Recommendations on camera and NVR

patrickkc

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Hi all

I am completely new to this and have done some reading but there is too much information to a point that it gets very confusing. I got some recommendations for Hikvsion cameras, since I was looking at the cheap Costco Lorex ones. I as planning on looking at the 4k 8mp "2CD2385G1" but the more I read, it seems 8mp is bad for night time. A little information about where I will have it installed. I live in a townhouse, 25ft lot only with backyard facing a ravine which is pretty much pitch black at night. There is a led street lamp right outside my house probably 20ft. I have 3 roughed in cat 6 cables from the builder. 2 in front, (one above the garage, one above the front door, and 1 above my backyard door) I am in a middle unit so there isn't any sides to my house. I am thinking I probably don't even need 4k 8mp for the backyard since during night time it's pitch black there. The front facing ones, because the street is pretty well lit, do I need 8mp 4k as well? Would it be possible I can get away with having 3 4mp ones instead?
 

RBW

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Yes it is very confusing when deciding what to buy. So many variables and it is never clear cut.
Lens size, available light etc. That said cameras are improving all the time. If the Hikvision ColorVu cameras did not have the annoying bright LED light it would be a no brainier. Hang on another 3-4 years and I’m sure the perfect product will be available.
 

lewic

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I personally have used the Lorex systems and they are usable but you get what you pay for. Housing on the cameras are plastic and the videos do not have a very vibrant color. On the other hand... It depends on the price point that you want to stay within. If you are wanting to get 4k (8mp) The low light capability is not there yet and would give you a very low frames per second. Usually it would be around 15-20 max.

That being said... I would recommend Hikvision or a Hikvision OEM. They have 4, 8, 16 channel NVR. 16 channel may be overkill for you. It is always good to get something bigger than you need due to future upgrading and also due to higher channel units will be faster. i.e.- No resources error on Hikvision units when trying to display too many high megapixel cameras on main stream at the same time. Most popular Hikvision unit would be the "I" series. DS-7608NI-I2. If you would like something more budget friendly then LTS is a Hikvision OEM and their version is called LTN8608-P8. It is the same unit. Just the color scheme on the interface is different. Still running the GUI 4.0 on it. Cameras I would recommend the ColorVu. Max megapixel available at the moment for that camera is 4mp. DS-2CD2347G1-L is the model number for that. LTS model is the CMIP3C42W-M. Good thing about this camera is the sensor. It has a larger sensor and can display color 24 hours a day. Lens for the cameras are just personal preference.

2.8mm - 105 degrees field of view
4mm - 89 degrees
6mm - 54 degrees
 

lewic

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Yes it is very confusing when deciding what to buy. So many variables and it is never clear cut.
Lens size, available light etc. That said cameras are improving all the time. If the Hikvision ColorVu cameras did not have the annoying bright LED light it would be a no brainier. Hang on another 3-4 years and I’m sure the perfect product will be available.
ColorVu camera don't need to have the LED on. On the IP versions you will just log into the camera using the camera's IP address, go to configuration and then are able to turn off the LED or even adjust how bright it gets. I personally have mine turned off and I still get perfect color at night. On the analog (HD-TVI) version then just select the camera and pull up the PTZ controls and go to preset 95 to get the options for the camera. Then you can turn off the LED or adjust the brightness.
 

looney2ns

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Hi all

I am completely new to this and have done some reading but there is too much information to a point that it gets very confusing. I got some recommendations for Hikvsion cameras, since I was looking at the cheap Costco Lorex ones. I as planning on looking at the 4k 8mp "2CD2385G1" but the more I read, it seems 8mp is bad for night time. A little information about where I will have it installed. I live in a townhouse, 25ft lot only with backyard facing a ravine which is pretty much pitch black at night. There is a led street lamp right outside my house probably 20ft. I have 3 roughed in cat 6 cables from the builder. 2 in front, (one above the garage, one above the front door, and 1 above my backyard door) I am in a middle unit so there isn't any sides to my house. I am thinking I probably don't even need 4k 8mp for the backyard since during night time it's pitch black there. The front facing ones, because the street is pretty well lit, do I need 8mp 4k as well? Would it be possible I can get away with having 3 4mp ones instead?
On a real computer, study this: Clliff Notes
 

SouthernYankee

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:welcome:
read study plan before spending money.
Bundled kits are a compromise, so they can keep the cost down.
----------------------------------------------

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
16) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
17) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart


Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
 

patrickkc

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I've gone through much of the wiki and have read another 20 page thread from a different forum. I think I'm ultimately down to DS-2CD2385FWD-l or DS-2CD2383G0-l. Both are 8mp 4k with the aliexpress store I'm buying from says the latter is "new" model. But a member from a different forum pointed out that the "new" one is 15fps where else the discontinued 2385 is 20fps at 3840 x 2160. There is another choice with 4mp DS-2CD2343G0-l but with shipping it costs only $19 less than the 2385 which makes me lean more towards the 2385.

I've also read that many people start with 4 cameras but it's recommended to get 8channel NVR when using 4 cameras. Understand that, but if I am going to stay with 3 cameras , will having a 4 channel NVR be good enough ? for 3 cameras recording at 4k continuous . Not planning on adding anymore cameras / need anymore.
 

SouthernYankee

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Look at the processing power of the NVR look at the bandwidth processing. calculate your band width requirements.

If you want good night vision, then DO NOT USE 4K cameras. More megapixels is not better. Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
If you are using these as surveillance cameras you do not need more than 15 FPS, you are not shooting a Hollywood movie.
 

lewic

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Best night vision currently I have seen are 4 megapixels. They are starting to make good low light cameras that are 5 megapixels but I would still recommend 4 mp. Anything higher will have a lot of noise in the picture as it is trying to add more pixels to a picture without much details to begin with.

That being said... higher megapixels is not always better. A better sensor inside the camera is key. On average a camera set to 12 - 15 FPS is what I recommend to everyone. Anything higher will mostly just use more hard drive space. The only time you would need higher would be if you are running a license plate camera then those will be set at 60 FPS.
 

aristobrat

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If the Hikvision ColorVu cameras did not have the annoying bright LED light it would be a no brainier.
Yeah, I don’t know why Hik doesn’t make an affordable IR version of the ColorVu like Dahua does.

@patrickkc, I’d look at the model below. Its got the same great 4MP 1/1.8” low-light image sensor as the Hik ColorVu, but uses IR instead of LED if additional lighting is needed (like in your back yard).

 

lewic

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Yeah, I don’t know why Hik doesn’t make an affordable IR version of the ColorVu like Dahua does.

@patrickkc, I’d look at the model below. Its got the same great 4MP 1/1.8” low-light image sensor as the Hik ColorVu, but uses IR instead of LED if additional lighting is needed (like in your back yard).


What price range are you looking for? It won’t necessarily be a ColorVu. It will be more in the lines of a Darkfighter which I have see many that are at a good price point.
 

RBW

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What price range are you looking for? It won’t necessarily be a ColorVu. It will be more in the lines of a Darkfighter which I have see many that are at a good price point.
5 series? Good price!
 
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The DS-2CD2385FWD-I is obsolete, and the DS-2CD2383G0-l will be obsolete soon as well. In fact, it already is obsolete in the sense that two-generation newer Hikvision cameras are available on the international market.

I've got three cameras in use right now: DS-2CD2T35FWD-I5 (3 MP bullet, low light), DS-2CD2145FWD-I (4 MP dome), and a DS-2CD2T86G2-2I (8 MP bullet, newest generation). That 8 MP bullet is very impressive at night. See attached photo. I would get it over any of the cameras you mentioned. It has better night time specs than either of the cameras you found, and motion detection is more refined. If you really need a turret, then get the DS-2CD2386G2-I. The CCD and lens have better low light gathering capability than the G2 bullet, but its IR lights are not as powerful, so it won't see as far at night as the G2 bullet.

 

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patrickkc

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Ah, I see. I know the 2385 is discontinued, but couldn't quite figure out what it was replaced with. I found a seller on aliexpress that was recommended on another forum. It had the 2385 for $182 cad. I found that to be pretty good price and the NVR that was recommended was DS-7608NI-K2/8P at $321cad. That is why I asked if there are any 4 channel NVRs that would work for me since I will be only having 3 cameras. Price is definitely a consideration point. From that seller if I buy 3 2385s + 7608 NVR, it works out to around $870cad. Do you have link to where I can check out the 2386G2-l? I'm guessing pricing wise it's gonna be much more expensive?
 

aristobrat

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What price range are you looking for? It won’t necessarily be a ColorVu. It will be more in the lines of a Darkfighter which I have see many that are at a good price point.
I was thinking the same price range as the ColorVu.

IMO it’s the 4MP 1/1.8” image sensor that makes the ColorVu such a great camera, but I’d imagine most folks would prefer an IR model (instead of LED) for most situations.

Dahua has such a model for $10 more.

With Hikvision it looks like it’s $100+ more for a 4MP 1/1.8” with IR model.

IMO, that stinks as the 4MP 1/1.8” image sensor is one of the best for low-light image performance. Based on Hik’s minimum illumination specs, it’s 7-13.5x more sensitive in low light than the sensors in their 8MP models.
 
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