First System - Would Like Some Help Architecting

usafltg

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Hi everyone -

I've been reading up a bit on "Blue Iris" as a software, and I think it's what i'm looking for, but not 100% sure. I'm trying to design an outside security system for our home and have been looking at several "systems" but being an IT guy, and working for an IT Security company, there's a couple of things I'm sure of. 1) I don't want a system I have to pay a subscription for. and 2) I don't want my video hosted in the cloud.

That being said -

- I'm looking for between 4 - 6 high quality cameras of both day and night.

- We do already have a Ring Doorbell installed, and the night quality on it is actually pretty impressive in our opinion.

- to go around the perimeter of my house, of which I should have easy access to run CAT 5e / 6 easily (I have boxes of it laying around, so not really worried about cable runs). I'm thinking a hard wired system over a WiFi camera, and can get my hands on a gigabit PoE switch pretty easily. I already have a 4 port PoE switch laying around that i used to use for my IP Phones.

- I like the idea of the Nest Cameras ability to track and zoom and follow movement / facial recognition... but not sure if there's other cameras / systems that do this

- I'm not really sure what other hardware I need? Do I just buy an NVR? Do I standup a new server?

- I basically want a system, that tracks motion, records audio and notifies just like my ring doorbell, works well at night, tracks and zooms automatically like the nest cameras, and am able to store it all locally and get notified on my phone.

Not sure if this is a pipe dream or not... but looking for some help.
 

fenderman

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If you think ring has good nightime image quality, then you will be blown away by cameras that are actually good at night.
Nest cameras do not have the ability to track or follow movement, its a digital zoom which is worthless. You cannot use nest cameras reliably with blue iris and they are cloud based, something you said you dont want.
Start by reading the cliff notes.
 

mat200

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Hi everyone -

I've been reading up a bit on "Blue Iris" as a software, and I think it's what i'm looking for, but not 100% sure. I'm trying to design an outside security system for our home and have been looking at several "systems" but being an IT guy, and working for an IT Security company, there's a couple of things I'm sure of. 1) I don't want a system I have to pay a subscription for. and 2) I don't want my video hosted in the cloud.

That being said -

- I'm looking for between 4 - 6 high quality cameras of both day and night.

- We do already have a Ring Doorbell installed, and the night quality on it is actually pretty impressive in our opinion.

- to go around the perimeter of my house, of which I should have easy access to run CAT 5e / 6 easily (I have boxes of it laying around, so not really worried about cable runs). I'm thinking a hard wired system over a WiFi camera, and can get my hands on a gigabit PoE switch pretty easily. I already have a 4 port PoE switch laying around that i used to use for my IP Phones.

- I like the idea of the Nest Cameras ability to track and zoom and follow movement / facial recognition... but not sure if there's other cameras / systems that do this

- I'm not really sure what other hardware I need? Do I just buy an NVR? Do I standup a new server?

- I basically want a system, that tracks motion, records audio and notifies just like my ring doorbell, works well at night, tracks and zooms automatically like the nest cameras, and am able to store it all locally and get notified on my phone.

Not sure if this is a pipe dream or not... but looking for some help.
Welcome @usafltg

Definitely take some time and review the cliff notes as fenderman recommends. It is the embodiment of a vast amount of experience and knowledge which members have been sharing here.

Once you've gone over that, do take a look at some of the reviews members have been doing on various cameras.

In particular I have been watching the reviews of the newer Dahua starlight+ cameras which @EMPIRETECANDY has provided some of our members to review. ( see @looney2ns and @aristobrat recent reviews, as well as other members )

Take some time to learn, and I am certain you'll find some good options to handle your needs and wants. ( imho nothing is perfect and certainly hollywood has distorted what security cameras are capable of )
 

SouthernYankee

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:welcome:

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
 
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All excellent suggestions here. The 2x4/bucket/stones test rig is well worth the minor investment and ease of assembly and will save you a lot of regret later. Purchase a 16-port PoE switch to run your cameras, and home-run the wire from the cameras to this switch. Patch panels between the camera and switch are fine.
Blue Iris is better than any NVR you can buy. You don't need a brand new i7 server to run it, you can save a bundle obtaining an off-lease i7 system from eBay for $200 to $300. Install 8GB RAM (more is unnecessary), a 2.5-inch SSD for the Windows 10 operating system (250 or more GB is more than adequate) and a 4TB (or greater) Western Digital Purple disk drive for the video storage.
I'm a strong proponent for the Dahua Starlight cameras. The 4231 fixed-focus turret and the 5231 vari-focal turret both have microphones to record sound along with video. The 2231 vari-focal turret saves about $30 by eliminating the microphone and minimizing the firmware capabilities (but not the quality) of the video. If you purchase cameras from @EMPIRETECANDY (a forum member) they will be top-quality international versions delivered direct to your door via DHL in five days or less. If you prefer, Andy has an Amazon store presence, as well. Owing to Dahua and Amazon restrictions, the cameras are branded as Loryta, but are 100% Dahua quality. Many, MANY forum members can confirm Andy's long-standing quality and commitment to excellent customer service.
Do not be fooled or led astray by the availability of inexpensive Chinese cameras hacked to run English firmware from ALiExpress or other vendors. They are lower quality plastic instead of steel, and the firmware is not upgradable without reverting to Chinese language screens. :banghead:
If you want to eliminate the cloud-based Ring doorbell, look for the Hikvision or Dahua models that provide RTSP streaming video direct to your Blue Iris system. Finally, if you're an iPhone user, purchase the Blue Iris app and never look back. Blue Iris began offering Version 5 of their software today, and I'll be upgrading this afternoon. It's powerful, flexible, optimized, and rock-solid software.
:welcome: Good luck, don't be afraid to ask questions, and definitely benefit from the experiences of others here at IPCT. We won't steer you wrong, and we've made a few mistakes in our experience. You probably will, too, but hey, nobody's perfect, right? :rofl:
 
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usafltg

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All excellent suggestions here. The 2x4/bucket/stones test rig is well worth the minor investment and ease of assembly and will save you a lot of regret later. Purchase a 16-port PoE switch to run your cameras, and home-run the wire from the cameras to this switch. Patch panels between the camera and switch are fine.
Blue Iris is better than any NVR you can buy. You don't need a brand new i7 server to run it, you can save a bundle obtaining an off-lease i7 system from eBay for $200 to $300. Install 8GB RAM (more is unnecessary), a 2.5-inch SSD for the Windows 10 operating system (250 or more GB is more than adequate) and a 4TB (or greater) Western Digital Purple disk drive for the video storage.
I'm a strong proponent for the Dahua Starlight cameras. The 4231 fixed-focus turret and the 5231 vari-focal turret both have microphones to record sound along with video. The 2231 vari-focal turret saves about $30 by eliminating the microphone and minimizing the firmware capabilities (but not the quality) of the video. If you purchase cameras from @EMPIRETECANDY (a forum member) they will be top-quality international versions delivered direct to your door via DHL in five days or less. If you prefer, Andy has an Amazon store presence, as well. Owing to Dahua and Amazon restrictions, the cameras are branded as Loryta, but are 100% Dahua quality. Many, MANY forum members can confirm Andy's long-standing quality and commitment to excellent customer service.
Do not be fooled or led astray by the availability of inexpensive Chinese cameras hacked to run English firmware from ALiExpress or other vendors. They are lower quality plastic instead of steel, and the firmware is not upgradable without reverting to Chinese language screens. :banghead:
If you want to eliminate the cloud-based Ring doorbell, look for the Hikvision or Dahua models that provide RTSP streaming video direct to your Blue Iris system. Finally, if you're an iPhone user, purchase the Blue Iris app and never look back. Blue Iris began offering Version 5 of their software today, and I'll be upgrading this afternoon. It's powerful, flexible, optimized, and rock-solid software.
:welcome: Good luck, don't be afraid to ask questions, and definitely benefit from the experiences of others here at IPCT. We won't steer you wrong, and we've made a few mistakes in our experience. You probably will, too, but hey, nobody's perfect, right? :rofl:
Super helpful! I did read the cliff notes, and everything seems pretty straight forward as you've laid out.

Question.... if I run a Blue Iris system. for between 4-8 cameras (let's split it down the middle and say I go with 6 of the 4231 or 5231 cameras)... I have a bunch of slightly older Dell Precision M4600 (workstation class laptops) lying around that I use for running VMs and network stuff. They have an i7 2820QM processor which has 4 cores, and 8 logical threads. And all of them have a minimum of 24GB of RAM with 2 SSDs installed (in fact the one i run most of my house on, is running a Win 10 environment, with Plex Media Server + Pi-Hole VM + BTC Trading Platform VM + an Ubuntu VM for networking stuff all at the same time). Is the processor sufficient for this type of setup?

Also.... I'm still within the return policy to return the Ring Doorbell if I decide to do so. Is there a better doorbell one recommends over another (able to use wired doorbell, good video quality, works with Iris, etc.?) Thank you for the info! I'd like to purchase fairly quickly. If a standalone m4600 will handle the work, it sounds like I just need the cams, a 16 port PoE, a different doorbell cam, and everything else I have already... ??

In my head, I'm thinking the PoE switch can go in the attic, with cable runs to each camera, and then a single cable from the PoE switch to my central wirining closet where my R9000 router is (which is running a custom DD-WRT firmware).... maybe even splitting off the subnet. Blue Iris on the same subnet as the cams.

So I guess biggest question is just whether the M4600 can handle the workload... ??
 
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Question.... if I run a Blue Iris system. for between 4-8 cameras (let's split it down the middle and say I go with 6 of the 4231 or 5231 cameras)... I have a bunch of slightly older Dell Precision M4600 (workstation class laptops) lying around that I use for running VMs and network stuff. They have an i7 2820QM processor which has 4 cores, and 8 logical threads. And all of them have a minimum of 24GB of RAM with 2 SSDs installed (in fact the one i run most of my house on, is running a Win 10 environment, with Plex Media Server + Pi-Hole VM + BTC Trading Platform VM + an Ubuntu VM for networking stuff all at the same time). Is the processor sufficient for this type of setup?

[snip!]

So I guess biggest question is just whether the M4600 can handle the workload... ??
Judging fromthat processor's page at ark.intel.comit has QuickSync video processing, so it should easily handle 8 cameras. I run an older Xeon with several outdoor Dahua turrets (2231, 5231) and several indoor Hikvision cube cameras, a total of about twenty cameras. It barely hits 45% CPU at the worst. The single most important thing is to insure when you define new cameras, you enable the 'Direct-to-Disk' option. This pretty much eliminates all encoding overhead, and allows the Intel CPU to stream the h.264/h.265 video to disk. If you miss it, click on the Recording tab for each camera, then the Video Decoding button is on the bottom right to bring up the Direct-Disk option.

Regarding doorbell cameras, most of them are wireless and use 19VAC from your regular doorbell transformer. There's a separate doorbell forum here, and the most popular choices recently have been the Hikvision devices or the Dahua devices. In almost every case, it's good to have a beefy AC transformer with about 20 to 30 volt-amps capacity, and also to have a wireless access point within reasonably close vicinity to the doorbell.
 
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usafltg

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Judging fromthat processor's page at ark.intel.comit has QuickSync video processing, so it should easily handle 8 cameras. I run an older Xeon with several outdoor Dahua turrets (2231, 5231) and several indoor Hikvision cube cameras, a total of about twenty cameras. It barely hits 45% CPU at the worst. The single most important thing is to insure when you define new cameras, you enable the 'Direct-to-Disk' option. This pretty much eliminates all encoding overhead, and allows the Intel CPU to stream the h.264/h.265 video to disk. If you miss it, click on the Recording tab for each camera, then the Video Decoding button is on the bottom right to bring up the Direct-Disk option.

Regarding doorbell cameras, most of them are wireless and use 19VAC from your regular doorbell transformer. There's a separate doorbell forum here, and the most popular choices recently have been the Hikvision devices or the Dahua devices. In almost every case, it's good to have a beefy AC transformer with about 20 to 30 volt-amps capacity, and also to have a wireless access point within reasonably close vicinity to the doorbell.
You are the man... now I just need to order the cameras and the doorbell. I sent a PM to the guy mentioned above. Waiting on a reply. Is he and the amazon guy the same guy / similar pricing? I don’t have a link to the amazon seller’s store.


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You are the man... now I just need to order the cameras and the doorbell. I sent a PM to the guy mentioned above. Waiting on a reply. Is he and the amazon guy the same guy / similar pricing? I don’t have a link to the amazon seller’s store.
I checked Andy's Amazon store today, and it's still using the EmpireTech brand. If you send PM here at the forum, he'll probably read it late tomorrow US time and respond Monday morning. His profile page here shows his email as kingsecurity2014@163.com and either he or someone who works for him was just on the forum a few minutes ago. :)

And if I had any sense, I'd @EMPIRETECANDY reference him right here, so he knows you're looking for him. :)
 
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usafltg

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Well big plug to @EMPIRETECANDY. I’ve ordered 5 5231s to start with (I know I’ll need more, but there’s some primary areas I want to get covered first).

I’ve been monitoring the doorbell thread, but the options kind of suck. The primary purpose is really just for 2-way communication and package delivery, and a nice to have would be for it all to work nicely with blue Iris. But all the options seem to have crazy bugs or problems.


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Well big plug to @EMPIRETECANDY. I’ve ordered 5 5231s to start with (I know I’ll need more, but there’s some primary areas I want to get covered first).

I’ve been monitoring the doorbell thread, but the options kind of suck. The primary purpose is really just for 2-way communication and package delivery, and a nice to have would be for it all to work nicely with blue Iris. But all the options seem to have crazy bugs or problems.
@EMPIRETECANDY is great, as you've confirmed. Video doorbells, you've figured out. As cameras, they work well. As doorbells, they work well. As two-way comms, their apps and firmware are buggy. This generally results from them paring down their older intercom firmware to handle doorbells. I have the first Hikvision KB6003 (it's branded LTS) unit, and the video is good, and stable. The two-way comms worked well enough at first, then Hikvision AWS servers started sucking and it's not worth dropping/adding the device just to work around their bugs. I've been tempted to get the newer RCA-branded Hikvision unit, but haven't seen anything convincingly worth it, yet. :(
 

usafltg

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@EMPIRETECANDY The two-way comms worked well enough at first, then Hikvision AWS servers started sucking and it's not worth dropping/adding the device just to work around their bugs. I've been tempted to get the newer RCA-branded Hikvision unit, but haven't seen anything convincingly worth it, yet. :(
Yep... the RCA seems like the most promising, but again... no 2-way comms. Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I think i'm sticking with my Ring 2 and will just manage it as a separate app. It's not a primary means of "surveillance" anyways.
 
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