Actual human detection vs Camera "Intrusion Detection" features

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by emerb, Aug 28, 2018.

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  1. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    Anybody has experimented with or has any recommendations on how to deal with this?

    I had the opportunity to test Dahua and Hikvision cameras.
    They both have really nice "smart features" as they are able to detect when:
    • "Something" is crossing a line.
    • "Something" is entering or leaving an area.
    • "Something" is moving through the picture.
    However, "something" could be a person, tree leaves, a cat wondering around or even a shadow from a tree.

    While I can see these features being bulletproof indoors (where the only thing moving should be a person), they become almost useless outdoors (for me at least) due to trees, wind, animals and even the occasional spider crawling in front of the camera.

    So I was wondering: Isn't there already a solution that can detect human body and alert me only - and if only - a person is present? If not, how are you remediating false positives?

    With today's technology the perfect solution is so "easy" to build that I almost can't believe a it doesn't already exist.

    If I can't find anything I might build it, the principle is simple (using AI):
    • Tap in one of the camera's stream or NVR (low res, low frame rate )
    • Continuously run each frame through a pre-trained model
    • Take action if it detects a person, an animal or both in at least one frame.
    Actions could be:
    • Communicate with NVR so it can bookmark the video or use its built in alert system
    • Send an email or text message with the video frame.
    • Depending on time of the night, turn lights on (through integration with smart home) and... wake me up so I can take a shoot at the bastard :)
    The goal is simple: Be aware of people wondering around my house while filtering out all false positives.
     
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  2. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    They make excellent outdoor rated PIR motion sensors for this.
    And Blue Iris can do a MUCH better job when properly tuned than any in camera or NVR based motion.
     
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  3. eggsan

    eggsan Getting the hang of it

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    Camera image sensors are almost useless to perform an effective detection. Instead, use an external PIR, as mentioned by looney2ns. I can only speak about NVR input relays, connected to wired/wireless PIR sensors (understand BI is superior in terms of the conditional if/then statements). Recommend the PIR with combined Infrared/Microwave detection, in which the two technologies needs to be crossed in order to triggered the alert.
     
  4. john-ipvm

    john-ipvm Known around here

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    We recently tested Nest, Arlo, Ring and they did quite well, much better than low-cost professional cameras like Dahua, Hikvision and Uniview. In particular, Nest and Ring had person detection and Nest worked extremely well. Of course, those products are more expensive and require monthly charges. Related, from our test:
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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  6. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    Thanks everyone, lots of good information. Love the comparison chart between those cameras.

    @looney2ns @eggsan I thought about a PIR sensor but all my searches came out empty so I gave up.
    Maybe because I was looking for something very specific:
    • No lights attached to it, just the sensor.
    • Outdoor
    • Z-Wave
    • Battery powered
    Do you have something you can recommend? Even it not zwave, if it is a good PIR sensor I can wire it to a Z-Wave door window sensor to open and close it and then I will be all set.
     
  7. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    This "Object detection" post you referred to is exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe I should join the discussion there.
    Meanwhile if I can find some decent PIR sensors out there I will definitely go for it.
     
  8. eggsan

    eggsan Getting the hang of it

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    emerb, look for the Optex VX-i (Infiniti) series, it includes both wired and wireless PIR. You may go ok with the wired dual tech series.The wireless series are battery power and include a compartment for the transmitter contact, normally intended for security alarm panels.
     
  9. eggsan

    eggsan Getting the hang of it

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    in case you need to use the wireless PIR (stand-alone, without a security panel), check the Inovonics Echostream Relay Output Receiver, model EN4204 (4 channels), EN4216 (16CH) or EN4232 (32CH). The wireless transmitter (to include inside the VX-i compartment) is model EN1210. After programming each zones, just connect the output of the receiver directly to the NVR input.
     
  10. Francisco73

    Francisco73 Getting the hang of it

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    We are low tech and have dogs. When they alert I go out and later check recordings if necessary.
     
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  11. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    Wow, looked into the documentation (manufacturer website) and this thing looks good - pretty expense if compared to some others I have found but if it works as promised it is well worth it.
     
  12. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    It is easier, cheaper and very reliable :lol:
     
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  13. eggsan

    eggsan Getting the hang of it

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    Yes, Optex is an installer favorite. You won't go wrong with it
     
  14. Francisco73

    Francisco73 Getting the hang of it

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    In addition to an alert some dogs will attack especially night time. We have a fence and a wall and the gate is locked. Nobody can accidentally be attacked by the dogs.
     
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  15. nats

    nats Getting the hang of it

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    Human detection is tricky. We used to offer it as cloud, but it has the problem that you have to send your footage outside into someones cloud (ring, arlo, nest, they all do this)

    We now focus on facial recognition for intrusion detection. it is accurate and you get alerts for unknown individuals too.
     
  16. Eggin

    Eggin n3wb

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    That looks like a great unit. How could it be attached to the nvr to trigger an event?
     
  17. silencery

    silencery n3wb

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    Yes, PIR is definitely the best option for now since it's old, established tech. PIR was actually the universal for triggering events before software detection came around. I ran this setup for our front door for a while and false positives almost went to zero.

    If your camera doesn't have a PIR built-in, alarm motion sensors are a great add-on choice since they're easy to find and very affordable. There are lots of dahua/hikvision cameras and NVRs which already have built in support for wiring in an external PIR. You can have the PIR hooked up either directly to the camera to trigger an event, or even better, find a way to bridge it to blueiris (via envisalink alarm bridge for example). Don't go with zwave for this application as it's too high latency. The subject will be out of the frame by the time the trigger goes off.
     
  18. silencery

    silencery n3wb

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  19. fullboogie

    fullboogie n3wb

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    Sounds like you're trying to reduce false alerts. On my Hikvision system, under either line crossing or intrusion detection, I can set the minimum size object that will trigger the alert. Once tweaked to ignore the night time cats and possums, I almost never get false alerts anymore. NVR is a 7608 series and the cameras are 2355's and 2385's. I don't even use motion detection because it just falses way too much.
     
  20. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    eliminating false positives is easy, the trick is avoiding false negatives.