A Poor Mans Dark Fighter?

[SyconsciousAu]

Been cruising around Ali and came across this camera

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2-2-0-megapixels-Progressive-Sony-IMX185-CMOS-0-001Lux-Starlight-H-265-2-0mp/32387573836.html

Specs look impressive for US$170

1/2" 2.0 megapixels Progressive Sony IMX185 CMOS 0. 001Lux Starlight H.265 2.0mp CCTV Box IP Camera(SIP-E03-200STA)

Model	SIP-E03-200STA
Camera Type	Starlight H.265 2.0mp Box IP Camera
Camera
Image Sensor	1/2" 2.0 megapixels Progressive Sony IMX185 CMOS
DSP	Hisilicon 3516A
Effective Pixels	1920(H)x1080(V)
Scanning System	Progressive
Electronic Shutter	Auto (1/25 ~ 1/100000s)
Min. Illumination	0. 001Lux/F1.2 (Color)

I couldn't help noticing how close the specs appeared to Hikvisions DS-2CD6026FHWD-(A) Darkfighter when it came to low light ability.

Image Sensor:	|	1/1.8" Progressive Scan CMOS
Signal System:	|	PAL/NTSC
Min. Illumination:	|	Color: 0.001 Lux @ (F1.2, AGC ON) B/W: 0.0001 Lux @ (F1.2, AGC ON)
Shutter time:	|	1/1 s to 1/100,000 s

Also came across this one from the same store for US$280

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-1-8-SONY-CMOS-WDR-3DNR-ICR-BLC-Low-illumination-H-265-2-1-Megapixels/32304993068.html

Model	SIP-F19HGAP
Camera Type	H.265 2.1 Megapixels low illumination Box IP Camera
Hardware
Image Sensor	1/1.8" SONY Exmor Sensor, Progressive Scan CMOS
CPU	Hisilicon 3516A
Effective Pixels	1920 x 1080 2.1 mega pixel
Scanning System	Progressive
Electronics Shutter	Auto (1/25,1/30 ~ 1/10000s)
Min. Illumination	0.002LuX/F1.2 (Color), 0.0002LuX/F1.2(B/W)
S/N Ratio	>50dB(AGC OFF)
WDR	>100db

Again it appears remarkable similar in specification to the Hikvision DS-2CD4026FWD-(A)(P) Darkfighter

Image Sensor:	|	1/1.8" Progressive Scan CMOS
Signal System:	|	PAL/NTSC
Min. Illumination:	|	Color: 0.002 Lux @ (F1.2, AGC ON) B/W: 0.0002 Lux @ (F1.2, AGC ON)
Shutter time:	|	1s ~ 1/100,000s
Slow shutter:	|	Support
Lens Mount:	|	C/CS mount
Auto Iris:	|	DC drive(-P: support P-Iris)
Day& Night:	|	IR cut filter with auto switch
Wide Dynamic Range:	|	120 dB

Maybe I should wait a couple of weeks and at least get the new speed dome tested and mounted before I go spending another $US200 on another camera that I want but dont really need.

 

[Del Boy]

It's not the same. It's supposed to be an IMX322 alternative but I see these sellers are trying to sell it as a IMX178 alternative.

It's nice that it's in colour but it's not very sharp is the problem. I actually prefer the dark-fighers in B&W mode, the image is super sharp compared to colour mode.

 

[SyconsciousAu]

It's not the same. It's supposed to be an IMX322 alternative but I see these sellers are trying to sell it as a IMX178 alternative.

It's nice that it's in colour but it's not very sharp is the problem. I actually prefer the dark-fighers in B&W mode, the image is super sharp compared to colour mode.

You sound like you might have some experience with the camera / image sensor. Would love to hear more.

 

[Dragon]

A guy here did a low light comparison with many cameras including IMX225 and IMX225 won by a huge margin. He even lists a source for the camera (without enclosure) for $25!

 

[klasipca]

Imx225 is not that great, Longse makes cams with it as well you can compare with imx178

 

[Dragon]

Imx225 is not that great, Longse makes cams with it as well you can compare with imx178

What is that video supposed to be showing me? Without a comparison to IMX178 of the same scene I don't see the point.

You can tell me if I'm interpreting this wrong, but Sony's spec sheets show the following:

IMX225 Sensitivity (F5.6): 2350mV, 1/30s accumulation.
IMX185 Sensitivity (F5.6): 1120mV, 1/30s accumulation.
IMX178 Sensitivity (F5.6): 425mV, 1/30s accumulation.

I'm interpreting sensitivity as how much light they measure in 1/30s. 225 is over twice as sensitive as 185, which is almost 3 times as sensitive as 178.

225 Spec sheet shows this image captured at 0.05lux:


185 spec sheet shows the same image captured at 1lux:


And the 178 spec sheet at 1lux:


Yes, the 1lux images have much less noise, but they also have 20 times more light to work with and the overall brightness of each image is the same as 225 at 0.05lux.

It's harder to be sure if the 1lux 185 vs 178 image is better (178 looks more noisy to me but slightly brighter as if they used higher gain), but I did find this direct comparison of 185 vs 178 and it looks like 185 captures way more in dark areas with less noise:

 

[klasipca]

Here is IMX178 of the same scene and you can find a few more videos of IMX225 in that channel:


It could have better sensitivity, but for me 720p resolution is really unimpressive

 

[spixel]

Here is IMX178 of the same scene and you can find a few more videos of IMX225 in that channel:


It could have better sensitivity, but for me 720p resolution is really unimpressive

Just found this sensor, imx123 . Here it is vs imx178. 0.1lux with no IR https://shopdelta.eu/ip-cameras-without-lens_l2_c619.html

imx123 https://shopdelta.eu/obrazki1/gemini-3010b_img0.1lux_d.jpg

imx178 https://shopdelta.eu/obrazki1/gemini-5010b-3_img0.1lux_d.jpg

 

[Dragon]

Thanks for the comparison video. At first glance 178 looks much brighter in shadows, but I brought them in to Photoshop for some gamma correction and they aren't all that different (other than in resolution, which does help a lot in this case):



Unfortunately in the 178 video the lights in that corner of the building are on so I assume it's got significantly more light to work with. I also suspect the video compression on youtube may have hurt some of the details in the dark areas since it looks very blobby. I couldn't find any other shadowed areas that seemed like a good comparison.

Where I plan to use the camera will have absolutely no lights (unless a security light is triggered, or I decide to install IR lights) so I'm still leaning towards the greater sensitivity of 225. I actually plan to mount a 225 and a 178 pointing at the same area from different angles so I'll be able to post a direct comparison eventually.

 

[klasipca]

The difference isn't a ground breaking in terms of sensitivity, but resolution... 5MP is the way to go for me.

 

[spixel]

Thanks for the comparison video. At first glance 178 looks much brighter in shadows, but I brought them in to Photoshop for some gamma correction and they aren't all that different (other than in resolution, which does help a lot in this case):

View attachment 9242

Unfortunately in the 178 video the lights in that corner of the building are on so I assume it's got significantly more light to work with. I also suspect the video compression on youtube may have hurt some of the details in the dark areas since it looks very blobby. I couldn't find any other shadowed areas that seemed like a good comparison.

Where I plan to use the camera will have absolutely no lights (unless a security light is triggered) so I'm still leaning towards the greater sensitivity of 225. I actually plan to mount a 225 and a 178 pointing at the same area from different angles so I'll be able to post a direct comparison eventually.

imx238 looks much better than imx225

238 https://shopdelta.eu/ip-vandalproof-camera-apti-13v2-36b-onvif-2-0-3-6-mm_l2_p8338.html

225 https://shopdelta.eu/ip-vandalproof-camera-apti-13v2-36w-onvif-2-0-960p-3-6-mm_l2_p6834.html

178 https://shopdelta.eu/ip-vandalproof-camera-apti-50v4-5w-onvif-2-4-5-mpx-5-mm_l2_p8982.html

 

[Dragon]

imx238 looks much better than imx225

238 https://shopdelta.eu/ip-vandalproof-camera-apti-13v2-36b-onvif-2-0-3-6-mm_l2_p8338.html

225 https://shopdelta.eu/ip-vandalproof-camera-apti-13v2-36w-onvif-2-0-960p-3-6-mm_l2_p6834.html

178 https://shopdelta.eu/ip-vandalproof-camera-apti-50v4-5w-onvif-2-4-5-mpx-5-mm_l2_p8982.html

According to the IMX 238 spec, 225 is still almost twice as sensitive as 238:

IMX238 Sensitivity (F5.6): 1300mV (assuming 1/30s accumulation though they don't say)
IMX225 Sensitivity (F5.6): 2350mV, 1/30s accumulation.

As to your links, as I showed in my previous reply, those camera sellers can make one camera look much better by using incorrect adjustments or a bad lens on the other camera, so I don't know how much stock to put in your comparison links. I strongly lean toward trusting the Sony specs at this point.