What Would You do

Bccornut

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SO after Reading for 3 days what feels like thousands of posts, I'm kicking myself for buying the lorex. Did I screw up? I'm still in that 60 day return window. I guess what hooked me was the nocturnal line, yea i'll admit i get all excited and tend to jump before thinking. My question for the experts is, do i send back and go with all Dahua (even though I know Dahua makes or owns a branch of lorex?) I like the thought of having everything record to the nvr as space is limited and dont think i could have a dedicated PC. I bought 4K Ultra HD IP NVR System with 2 8MP Motorized Zoom Lens and 2 8MP Audio Dome Cameras, 250FT Night Vision

and i can probably end up maxing the poe ports out over time, but that would give me all the coverage i need. I also hate knowing i've maxed out the usage of the nvr. I've got excellent motion lighting, on every corner of house, plus landscape lighting. As title say's What Would You Do?
 
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tangent

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recently purchased two systems, one for a remote barn which was lorex 4k with bullet cams. I also purchased 4K Ultra HD IP NVR System with 2 8MP Motorized Zoom Lens and 2 8MP Audio Dome Cameras, 250FT Night Vision

for the house. I've run the wires, and before permanently installing cameras I'm just uncertain if i made the right choice in system. After finding this forum I kicked myself for jumping gun early, I guess I'm not wanting to be disjointed. I've got great lighting around the house as when i remodeled i made sure i put LED motions on every corner. I can send it back as I'm still in the 60 day grace period....AHHH the delima!!!!
You could do much worse than this lorex system, but you could also do better.

What wires did you run? The wires that were included in the lorex kit or bulk cable that you have to terminate yourself?
The cable included with kits like that typically isn't the best quality.
 

awsum140

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I should have added read the Wiki in the blue title bar, especially the Cliff Notes in there. Ask questions, read, plan, ask more questions and heed the advice you get from the experts here, not necessarily including me. But most of us have been there, done that, wasted money and gotten frustrated.
 

Bccornut

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I figured the cat cables sent with it were junk, plus I hate the fact that they come spiraled so tight. I’ve been running bulk cat 6 cable through the house.
 

davej

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But wouldn't lots of megapixels be good for daylight use? I am thinking of picking up one of these $85 4K Lorex cameras for use as my driveway camera.

A few weeks ago we had a break-in at the vacant house next-door, and the primary suspect vehicle backed up right in front of my house at 7am the next morning, but on my 2mp 1080p Dahua the license plate was unreadable. Now admittedly, I could set up a license-capture specific camera, but then it would only be good for that one purpose.
 
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awsum140

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Depending on focal length/distancea 4K won't help at all versus a 1080P. If you want to read license plates it takes a dedicated camera for a variety of reasons, day or night. Nice daytime images are great, but at night it won't be very good at all. Most bad stuff happens at low or no light conditions. Have you looked in the Wiki and read the Cliff Notes?
 

aristobrat

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But wouldn't lots of megapixels be good for daylight use? I am thinking of picking up one of these $85 4K Lorex cameras for use as my driveway camera.
I replaced a Starlight driveway cam with a 6MP cam (same min. illumination specs as these 4K cameras) for a few weeks. Some details were a bit sharper during the day (I could read more text on inspection stickers in windshields, etc), but it blurred motion substantially more in low-light, making it next to impossible to get a clear face shot of anyone moving in the driveway.

I ended up putting the Starlight back on the driveway and moving the 6MP as an overview camera for the side yard, where I already had a Starlight zoomed in on a choke point. The extra pixels are helpful there during the day, but once the sun sets, it has little use.
 

MakeItRain

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I started this hobby with fixed-focal lens Amcrest cameras, 2MP then 3MP then 4MP. Then I found out about Dahua and got a Starlight 1080P ptz 25x zoom, then got some fixed lens dahua 4K 8MPs with the big 1/1.8" sensor.
(i'll skip the starlight ptz camera for now since that's a different beast)

I can unequivocally say, without a doubt.... just by going from 2 to 3 or 3 to 4 megapixels, there is noticeable difference in day time visual quality (Amcrest camera). Then, when compared to Dahua's 1831E 1/1.8" sensor that's 4K/8MP, there is HUGE difference in daytime quality. In fact, I also notice that during night time, Dahua's 8MP HFW-1831E bullet outperforms my Amcrest 3 and 4MP bullets. Why is that you ask? When everybody preaches that higher megapixels means less light for each picture resulting in more noisy and dark images. There is some truth to that but there is also another mitigating factor.

First, my Amcrest (dahua rebranded) 1025E spec is a 1/3" 4MP CMOS sensor @ 2688x1520 resolution. It has a minimum illumation of 0.01Lux/F2.0. This ain't that great at night. My Dahua 1831E 8MP/4K has a 1/1.8" sensor @ 3840x2160 but check this out, it has a 0.003Lux/F1.6 and 0.08Lux/F1.6. By a huge margin, the sensor is bigger and the lux rating is much, much better than the Amcrest.

That is why, I could not believe that the 8MP Dahua's night performance was better than my 4MP Amcrest's. Now, let's talk about my Starlight PTZ 49225T-HN. It is a 1/2.8" Starvis sensor with 0.005 Lux. It can zoom 4.8mm to 120mm. That means optical zoom without losing detail. This is not a fair comparison because this is a variable focal camera. If you're looking to capture specific details like license plates, true, you don't need 4K 8MP. Just get the biggest Starvis/Starlight zoom camera there is that is 1080P.

So what is the moral of the story that I learned from my experience and the preaching of others?

1) Find the biggest sensor you can find for the megapixel you want. Don't be fixated on megapixels. If you're increasing megapixels because you want to capture very specific detail likes faces and license plates, you're better off using a varifocal or zoomed lens and allocate more pixels to a very narrow region of view.

2) Understand the tradeoff that generally speaking, yes going higher MP means reduced night time quality. But you should always see better daytime quality versus the lower MP camera. That is the assuming the manufacturer did not put crap 4K sensors and I suspect many american rebranded cameras do that.

3) There is certainly no replacement for higher pixels during daytime for fixed cameras. It's sharper and cleaner, again when you use the right sensors.

4) Why most people see terrible night performance on 4K camera is because the quality of the sensor is not that great, or they have truly, terrible illumination at night. If you have terrible lighting, you need to blast infrared or truly go back to a starvis 1080p. I mean, we're talking pitch blackness.

So how do you solve this problem? Do what I did. I have the Dahua 8MP 4K's complimenting the Starlight PTZ. Each camera around my home serves different purposes. There is no one-size fits all solution. Choose what is more important to you, and if you can't decide, then you'll have to buy two or more cameras like I did.

Where I live, I have plenty of lighting so YMMV.
 
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aristobrat

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1) Find the biggest sensor you can find for the megapixel you want.
For folks that hate fractions (like me), remember that the smaller the number after the /, the larger the sensor is.

i.e. a 1/1.8" sensor is larger than a 1/2.5" sensor.
 

tangent

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In the words of my 4th grade math teacher, an improper fraction or "Dolly Parton fraction" is bigger on the top than the bottom. :lmao:

Fractions and I get along fine. This is roughly the point where I start throwing things: CAT(k) space - Wikipedia
 
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Wildcat_1

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@Bccornut

There are a lot of good suggestions here so I wanted to add a slightly different angle from my experience. I went ahead and purchased a Lorex 4KHDIP822 (4K Ultra HD IP NVR System with 4 Outdoor 4K 8MP IP Cameras, 275FT Color Night Vision, Real-time recording) around December and got a steal on it for around $500 when all was said and done. The white bullets are (comparing spec to spec) looking like Dahua 5831 re-brands and the black bullets (LNB9232S) 'appear' to be 1831 re-brands (albeit with audio built in), cannot confirm this last bullet as all that we know (thanks to Lorex) is that these are 2.8mm lenses with apparent similar optics (real time testing) to the 1831 (going to see if @EMPIRETECANDY, Andy can supply an 1831E to do a 'real' test against) and the NR908x NVR).

Not knowing how much you paid for your kit, I looked at mine as 'great place to start with at least some Dahua rebrands which I augment with better cameras as I move forward with it'. I now (thanks to @EMPIRETECANDY and the great input from this forum) have added in 5231R-ZE's, 5231E-Z12's, a SD6CE225U-HNI PTZ, a couple of Amcrest bullets (bargain on Amazon under $50 on sale for 2.8mm 4k overviews only) and continue to add with the specific cameras I need for a certain area/task as well as upgrade any that didn't quite cut it.

Again, not knowing your price etc it may be different for you. For me however this was a great way to get started, gave me an NVR as well while looking at other options for an awesome entry level price. As others have stated, there are caveats such as IVS stripped out, Lorex not providing FW unless you hook up online etc but the base of the cams function the same way and allow many of the similar settings (such as the ridiculous 50k bitrate on the 9232S / similar to the 1831E before latest FW), true WDR etc.

Anyway, just wanted to leave that thought as well. Either way, you've come to the right place for great information and a supportive, helpful community. Welcome !
 

MakeItRain

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Why does Lorex not disclose the specs of their LNB9232S ? For example, the size of the image sensor and the lux rating. But at a shocking $399.99 each, it had better be even better than the 1831E.

I tell a few of my friends/neighbors to try Lorex. I should probably stop doing that. I only say that because Costco has a good return policy should they not like it. :)
 

Wildcat_1

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@MakeItRain TBH I think its a mix of their support team just don't know. When I spoke to Lorex many times asking about min. illumination etc the answer I got was 'it switches to B&W when too dark for color' !!!!!! I know @fenderman also tried to get info and got similar responses. Again, I am certainly not advocating people go out and buy Lorex systems as I mentioned above. However, if the timing and price is right it can make (if you choose your cam and NVR package carefully) a nice entry point for a great price. You are 100% right about the Costco return policy being extremely hard to beat. Don't ever buy Lorex separates (except deals on junction boxes) such as cams at $399.99 by the way and don't tell friends/neighbors to buy wifi cams and all is good ;)
 

davej

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Well, there are two factors which lead me to believe that a mix of cameras may make sense. For the backyard where there is little nighttime illumination a 2mp Dahua Starlight camera makes perfect sense, but maybe for the driveway, where you leave a light on at night, and where there also may be streetlight illumination, and where a high daytime resolution may be very valuable, maybe this is a place for a higher resolution camera? Is that a valid thought process?

UPDATE-- I've ordered an IPC-HFW1831E to play with.
 
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aristobrat

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Is that a valid thought process?
Everyone's situation is unique... if you have enough light in your driveway for it to work, then it sounds pretty valid. :)

At night, my driveway is so-so dark. There's an always-on 100w bulb (don't remember the lumens) plus two streetlights about 50ft away (diff directions, obviously). I only have one driveway cam, and when I swapped in one with a 1/2.5" sensor, that was not enough light to get useful video of things moving. Too much blur.

From that experience, I will not use a higher MP camera with a 1/2.5" image sensor for a darkish area unless I also have a 2MP Starlight covering a portion of that area.

I'm excited about Dahua's 4K cameras that use 1/1.8" sensors... as soon as those are available in turrets, I'll be doing some upgrades of a few of my 2MP Starlights.
 
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