Outdoor Cam, facing property - finding a Wireless solution

Chocman · Jul 29, 2019

Hello all, I'm in the process of installing various Dahua cameras on my property and with the help of a very smart Dahua PTZ, I can cover 80% of the outside footprint apart from close up to the rear windows. So my thought was to fit a cam on the rear garden fence, aimed at the house rather than away from the house - nothing new.

The main camera type (apart from the PTZ) is Dahua 4K eyeball type, using POE. I've gone for the highest spec I can afford so as to 'future proof' a lttle. My credit card is feeling the strain!

It would be hard to run a Cat5e cable to the fence without digging up flags and a tonne of garden, so I was wondering if anyone has any experience of this and any ideas as to how I could make it run wirelessly, via my LAN, ultimately connecting (anyway) to my NVR? I can get power to the fence as luckly I've an outside mains socket nearby.

This must be a very common issue I imagine. Hopefully some of the wiser and more experinced than I, could suggest a solution.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

pinko · Jul 29, 2019

Maybe the Ubiquity LOCOM2's will do the trick?

TonyR · Jul 29, 2019

Chocman said:
I can get power to the fence as luckly I've an outside mains socket nearby.

In the past I have had very reliable and very powerful Ubiquiti NSM2 and Unifi AP devices (which are rock steady themselves) have periodic outages when connecting wireless to the not-so-steady wireless of the cameras with their tiny radios and poor sensitivity.

If you have line of sight from fence mounting area to house mounting area, I would consider using a pair of the smaller version of Ubiquiti radios configured as a Layer 2 Transparent Bridge between the NVR / your LAN to the fence cam. Cost? About $125 including outdoor preparation as noted below in last paragraph.

If too much, you might consider a pair of power line adapters; they might couple successfully, especially if you can find an outlet near your LAN / NVR that is connected to the same side of your "mains" as the outlet near the fence is on. Cost? About $75 including outdoor preparation as noted below in last paragraph.

I have a single TP-LINK power line adapter traveling about 80 feet because of a garage on a concrete slab with no ceiling access due to a bonus room above it and it's been rock-steady for over 3-1/2 years. To be honest, it's predecessor was running for 3-1/2 years, a nearby lighting strike took it out and it's mate in the house near my Blue Iris server and I replaced it this past March.

NOTE: With either scheme, at the outdoor end you'd have the expense of protecting the power line adapter OR the passive 24VDC POE injector for the UBNT radio from the elements (enclosure, etc.), likely about $25.

TonyR · Jul 29, 2019

BTW, should you decide to go with a Ubiquiti bridge, save some money by making your own mounts out of leftover 1" PVC parts. You'll likely have to buy the cross tee, but once you cut it in half with a hacksaw, you've got the 2 pieces needed for 2 mounts!

Most metal brackets are plated and are close to 8 to $10 USD, this mount may cost you $2 USD and NEVER rusts! You can run white electrical tape around the vertical part to make the surface more "grabby" for a stainless steel worm-gear radiator hose clamp or the supplied thick nylon wire tie.

You can likely cut the vertical pipe a bit to fit the smaller Loco radios, the picture is for its big brother, the NSM2's and 5's.

Chocman · Jul 29, 2019

Thank you @pinko and @TonyR for your replies, much appreciated and very helpful. I've already spent over £2,000 ($2,500 ish) and it's my business that's paying for it, so I'm after 'what works best', rather than a compromise. It's also my home, so that's why I want the best set up possibl

Chocman · Jul 30, 2019

hi @TonyR & @pinko I've been researching your very helpful suggestions, and it looks to me like the Ubiquity solution would suit best and I would be able to locate the cam with a 'line of sight' to my house. There seem to be a lot of different models of Ubiquity which is confusing me somewhat. Is it this model you were suggesting?

Ubiquiti airMAX M2 NanoStation Loco - LOCOM2

Also I am correct in saying that the main unit (mounted on the fence) is the transmitter, which is powered by a transformer (which is what needs protecting from the elements) and this sends WIFI to a 'base station' located on the side of my house which then connects, via cable to my NVR?

I also wasnt too sure TonyR what you meant by

TonyR said:
passive 24VDC POE injector for the UBNT radio

Not having ever seen a Ubiquity radio it's difficult to picture the set up. Thank you again in advance.

TonyR · Jul 30, 2019

Chocman said:
Is it this model you were suggesting?

Ubiquiti airMAX M2 NanoStation Loco - LOCOM2

Yes, but because you have excellent LOS (Line Of Sight), I'd opt for the 5 GHz version, as that spectrum will likely have less ambient pollution in your vicinity.

Chocman said:
Also I am correct in saying that the main unit (mounted on the fence) is the transmitter, which is powered by a transformer (which is what needs protecting from the elements) and this sends WIFI to a 'base station' located on the side of my house which then connects, via cable to my NVR?

Yes, one unit is configured as "Access Point / Bridge" and goes on the house. Its POE injector (pictured below) will be indoors so it's protected.The other unit is configured as "Station / Bridge" and goes on the fence. Because it's outdoors its POE injector must be protected from the elements. See below. At your fence (at the "Barn/Shop" location, just leave out the switch, connect the POE injector "POE" port to the Radio and it's "LAN" port to your camera.

Chocman · Jul 30, 2019

@TonyR Incredibly helpful of you, I'm extremely grateful for your time Sir.

TonyR · Jul 30, 2019

Chocman said:
@TonyR Incredibly helpful of you, I'm extremely grateful for your time Sir.

You're very welcome!

I might add be sure to use outdoor-rated cable outdoors, as Ubiquiti's warranty mandates that the outdoor segment be shielded (see note 3 in the drawing).

BTW, how is lightning in your geographical area?

Finally, here's a guide on configuration: Layer 2 Transparent Bridge

If you assign static IP's to both radios that are in the same subnet as your LAN and are outside of your router's DHCP pool, you can access them from your LAN to configure, check signal strength, survey spectrum, align antenna's etc.

bp2008 · Jul 30, 2019

This is what I'd pick: http://amzn.com/B07K351LGD It is a pair of the newest 5 GHz version.

When configuring the radios, choose the lowest channel width (10 MHz I think) and the lowest output power on both ends that produces an acceptable signal strength (-50 to -60 dBm). They'll come by default set to a much higher channel width and output power which is a waste of spectrum and makes the radios interfere worse with other 5 GHz activity in the area, as well as receive more interference from other 5 GHz activity.

Chocman · Jul 30, 2019

@TonyR

TonyR said:
BTW, how is lightning in your geographical area?

We do get lightning, but only very occasionally - I'm in Leicestershire in the UK.

bp2008 · Jul 30, 2019

Being in the UK you'll likely need to find a different product listing to get those radios. Beware that the "Loco AC" models do not come with power injectors unless they are included in a specific bundle like the one I linked, and they are not compatible with standard PoE which you use for IP cameras. You may need to therefore buy the ubiquiti 24 volt (half amp is fine) PoE injectors separately.

Chocman · Jul 30, 2019

@bp2008 Thanks for doing the research, that's the one for me! I just hope I can get this particular pack in the UK...I'm about to start the search! Cheers

bp2008 · Jul 30, 2019

One radio: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquiti-NS-5ACL-NanoStation-airMAX-Outdoor/dp/B079K3HN3T/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=loco+ac+5&qid=1564495423&s=gateway&sr=8-4
One 24v PoE injector (only good for 100 Mbps, but you don't need more than that anyway):https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquiti-Networks-POE-24-12W-External-Injector/dp/B00HXT8LPW/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=NS-5ACL&qid=1564495371&s=gateway&sr=8-7

Chocman · Jul 30, 2019

Another question if I may. If I purchased the Ubiquiti radios with the POE injector (as discussed above) would I be able to run one POE camera and plug a PC into it via Cat5 cable or Is it possible to connect my PC wirelessly to the remote Ubiquiti radio ?

The intended set up is:

I'm in a home garden office, remote from my house and difficult to hard wire. I've cams installed on the house that cover the garden and office. I want to place a cam facing the house. i.e. cams looking at cams. I'm also currently relying on WIFI from my house to my PC directly i.e. from the router to my PC. It works fine now, but only because I've carefully placed the router and this will need moved soon. This is a very rough diagram.

Any thoughts are much appreciated!

looney2ns · Jul 30, 2019

Chocman said:
Another question if I may. If I purchased the Ubiquiti radios with the POE injector (as discussed above) would I be able to run one POE camera and plug a PC into it via Cat5 cable or Is it possible to connect my PC wirelessly to the remote Ubiquiti radio ?

The intended set up is:

I'm in a home garden office, remote from my house and difficult to hard wire. I've cams installed on the house that cover the garden and office. I want to place a cam facing the house. i.e. cams looking at cams. I'm also currently relying on WIFI from my house to my PC directly i.e. from the router to my PC. It works fine now, but only because I've carefully placed the router and this will need moved soon. This is a very rough diagram.

View attachment 45430

Any thoughts are much appreciated!

You would need to add a switch as depicted in @TonyR diagram in post #6 above.

Chocman · Jul 30, 2019

What's the purpose of the switch? I'm not an IT guy but pick things up quickly....sometimes

TonyR · Jul 30, 2019

Chocman said:
What's the purpose of the switch? I'm not an IT guy but pick things up quickly....sometimes

The POE injector has only 1 LAN port; 1 camera and 1 PC will require 2 LAN ports; so connect POE injector's LAN port to switch, then run cam to switch and PC to switch.

A network switch is basically a hub but with some "smarts" in order to perform data traffic cop duty (packet movement, collision control, etc.) amongst the devices plugged into it.

A POE switch will also provide power to POE devices, like a POE camera. As noted by @bp2008, many UBNT devices such as the ones suggested, use passive 24VDC POE and are NOT compatible with the POE as used by "POE cameras", which generally conform to 802.3af or 802.3at specs.

Excerpt from Wikipedia: "Unlike less advanced repeater hubs, which broadcast the same data out of each of its ports and let the devices decide what data they need, a network switch forwards data only to the devices that need to receive it."

If you set up the bridge as per the UBNT instructions, the AirMax and WDS protocol and channel width will NOT allow you to utilize the wireless signal on your PC, smartphone or tablet....it will be strictly for the Layer 2 transparent bridge to use. It can be configured to allow such access but the noise immunity, efficiency, reliability and speed of the bridge would not be optimum, so it is NOT recommended.

Chocman · Jul 31, 2019

Many thanks again @TonyR

dudemaar · Jul 31, 2019

I had a similar dilemma recently and opted for the shallow trench with a good heavy duty garden edger, pick axe and some elbow grease. Good luck with the project.

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Outdoor Cam, facing property - finding a Wireless solution

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