4MP Domes for the best solution?

djmt99 · Oct 19, 2015

Welp, I just had a long and detailed post that took me all day to write (in bits and pieces), and I just lost it because of an invalid web token... So, now that I am defeated, I will summarize and go enjoy a cold one! :very_drunk:

I'm switching from a multi-bullet cam 460 TVL DVR system to a HD IP system. I want 4MP domes with on-board SD storage for redundancy, even though I will be integrating with Blue Iris. I've read that turrets are better than domes, however I can't find a turret to meet my needs. I'm anti-bullet as I have recurring spider/web issues in the warmer months.

I've narrowed down my choices to 2 options: Multiple 2.8mm's for overview and 2x 2.8mm-12mm vari's for front/rear license plate capturing.

2.8mm fixed: Platinum CMIP7442W-28M (aka Hikvision DS-2CD2142FWD-I)
2.8-12mm vari: CMIP7243W-S (aka Hik 2CD2742FWD-I)

Considering my requirements, are these the best suited cameras? Alternate suggestions?

More importantly, why are domes inferior to turrets? I wonder why Hik hasn't come out with a turret with SD?

klasipca · Oct 19, 2015

This is the best and cost effective solution currently: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/5456-Mini-PTZ-camera-impressions!-2015-PTZ-camera-of-the-year

fenderman · Oct 19, 2015

There is no turret with SD. Domes will have spider issues as well. The turret design helps because the IR and lens are separated. The turret is also does not suffer from IR reflection like the dome can if not properly installed.
If you want a backup with turrets you can use an NVR recording 24/7 in a separate location in your home.

CaliCam · Oct 20, 2015

fenderman said:
There is no turret with SD. Domes will have spider issues as well. The turret design helps because the IR and lens are separated. The turret is also does not suffer from IR reflection like the dome can if not properly installed.
If you want a backup with turrets you can use an NVR recording 24/7 in a separate location in your home.

Hello Fenderman

When you say "There is no turret with SD" are you referring to the Hikvision line of Camera's? Because I'm told that Dahua will have this model available sometime this week http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products_category/4-megapixels-543_2.html.

Michelin Man · Oct 20, 2015

^Yes, Hikvision doesn't offer the turret with a SD card slot. At the time being anyways, it would be nice if they did.

I'm not too familiar with Dahua, but if you said that's coming out soon then they didn't have it before either.

fenderman · Oct 20, 2015

CaliCam said:
Hello Fenderman

When you say "There is no turret with SD" are you referring to the Hikvision line of Camera's?

Yes, hikvision.

djmt99 · Oct 20, 2015

klasipca said:
This is the best and cost effective solution currently: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/5456-Mini-PTZ-camera-impressions!-2015-PTZ-camera-of-the-year

Thanks, but this camera is a) a bullet, b) 2MP, and c) no SD storage.

fenderman said:
Domes will have spider issues as well.

Do they? I've read quite a few posts here that suggest otherwise because domes (and turrets) are round and don't offer much of a "home" for web spinning. Bullets tend to have corners and open areas, especially around the front edge of the hood. That's how it goes for me at least. Are you saying that there is less arachnid interference with the turret, or just none at all?

fenderman said:
If you want a backup with turrets you can use an NVR recording 24/7 in a separate location in your home.

I've thought about this as well. My only concern is that if the network (ie: router) goes down, I'll lose any data connectivity. Since I'll be using a POE switch, the units will still have power.

CaliCam said:
I'm told that Dahua will have this model available sometime this week http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products_category/4-megapixels-543_2.html.

This is interesting. I just may hold off!

fenderman · Oct 20, 2015

The turrets reduce spider issues significantly...well worth it.
If you hook your NVR to the same switch as the cameras, it will not be dependent on the router...you could turn the router off and the cameras will still stream. If the switch fails then your cameras wont record to sd anyways as they have no power. Also, complete router failure is extremely rare. I have personally never seen it.

djmt99 · Oct 20, 2015

fenderman said:
If you hook your NVR to the same switch as the cameras, it will not be dependent on the router

Good point. Ok, since I haven't researched much into NVR's, what would you suggest for an 8-cam system (with a little room for possible expansion in the future).

fenderman said:
Also, complete router failure is extremely rare. I have personally never seen it.

You'd think... I have the worst luck with routers, and I usually don't skimp out on that part of the network as everything revolves around it.

klasipca · Oct 20, 2015

djmt99 said:
Thanks, but this camera is a) a bullet, b) 2MP, and c) no SD storage.

1) It's a Ptz Camera.
2) it has 10x zoom which offers flexible placement. Night time quality is much much better then any 4mp domes or turrets
3) according to description it could have SD card slot, but I haven't checked that. Perhaps it's configuration that can be added

It's your choice I am just giving you food for thought. I replaced all my 4Mp/3Mp domes and turrets with these.

djmt99 · Oct 20, 2015

klasipca said:
1) It's a Ptz Camera.
2) it has 10x zoom which offers flexible placement. Night time quality is much much better then any 4mp domes or turrets
3) according to description it could have SD card slot, but I haven't checked that. Perhaps it's configuration that can be added

Thanks! I'll do a little more research on these. I'd really like to keep the transaction to this side of the pond, but maybe I'll try one or two of these on an antenna mast in the backyard!

SquareEyes · Oct 24, 2015

djmt99 said:
Thanks! I'll do a little more research on these. I'd really like to keep the transaction to this side of the pond, but maybe I'll try one or two of these on an antenna mast in the backyard!

I have been researching just this. I am not a HAM operator but find their forums a little bit helpful for lightning protection of a mast but yet to find a best practices information for CCTV installations.

djmt99 if you have any experience with this, be interested. Apologies if you feel this is OT or thread hijacking.

CDAPete · Nov 9, 2015

I just competed my install of 8 4MP IP cams and Blue Iris 4. I am very impressed by BI4. It's like a dream come true after dealing with analog systems for so many years. The only issue I am having, which has come as a real surprise, is that these 4MP cameras do not record a car's license plate clearly enough to be read. Even if the plate is just 50-60 feet away. It still looks fuzzy. As far as I know I am recording at the highest resolution the camera has and even when I digitally zoom as much as possible the letters just fall apart and pixelate. I tried setting my camera shutter speed to 1/60 to see if this would help and I am recording at 15FPS (not that this should matter). Granted, these are not high-end cameras (AvertX 4MP Bullet cams) but I was sure that I would be able to read a plate in day light especially when the car barely moving. Any thought on this? Could there be some sort of resolution setting that I'm missing?

RBW · Nov 9, 2015

Michelin Man said:
^Yes, Hikvision doesn't offer the turret with a SD card slot. At the time being anyways, it would be nice if they did.

I'm saving my dollars for when the do. Hopefully it will not be too long to wait.

A Hikvision 4Mp Turret with SD slot please for Christmas

fenderman · Nov 9, 2015

CDAPete said:
I just competed my install of 8 4MP IP cams and Blue Iris 4. I am very impressed by BI4. It's like a dream come true after dealing with analog systems for so many years. The only issue I am having, which has come as a real surprise, is that these 4MP cameras do not record a car's license plate clearly enough to be read. Even if the plate is just 50-60 feet away. It still looks fuzzy. As far as I know I am recording at the highest resolution the camera has and even when I digitally zoom as much as possible the letters just fall apart and pixelate. I tried setting my camera shutter speed to 1/60 to see if this would help and I am recording at 15FPS (not that this should matter). Granted, these are not high-end cameras (AvertX 4MP Bullet cams) but I was sure that I would be able to read a plate in day light especially when the car barely moving. Any thought on this? Could there be some sort of resolution setting that I'm missing?

60 feet is quite the distance to read a plate. I believe the 4mp avertx bullet cameras are 2.8mm lenses which makes it even worse. You simply dont have sufficient pixel density. Also in blue iris ensure that you are recording direct to disk.

Q™ · Nov 9, 2015

djmt99 said:
...I've narrowed down my choices to 2 options: Multiple 2.8mm's for overview and 2x 2.8mm-12mm vari's for front/rear license plate capturing...

=Good LPR is not going to happen with that camera IMO. Have a read of Lare's plate read experiments with the Huisun Mini PTZ, here (Page #5)...

https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/6442-Huisun-10x-PTZ-mini-bullet-garage-installation/page5

CDAPete · Nov 10, 2015

Fenderman: Thanks for your response. As you know, I am just getting started with BI4 so I have not sorted out the finer points of my recording choices. Can you elaborate on your comment regarding "Direct to Disk?" I don't see a setting suggesting it would record one way or the other. One of the considerations I am now facing is this: what would be a practical choice for a secure backup on a 'Cloud' of some type (off site)? Right now I am faced with buying an NAS for $300-$500 and having secure it in a hidden location and provide power and cabling to it. I have a 12MPS DSL connection here at my home and wonder if I might be able to use Dropbox or something similar. I'm sure this has been asked and answered somewhere but wondered what you might suggest. In the mean time please know that I am blown away by BI4.

Q™ · Nov 10, 2015

CDAPete said:
Fenderman:...Can you elaborate on your comment regarding "Direct to Disk?" I don't see a setting suggesting it would record one way or the other...

Select (click on) A Camera > (right click the camera & select) Camera Properties > Record > Video File Format & Compression... > Direct-To-Disk

CDAPete · Nov 10, 2015

When I choose a camera and then right click it, I have a choice at the very bottom of the drop-down called Hardware Property Pages but it does not function (can't open it further or make any choices for some reason). There is nothing specifically for "Camera...". Also, I realized that I misstated my DSL specs. While it is 12Mps down it is only 1Mps up so storing video offsite is probably out of the question. Even if I could just store the occasional triggered Snapshots from critical cameras (2-3 of them) this would give me more peace of mind. I wonder what would be the best service to use to store these offsite.

Q2U said:
Select (click on) A Camera > (right click the camera & select) Camera Properties > Record > Video File Format & Compression... > Direct-To-Disk

CDAPete · Nov 10, 2015

I'm a moron. Sorry, I just found it as you stated.

I wasn't looking in the Video File Format window. This is what happens when you stay up all night learning this stuff.

Q2U said:
Select (click on) A Camera > (right click the camera & select) Camera Properties > Record > Video File Format & Compression... > Direct-To-Disk

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4MP Domes for the best solution?

djmt99

Young grasshopper

klasipca

Banned

fenderman

CaliCam

Young grasshopper

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Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it

fenderman

djmt99

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fenderman

djmt99

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klasipca

Banned

djmt99

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SquareEyes

Getting the hang of it

CDAPete

Getting comfortable

RBW

Getting the hang of it

fenderman

Q™

CDAPete

Getting comfortable

Q™

CDAPete

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CDAPete

Getting comfortable