA ?

Thanks in advance!

Also - not trying to be cheap again but wouldn't a lower speed PLA (500 lets say) be more than sufficient bandwidth wise for one camera?

John Joseph said:

Also - not trying to be cheap again but wouldn't a lower speed PLA (500 lets say) be more than sufficient bandwidth wise for one camera?

Click to expand...

Hi John,

Remember you will need to power the POE cameras, normal PLA adapters do not provide POE power.

Thanks Mat, yes thought so that is done by a PoE injector is that right? Or just connected via the DC lead.