Need help picking out Equipment for remote Location- Needs to boot back up easily

Does the internet provider furnish the modem?
If so, try to get them to swap it out.

You might get further with them if there's an office you can visit ,where you can talk to someone to face to face.

CaliGirl said:

Hey guys, just reporting back after some time. All of the hardware I bought has been working wonderful through three winters now. With the exception of my cable modem or router. I have lost Internet connection at least three times this winter and currently it is off-line and will not reconnect for 2 weeks. Super frustrating. I’m sure it’s something as simple as unplugging the modem and plugging it back in. But unfortunately I cannot do that remotely. And I’m just making assumptions!


The Asus WiFi router has a simple timer on it to reboot once a week. Power off for 1 min and power back on. The concept behind that was in the event there is a hiccup or issue that a simple power cycle the router may fix it. Whether this has helped or not I am not quite sure.....


What I don’t have, is any timer or switch to the cable modem to power cycle it. So every time the power goes out and back on I’m just expecting the cable modem to wake back up and be happy again. But I think that may be where the issue lies. What do you guys think. Does the cable modem need to wake up first, and then the Wi-Fi router? Is there an order of events? Should I add a simple timer to the cable modem to reboot every three days so if there is a hook up it will fix itself? What if I had two digital timers and the timers were set to power Power cycle the cable modem first. And then a few minutes later turn on the Wi-Fi router?


Basically I just need the system to be more reliable and self heal it self after a power outage or cable outage.


What has worked amazing is the Dell computer Dahua switch and all the Dahua cameras.


I am currently using a 5 yr old Hitron Cable Modem for 100mbs service. Thinking of throwing some more money at the modem and replacing it with an Arris Docs3.0 32 channel to see if that will handle coming back online better? Ideas?

Modem I currently use: https://www.hitron-americas.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CDA-RES-datasheet.pdf

Modem I’m thinking to buy:ARRIS SURFboard (8x4) DOCSIS 3.0 Cable Modem, 343 Mbps Max Speed, Certified for Comcast Xfinity, Spectrum, Cox, Cablevision & more (SB6141 Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YUU5628/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_W4z6CbB3P0REV

Click to expand...

Again, what you need is a PDU that will ping your mission critical devices and power cycle them when they fail to respond. You need set the PDU to ping your router, your cable modem (Motorola modems are typically 192.168.100.1 on the LAN) and something on the web (typically google's DNS 8.8.8.8) and power cycle the appropriate device(s) when the pings fail. You can set rules and multiple destinations so you are power cycling correctly for the appropriate failure condition.

They can also be configured for a redneck reset ( power cycling on a schedule (ie weekly) ) for each outlet if that is part of your network housekeeping.

Here is a an low cost one that will look at (and power cycle) two devices:

https://www.amazon.com/3Gstore-Remote-Power-IP-Switch/dp/B00LLVQ9OI/ref=pd_cp_147_2?pd_rd_w=59bwA&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=S35Y9BX2R6QZH6D7WYVC&pd_rd_r=9bd88138-7fbb-11e9-b9be-2339e3b9437a&pd_rd_wg=INeRb&pd_rd_i=B00LLVQ9OI&refRID=S35Y9BX2R6QZH6D7WYVC&th=1

The firmware is kind of dated but it works very reliability.

Something like this will do everything you would ever need for a little more $$$$$:

https://www.amazon.com/Web-Power-Switch-Pro-Model/dp/B0765NCB2L/ref=pd_sbs_23_2/140-9365411-4734623?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0765NCB2L&pd_rd_r=aeceacc0-7fbc-11e9-b06b-1967775fe31c&pd_rd_w=Td6p8&pd_rd_wg=Y3E7F&pf_rd_p=588939de-d3f8-42f1-a3d8-d556eae5797d&pf_rd_r=KYD114W3D2KPNBC6RH0R&psc=1&refRID=KYD114W3D2KPNBC6RH0R

The only (minor) downside with this type of setup is if the site has power and the ISP has issues, the PDU will power cycle the modem continuously on the configured cadence (I use 10 minutes) until WAN connectivity is restored. If this takes days or weeks this could be a lot of power cycles on the device (which probably isn't good for it). My ISP provides the modems as part of their service so not a huge deal for me.

I also use multi-WAN routers on some remote sites with the failover ISP being LTE based so I can get access to the LAN and get the cable modem's real time status which is super handy when the ISP is telling you everything is hunky-dory and it is not. Also I can disable the continuous power cycling of the cable modem remotely if the ISP is going to be down for a while (ie snow event that will take a few days to fix the lines) until things are restored.

Ford said:

.....They can also be configured for a redneck reset ( power cycling on a schedule (ie weekly) ) for each outlet if that is part of your network housekeeping.

Click to expand...

Proof that I have distant relatives in Canada.......

CaliGirl said:

Yes potentially long the power outages. At least a day or two at a time. So I think I would need a pretty big back up battery.

Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe not. While any reasonably-sized UPS won't keep your cable modem up more than 2-3 hours, what it can do is also: 1. Help ensure the CM is isolated from powerline surges and sags, which is usually what wrecks them and 2. Ensure that, when it comes back up it has an opportunity to come all the way up before the rug is yanked out from under it again.

The importance of #2 cannot be overstated: Some devices, while they're coming up and doing Power-On Self Tests (POST) or recovery cleanup: If the power is abruptly removed during one of these processes can lock up or even become irrecoverably bricked.

looney2ns said:

Lodge a complaint with your state utility commission.

Click to expand...

Check first whether the ISP is even subject to the state PUC or PSC. In most states they are not.

CaliGirl said:

Thank you for giving me the confidence to escalate this. I will see where I can take it.

Click to expand...

The only escalation beyond what you've done would require them sending somebody out to the site. (Aka: A "truck roll.") A truck roll will require somebody be present at the residence.

I wonder, @CaliGirl, how important to you is access to this surveillance system and do you have reliable wireless coverage at the location? Reason I ask is you can often put a CM in a kind of "transparent" mode, install your own, more capable router, and configure it to do automatic fail-over to, and fail-back from, a backup Internet connection. It's not free, and it's fairly technically challenging to get set up, but it is a possible solution.

ISP can furnish the modem but we bought our own. To get a modem from them I will need to visit the store which is only open m-f and I generally only visit town sat/sun. They have a 1.7 rating on their google reviews. No one wants to have to interact with cable companies. I pay $7 a month for their free service call insurance and the soonest they can meet me there is July 5th. So the usual cable company run around.

1. @looney2ns I just bought the $50 Docs3.0 Arris from Amazon and will swap out the other one next week. Worth a shot I figured! I don't care if it power cycles a ton, $50 isnt too bad for a new one if I wear it out.

2. OK you guys have convinced me to buy a UPS device. I know it was suggested many times. Really really good points you make @Dramus . Which UPS do you suggest for my situation? I was reading the reviews on Amazon and I need to be careful that it will turn its self back ON after a power outage and after it depletes its battery. The Amazon basic one will not do that. You have to be physically there to turn it back on.

"Emily E. Reitter
1.0 out of 5 starsDon't buy unless you can be there to reset it
August 15, 2018
Style: 400VAVerified Purchase
I bought 3 of these UPS units to power my router and other equipment to handle random short power outages and it works great for that. The major problem and huge deal breaker is when there is a longer power outage and the battery power is depleted. When the battery power runs out , in order to get power back to your UPS connected equipment after the A/C power returns, you must be physically there to hit the reset button on this UPS unit. When the A/C power returned, I expected this UPS unit to start back up but it doesn't unless you are physically there to hit the UPS reset button.

3. @Ford , reading up on the PDU. I was hoping my redneck digital timer would serve the same purpose for cheaper, but obviously, that has not worked. I think the cable modem needs to come online first, then the wifi router, then all devices downstream. Otherwise, everything sits powered up but at idle. SO I bought the Pro Model Web Power switch for $160.

Upgrades:

$50 new Cable modem
$160 PDU pro Model
$100 UPS backup power (coming soon)
= $310 Boy this stuff gets expensive fast

4. I did a lot of research on the fail over LTE backup cell modems. They seem like they work well and we have good cell reception. But the cheapest prepaid cell plan I could find was $30. That quickly adds up to $360 a year for the backup service plus another $200 in hardware. Unless there is a cheaper data plan somehow, it cost too much for us...

Interesting. I almost bought one of those cheap AmazonBasics UPS and now I'm glad I got a Cyberpower unit instead.

It is a little tricky to set up the auto-ping feature in a web power switch, but that is what I've used for years and I'm confident it will do the job. Hopefully you get a good unit that doesn't end up with a bunch of bad relays after a few years (each switched outlet has a relay. The relay is what controls the power state of the outlet). Almost half of the web power switches I've ever bought have died this way.

CaliGirl said:

2. OK you guys have convinced me to buy a UPS device. I know it was suggested many times. Really really good points you make @Dramus . Which UPS do you suggest for my situation?

Click to expand...

I've tried many brands of UPS' over the years and keep coming back to APC. For our NAS (originally purchased to run the networked DVR, which is now also playing surveillance cam NVR) I went with an APC BE600M1. $55.41 at Amazon. I calculated the uptime to be two hours with the load I have and that's what it came out to in practice.

I chose the BE600M1 over other APC models because it has a user-replaceable battery. Batteries have about a three year life expectancy and are cheaper to replace than entire UPS'. (Not to mention replacing just the battery is more environmentally friendly than sending an entire UPS to a recycler or landfill.)

Readers can safely skip the following historical observations and opinion if they like.

Once-upon-a-time the North American power grid was one of the cleanest, most reliable power grids on the planet. (Particularly the Northeast power grid.) It was once the envy of the civilized world. (Except maybe for the 120VAC, 60Hz aspect, which is another story.) But that was then and this is now. Now our power grid is absolutely not to be trusted. It's still clean power, but it's a far cry from reliable. Bottom line: No sensitive equipment, particularly computer or networking equipment, should ever be exposed directly to the mains, in my opinion. And, no: The average surge suppressor power strip won't suffice, IMO. These have a very narrow range of effectiveness--even when they work.

Oops! Sorry, I missed this comment first time around...

CaliGirl said:

4. I did a lot of research on the fail over LTE backup cell modems. They seem like they work well and we have good cell reception. But the cheapest prepaid cell plan I could find was $30. That quickly adds up to $360 a year for the backup service plus another $200 in hardware. Unless there is a cheaper data plan somehow, it cost too much for us...

Click to expand...

Yeah, that might be difficult to justify.

An additional line on our existing plan would've cost us $10/month, but our carrier was offering a free additional line for qualifying plans one weekend a year or so ago. Just happened to luck-out and hear of it on the radio. All I have to pay is taxes and fees. So it's only costing us $4/mo.

Any Apc or cyberpower or other UPS has user replaceable batteries. Always have.
Buy the biggest capacity UPS you can afford.
My last two have been true sinewave 1500va Cyberpower units.
https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Outlets-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?keywords=cyberpower+battery+backup&qid=1558897439&s=gateway&sprefix=cyb&sr=8-4

looney2ns said:

Any Apc or cyberpower or other UPS has user replaceable batteries. Always have.

Click to expand...

Not any more. Some of the newer APC "consumer" UPS' are not designed for user-replaceable batteries. Doesn't mean you can't, but you are not meant to. E.g.: The UPS I mention above has a door in the bottom through which the battery is accessed. The newer version, which replaces it, does not. Nor is the newer one meant to be disassembled so as to access the battery.

looney2ns said:

Buy the biggest capacity UPS you can afford.

Click to expand...

As a newb to a forum I usually hesitate to disagree with an established member, but, as somebody who used to do this kind of thing for a living I have to say I feel this isn't necessarily the best advice. There are many technical reasons why.

IMO better advice is to determine your load, how long you want it to run, then size the UPS to provide the uptime you want for the load you intend to present to it. Anything much over that is a waste of money and energy, IMO. Add a fudge factor to account for errors in calculations and possible future expansion, if you like.

Btw: To prevent the sealed lead acid batteries from "plating", it's a good idea to cycle the UPS about once-per-quarter. If connected to a computer or other device that can put it into a run-time test mode: Use that. Otherwise pull the plug until it starts making the "I'm about to run out of battery!" noises or shuts down the load.

looney2ns said:

Any Apc or cyberpower or other UPS has user replaceable batteries. Always have.
Buy the biggest capacity UPS you can afford.
My last two have been true sinewave 1500va Cyberpower units.
https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Outlets-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?keywords=cyberpower+battery+backup&qid=1558897439&s=gateway&sprefix=cyb&sr=8-4

Click to expand...

Hi @CaliGirl

I concur with looney2ns

Cyberpower 1500va or a higher end APC

Also I do like the idea of being able to remotely powercycle if needed.

I have been in this house since Feb. of 2006 and have endured 2 to 3 dozen severe lighting storms in that time frame, and I'd say 6 or 8 that I would term "extreme". From July 2008 to Oct. 2014 I had a Tripp-Lite 750va UPS on a Sony 52" HD LCD projection TV. Never has a problem. I replaced the battery about the fall of 2011 when it was 3 years old.

I have had 2 APC BE600 UPS's on my BI server and office PC since 2013 and replaced batteries in both 2016; replaced those 2 with new APC's just 2 months ago after a second unfavorable experience with Cyberpower units as follows:

Oct. 2014 I replaced the 52" Sony and Tripp-Lite UPS with a 65" Sony 4K/3D TV and put it on a new CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS System, 1000VA/600W. In July 2016, a nearby lightning strike passed through the UPS and damaged the TV via the power cable, as no other cable (Ethernet or HDMI) was connected to the TV.

Oct. 2016, Best Buy replaced the unrepairable TV with a new 65" Sony 4K/3D TV of similar specs and I put it on a new CyberPower CP1000AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS System, 1000VA/600W. About April 2018 I installed a Vizio sound bar on it. In March of 2019 a nearby lightning strike passed through the UPS and damaged the Vizio soundbar; no cables (Power, Ethernet or HDMI) were connected to the TV, which may have been its salvation.

I do not have any Cyberpower UPS's in this house nor do I purchase them for other people. I currently have 3 APC units in the house and don't plan on using or recommending anything but APC from this point forward. Others may swear by them and so I understand their loyalty. For me, I'm O for 2 with the only 2 I've owned.

When I know a severe lightning storm is coming I unplugged ALL cables coming into this TV. I also unplug my laser printer and the office PC. After losing the motherboard in my BI server, a 8 port switch and a Unifi AP in March of this year due to lightning, I pull the power to the BI server and the CAT-5e from the attic into my switch when it's starting to get "extreme".

For me a UPS is much like an insurance policy and certainly no guarantee. Most of the time they have the opportunity to do what they do best where I live: clean up the "dirty" power and spikes and provide standby power for the 1 to 10 second outages we get when trees or limbs fall onto lines or squirrels get across transformer secondaries (OK..you're out of the gene pool!). Most of those occur on clear days without a cloud in the sky! We also get some nasty spikes when nearby capacitor banks switch open/close as the power factor changes, especially early morning in the wintertime, likely from resistive heating elements in heat pumps and ovens switching on/off during breakfast.

Just my experience....certainly, "your mileage may vary".

looney2ns said:

Any Apc or cyberpower or other UPS has user replaceable batteries. Always have.
Buy the biggest capacity UPS you can afford.
My last two have been true sinewave 1500va Cyberpower units.
https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Outlets-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?keywords=cyberpower+battery+backup&qid=1558897439&s=gateway&sprefix=cyb&sr=8-4

Click to expand...

Yes or to save some money you can go with:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FBK3QK

1500va/900w too and you can replace the battery easily. I have been using it for 4 years no issues with battery life. While it doesn't matter in your situation maybe I get about 60-120 minutes with just my router/nvr plugged in. And 80minutes with computer or at least it says I never tried keeping them running when power goes out.

Good idea bout cycling the UPS. I tried both APC/Cyberpower and both were fine. I can say APC had a terrible smell to it and off-gassed for a few weeks after opening while CyberPower did not have any VOC smells. Not sure if a big deal but just worth mentioning my experience with both.

Dramus said:

Not any more. Some of the newer APC "consumer" UPS' are not designed for user-replaceable batteries. Doesn't mean you can't, but you are not meant to. E.g.: The UPS I mention above has a door in the bottom through which the battery is accessed. The newer version, which replaces it, does not. Nor is the newer one meant to be disassembled so as to access the battery.


As a newb to a forum I usually hesitate to disagree with an established member, but, as somebody who used to do this kind of thing for a living I have to say I feel this isn't necessarily the best advice. There are many technical reasons why.

IMO better advice is to determine your load, how long you want it to run, then size the UPS to provide the uptime you want for the load you intend to present to it. Anything much over that is a waste of money and energy, IMO. Add a fudge factor to account for errors in calculations and possible future expansion, if you like.

Btw: To prevent the sealed lead acid batteries from "plating", it's a good idea to cycle the UPS about once-per-quarter. If connected to a computer or other device that can put it into a run-time test mode: Use that. Otherwise pull the plug until it starts making the "I'm about to run out of battery!" noises or shuts down the load.

Click to expand...

All opinions welcome. I want a UPS to keep whatever is attached to it running as long as possible. The last two 1500va units I purchased measure 4-5 watts at the wall with a full battery charge. A 600va I have here measure's 3 watts at the wall with a full charge.
In previous conversations with @CaliGirl that is her preference as well in her situation...running long term.

The UPS is a good call. Full power outages can certainly cause issues with tech appliances like routers. The two most common causes of power issues with such devices I have come across is "brown out" where the power drops significantly but does not go completely out. Power surges when power returns from full blackout can also cause issues. A good quality UPS should address both of these issues. Also certainly smart UPS units have extensive logging capabilities that can show utility power behavior with time and date which can help in tracking down issues. Some smart UPS units have the outlets in groups and you can schedule power cycling those groups as desired.

Anyone had experience with the WebPowerSwitch Pro? I am 2 hrs in and we can not get it to cycle the power when it looses an internet connection. We got logged in, adjusted the AutoPing but nothing. The literature and youtube videos are super poor. I know I am not an IT person but for $500 they could have created a few how to videos to help people understand their product more. Getting frustrated. I'm sure it does it job but def not easy to understand. Frequently asked questions about DLI power controllers.

CaliGirl said:

Anyone had experience with the WebPowerSwitch Pro? I am 2 hrs in and we can not get it to cycle the power when it looses an internet connection. We got logged in, adjusted the AutoPing but nothing. The literature and youtube videos are super poor. I know I am not an IT person but for $500 they could have created a few how to videos to help people understand their product more. Getting frustrated. I'm sure it does it job but def not easy to understand. Frequently asked questions about DLI power controllers.

Click to expand...

I just finished reading the Amazon reviews for that power switch, and from their experience, I'd contact their Technical Support people directly.

Let me get you a screenshot of how I configured mine years ago...

Oh, uh, I guess mine broke so this is probably not worth anything. I'm not on-location with it this week and I'm not going to try reconfiguring that remotely

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.

I visited the remote site this week. The digital timer I had setup to reboot the cable modem once a week HERE is what caused the entire system to fail. Or at least it was stuck in the off position with a blank screen. I think the internal battery ran out. Nonserviceable. As soon as I plugged the modem back it the system be came alive. That is my fault for relying on a cheap device to keep the system running. I know for a fact though that the cable modem sometimes does not come back ok and thus the reason I installed this last fall.

Anyhow. I installed 2 battery backups UPS. One of the modem on it's own. A second one to power the Dell computer and Asus wifi router. I did not put the POE switch and cameras on a backup bc they use almost 80-90 watts and that would make the UPS run out much sooner. Maybe down the road. But figured keep the router and dell running 20 mins or so is more important than recording during a power outage However it would be fun to see the local environment when the power goes out, like a storm or lighting.

I did some testing with the KASA wifi switches. One for the Dell and one for the Cameras. The devices are in place incase I ever need to reboot anything remotely bc they hang or I can't log in. They seem to hold a schedule too if you ever tell them to reboot once a week ( i didnt do that) but cool that they hold a schedule even if they lose the internet or go through a power outage.

I got my Open VPN running again so now I can log in remotely to adjust cameras. Can also use teamviewer to check on the dell again. Got it unflagged for commercial use. Thanks for everyone's help on this ongoing project! Fingers crossed it stays going for a long time again.

Just bought a second home and trying to figure out what to do as I don’t think the ring cameras I use at home will cut it. This was a great thread to learn so much info from. But what I really want to know is did @CaliGirl solve her issue with the cable modem and power outages yet?

Bertcord said:

Just bought a second home and trying to figure out what to do as I don’t think the ring cameras I use at home will cut it. This was a great thread to learn so much info from. But what I really want to know is did @CaliGirl solve her issue with the cable modem and power outages yet?

Click to expand...

i’m glad it helped you! It’s probably due for an update by now. I’ll try working on that.

The cable modem issue is resolved. I replaced it with a new modem and I added two backup power supplies. I’m not sure which item fixed it but it’s been reliable for 2+ years and boots back up after power outages on its own. Having two Wi-Fi remote switches is also been really helpful because I can power down either the computer or the cameras from my phone and that resolves small glitches as well.

The back up power supplies that I bought we’re helpful, but after one year one of them has already died and I can’t get it to charge or work properly. That was one of my concerns and one of the reason I avoided them is because the reviews are bad, and the reviews are correct. They don’t last very long. I used two 600va UPC brand backup batteries.

I have had no issues with any of my cabling, cameras, switch, hard drive, Dell Computer, or the blue Iris software.