4k/8MP camera night vision

sygad1 · Jun 17, 2019

Hi All,

Been reading a lot recently as I want to overhaul my entire camera system, spent a few years "playing" now I would like to get a little more serious.

I'm very interested in the idea of 4k resolution but i'm reading a LOT that they are pretty awful at night.

Is there any movement in this statement? Any new cameras coming out/scheduled for release that address this?

Would additional IR illumination solve this problem?

I'm looking to spend approx £150 per camera if that frames the discussion more clearly.

(I've read the cliff notes but either I missed it or it hasn't answered how to solve the night vision problem, other than to suggest the dahua starlights.)

SouthernYankee · Jun 17, 2019

No all starlight or darkfighter are 2mp with a few new ones at 4mp.
Read the forum reviews on these cameras.

More megapixel in not necessarily better.

Look at real night video on a 4k display when checking cameras.

mat200 · Jun 17, 2019

sygad1 said:
Hi All,

Been reading a lot recently as I want to overhaul my entire camera system, spent a few years "playing" now I would like to get a little more serious.

I'm very interested in the idea of 4k resolution but i'm reading a LOT that they are pretty awful at night.

Is there any movement in this statement? Any new cameras coming out/scheduled for release that address this?

Would additional IR illumination solve this problem?

I'm looking to spend approx £150 per camera if that frames the discussion more clearly.

(I've read the cliff notes but either I missed it or it hasn't answered how to solve the night vision problem, other than to suggest the dahua starlights.)

Hi @sygad1

I would say the newer 8MP / "4k" (*) are not awful at night - just not as good as some lower resolution cameras which are designed for low light performance ( Dahua starlight, Hikvision nightfigther models )

If you have enough ambient light, they maybe good enough. This of course is a judgement call, one which you would need to decide on. Do check out the reviews by members to get a better idea. Especially look at some of the new 4MP starlight+ models that are now being reviewed.

( * - I use quotes as often the cameras are 4K UHD resolution, but only 15 fps - so it's really not completely what many people think as 4K )

MakeItRain · Jun 17, 2019

They are not THAT awful. I’ll post some 4K 8Mp pictures later on from a 1/1.8” camera. (I’m going to take a nap first). It is next to a starlight ptz 49225 and the 4K can hold its own.

aristobrat · Jun 17, 2019

MakeItRain said:
They are not THAT awful. I’ll post some 4K 8Mp pictures later on from a 1/1.8” camera.

Yeah, that particular image sensor is about as good as it gets for 4K low-light performance before the price of the camera shoots way up.

Most other 4K cameras use the smaller 1/2.5” sensor. Those are usually meh at best in low-light.

EMPIRETECANDY · Jun 17, 2019

sygad1 said:
Hi All,

Been reading a lot recently as I want to overhaul my entire camera system, spent a few years "playing" now I would like to get a little more serious.

I'm very interested in the idea of 4k resolution but i'm reading a LOT that they are pretty awful at night.

Is there any movement in this statement? Any new cameras coming out/scheduled for release that address this?

Would additional IR illumination solve this problem?

I'm looking to spend approx £150 per camera if that frames the discussion more clearly.

(I've read the cliff notes but either I missed it or it hasn't answered how to solve the night vision problem, other than to suggest the dahua starlights.)

Check these 2 cams.
Dahua HFW-1831E in-depth review
Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera

sygad1 · Jun 19, 2019

Thanks for the replies and nice to see that the tech is moving along.

15fps is not really what i'm after so thanks for mentioning that. I appreciate that CCTV and 15fps seem to be a popular choice, but if the camera is capable of more then really, i'd like to use it, network and storage are cheap nowadays.

@EMPIRETECANDY, thanks for referencing particular models, I seem to have spent more hours than I care to mention chasing down reviews and never really understanding or being confident that i'm reading the right review of the right equipment.

I'll be looking to purchase from you soon enough as i'm now looking for my "permanent" solution and want to make sure i've got decent equipment that can last a good few years into the future and is upgradeable, the cheap chinese cameras have afforded me the opportunity to investigate but I want to make this a proper solution now.

sygad1 · Jun 19, 2019

wow, that's quite an in-depth review.

are there equivalent cameras in a turret format?

As a side note, my current Hik cameras have "auto switch" and "scheduled switch" for day and night settings.

In "scheduled switch" I have greater control over the settings, for day and night independently, but I lose the ability to auto switch between those settings and when in auto mode, I lose the ability to have independent control of the settings.

Do the Dahua camera give me independent control and auto switching? I don't have any experience with Dahua cameras

aristobrat · Jun 19, 2019

No turrets in the 1831/2831 series yet.

The newer firmware versions do have a Day/Night option, but I don't have any experience with it.

I use the free DahuaSunriseSunset tool that @bp2008 (one of the admins here wrote). It runs on a Windows system in the background as a service, and at sunrise/sunset (plus or minus an optional offset that you can enter), it will flip the cameras between the day and night profiles. Based on your coordinates it automatically adjusts the sunrise/sunset times daily.

Also, if you have a camera with a varifocal lens (like the super-popular 5231 and 2231 varifocal turret models here), it can change the zoom and focus at these times as well.

sygad1 · Jun 19, 2019

@aristobrat, cheers for that, super helpful about the triggered day/night profile

I really like the design of the IPC-HDW5831R-ZE, (from an aesthetic POV), very smart looking, doesn't appear to be a starlight though, unless i'm reading the specs wrong, (probably), I can't see any mention of the Starvis CMOS or Starlight branding.

EMPIRETECANDY · Jun 19, 2019

sygad1 said:
@aristobrat, cheers for that, super helpful about the triggered day/night profile

I really like the design of the IPC-HDW5831R-ZE, (from an aesthetic POV), very smart looking, doesn't appear to be a starlight though, unless i'm reading the specs wrong, (probably), I can't see any mention of the Starvis CMOS or Starlight branding.

This camera is not using starlight tech,but also comes with very good cmos. Dahua HDW5831R-ZE review

aristobrat · Jun 19, 2019

sygad1 said:
I really like the design of the IPC-HDW5831R-ZE, (from an aesthetic POV), very smart looking, doesn't appear to be a starlight though, unless i'm reading the specs wrong, (probably), I can't see any mention of the Starvis CMOS or Starlight branding.

Your read of the specs looks good!

IMO, the 8MP 1/2.5" image sensor that the 5831 uses is in the STARVIS lineup... IMO, that sensor does better in low-light than the older, smaller, front illuminated 1/3" sensors, but it's a good deal away from performing as well as the 2MP 1/2.8" sensors used in most of the Starlight models.

sygad1 · Jun 20, 2019

I have been chatting on another thread about using multiple 8MP cameras and from what I can tell, i'll need the computing power of NASA to run it ;-)

I'm starting to think at this point that 8MP cameras are a little too new with regards to night vision and the computing power required to run 12+ cams with settings that I am looking for is too expensive right now.

sygad1 · Jun 21, 2019

So, i've been having a think, are there any recommendations for a turret camera, starlight that get as close to 8MP as possible

my overall objective is a healthy balance between day and night performance, I don't want to really compromise either but reality dictates that I probably will have to.

@fenderman suggested the 5831 would have poor night visibility

alternative suggestions very welcome

aristobrat · Jun 21, 2019

Dahua just came out with the 5442 series which use a new 4MP 1/1.8" sensor. Dahua considers these models to be "Starlight", but many comments in the review here still give the low-light edge to the 2MP Starlights, ... IMO, this series is as close to 2MP Starlight low-light image quality that we've seen so far (in this price range):
Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

It's not unusual for folks to build their system with a mix of cameras. They'll use higher MP cameras (that don't do as well in low-light) as "overview cameras" covering big areas (like the front, back, or side of a house), and then they'll have 2MP Starlights covering key areas, like zoomed in tight over cars in driveway, by gates going into the back yard, and by doors/on patios. At night, the higher MP cameras are still useful to tell that someone is there, and if that person wanders in front of a 2MP Starlight, then that's the shot that is used to identify them.

The 1831/2381 series have the newer 8MP/4K models (with a better sensor than the 5231 series), but they're not available in turrets.

sygad1 · Jun 21, 2019

@aristobrat thank you so much for the explanation, very useful and cheers for the link to the review, hadn't seen that one on my travels.

I don't think i'd get away with multiple cameras for different purposes, WAF is low with 8 cams and i'm already getting questioned about my 12 cam plan, hence the need for turrets, they look less "prisoney"

I had to move the Yale siren box from the front of the house as "yellow doesn't match the front of the house" FFS it nearly killed me putting up there in the 1st place

I've been lucky up to now with the IR illuminators, they can get stuck up high and are out of immediate eyeline

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4k/8MP camera night vision

sygad1

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SouthernYankee

mat200

MakeItRain

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aristobrat

EMPIRETECANDY

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EMPIRETECANDY

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sygad1

Young grasshopper