Advice on setup

[nelson]

Hey,

So I've been reading through info here and trying to put together a plan of action based on the Cliff Notes and my situation. Hoping to get some feedback.

Here's my planned layout:

I was thinking I'd get 5 of the IPC-HDW4231EM-AS from Aliexpress.com : Buy 2017 Top selling cameras 2MP IR Eyeball Network Camera IPC HDW4231EM AS free DHL shipping from Reliable network camera suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd

4 of which I'd go with the 3mm lense to get close to 90degree FOV and for camera 3 I'd go with 6.0mm since I don't need a wide view.

I know people suggest paying extra for the variable focal length but I think I can tell from my diagram that I'll be okay and already by going with Dahlia I'm going above my initial budget plans so I can't justify the additional $320 it would cost me for the upgrade. (I'm in canada so my prices are in canadian).

I have a few questions about the cameras in general:

1. What's the difference between NTFS and PAL? Do I need to worry about that?
2. Seems like everybody here says really the only choice is the Dahlia startlight cameras, especially because of the low light performance. I'd rather have something cheaper if possible. Are there any other options? If I have motion lights at most of my camera locations (I already do for most), can I just get one with poor low light performance since it will be in the light anyway?

Next, for recording I was planning on getting a POE NVR but the cliff notes mention its harder to configure the cameras. Thinking I might just get a NAS since I've been thinking of getting one for other uses anyway, and using a powered switch. Thoughts?

Any feedback on my setup or equipment would be great.
Thanks!

 

[mat200]

Hey,

So I've been reading through info here and trying to put together a plan of action based on the Cliff Notes and my situation. Hoping to get some feedback.
..
4 of which I'd go with the 3mm lense to get close to 90degree FOV and for camera 3 I'd go with 6.0mm since I don't need a wide view.
..
1. What's the difference between NTFS and PAL? Do I need to worry about that?
2. Seems like everybody here says really the only choice is the Dahlia startlight cameras, especially because of the low light performance. I'd rather have something cheaper if possible. Are there any other options? If I have motion lights at most of my camera locations (I already do for most), can I just get one with poor low light performance since it will be in the light anyway?

Next, for recording I was planning on getting a POE NVR but the cliff notes mention its harder to configure the cameras. Thinking I might just get a NAS since I've been thinking of getting one for other uses anyway, and using a powered switch. Thoughts?
..

Welcome Nelson!

Off hand it looks like a good plan. Remember to test it before pulling the cables.

If you have significant theft issues - either package or car break ins I would even consider adding another camera to the front of the house.. but then I've experienced significant issues with delinquents.

Here's the ID distance, theoretical that I have calculated for that camera and the different lens options:
( distance to 100 ppf, with 1920x1080 effective pixels )

Dahua IPC-HDW4231EM-AS starlight fixed lens 1080p 1920x1080
w/2.8mm lens FOV H 110 degrees: 10 feet { area covered 95.94 sq feet covered }
w/3.6mm lens FOV H 87 degrees: 12.65 feet { 121.43 sq feet covered }
w/6mm lens FOV H 51 degrees: 21.58 feet { 207.16 sq feet covered }

Q 1) What's the difference between NTFS and PAL? Do I need to worry about that?
A: Does not matter much for ip cameras, more of an older analog issue. ( may make a difference in max fps - but not too much of a concern for our needs )

Q 2) I'd rather have something cheaper if possible. Are there any other options?
A: The model you have selected will be the best value for a low light camera. It is possible to save some money and get cameras which do not perform as well in low light, however for most of us that small difference in savings is not worth it for only a few cameras.

Q 3) Thinking I might just get a NAS
A: That option is not a well liked one by members for various reasons. Recommend either a NVR w/PoE, or NVR w/separate PoE switch, or i5/i7 PC w/Blue Iris + separate PoE switch

 

[nelson]

Thanks for the reply!

So far I haven't noticed any issues with theft or vandalism, but that doesn't mean I don't want to be prepared for it.

I was thinking the only real gap in coverage I have from this way would be in front of the porch windows but I think it'd be small, but I was considering moving camera 2 over to that corner of the porch and adding something like a doorbell camera.

I think the distance you mention is probably enough for me. . . getting to the front of my property I'd have lower quality but I think for my purposes it's acceptable.

For the NAS, I would be getting one with a pretty beefy CPU on it already cause I'd want it for Plex transcoding and some other scripts and services I'd be running, would that not be feasible? One big issue I see is that I'd be running linux on the NAS but there seem to be some Blue Iris alternatives like ZoneMinder which I could use.

 

[mat200]

..
For the NAS, I would be getting one with a pretty beefy CPU on it already cause I'd want it for Plex transcoding and some other scripts and services I'd be running, would that not be feasible? One big issue I see is that I'd be running linux on the NAS but there seem to be some Blue Iris alternatives like ZoneMinder which I could use.

HI Nelson,

There are a number of VMS which appear to be available, Blue Iris being the most popular one with the members here.

I would look at Free VMS Software Directory and see what may work for a linux box.

 

[looney2ns]

You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
At nightime is the hardest to accomplish this.
In order of best options:
1-Bi on a $100-150 dedicated refurbed PC.
2-Nvr Non POE version with a POE switch, same brand as cams.
3-NAS, in my opinion avoid. Because the cost per camera and the number of folks on here having issue's using them as such.

 

[nelson]

Thanks for the options. Andy suggested this one: NVR4108/4116-8P-4KS2 in 8 channels, how does that seem?

 

[mat200]

Thanks for the options. Andy suggested this one: NVR4108/4116-8P-4KS2 in 8 channels, how does that seem?

Hi Nelson,

Note looney2ns has a review on a similar 4 port version, so you want to look for it.

FYI - That NVR can only hold one HDD, ( the "1" in 41xx ). I went for the more powerful 5216 model.

 

[looney2ns]

Thanks for the options. Andy suggested this one: NVR4108/4116-8P-4KS2 in 8 channels, how does that seem?

For future proofing, buy the 16 port version, it's just a few extra dollars.

Review of 4 port version here: Review-Dahua NVR4104-HS-P-4ks Network Recorder.

 

[nelson]

Hmm thanks. I had asked andy about the 16 channel version and he said "If buy 16CH nvr, then better buy NVR5216-16P-4KS2, or else the NVR too limited." Not sure what he meant by limited, but the 5216 is double the money so I was thinking not worth it. I'll ask him again about the 16 channel version of the 4108.

 

[looney2ns]

Hmm thanks. I had asked andy about the 16 channel version and he said "If buy 16CH nvr, then better buy NVR5216-16P-4KS2, or else the NVR too limited." Not sure what he meant by limited, but the 5216 is double the money so I was thinking not worth it. I'll ask him again about the 16 channel version of the 4108.

I think he is probably concerned about it not having a enough processing power to handle the data rate from 16 ports. Hes probably right.

 

[mat200]

Hmm thanks. I had asked andy about the 16 channel version and he said "If buy 16CH nvr, then better buy NVR5216-16P-4KS2, or else the NVR too limited." Not sure what he meant by limited, but the 5216 is double the money so I was thinking not worth it. I'll ask him again about the 16 channel version of the 4108.

Hi Nelson,

The 5xxx series of NVR should have significantly more processing power as looney2ns notes.
If you have a larger home or property I would definitely go w/16 ports - it's very easy to want 9-10 cameras to get decent coverage.

With your layout I can easily see having 6-8 cameras for the exterior.

Remember, the most important aspect is doing a good job on the cabling and placement of cameras - you can always upgrade the NVR / PoE switch as well as add cameras if you're done a good job on the cabling.

 

[MacFun]

You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
2-Nvr Non POE version with a POE switch, same brand as cams.

Looney, if he were to go with option 2 (NVR), why do you recommend a separate POE switch external to the NVR?

Thanks,

Robert

 

[mat200]

Looney, if he were to go with option 2 (NVR), why do you recommend a separate POE switch external to the NVR?

Thanks,

Robert

Hi Robert,

A separate PoE switch will make it easier for you to connect to the cameras, and provide some flexibility for future upgrades.

Sometimes to adjust some camera settings for tuning purposes you need to directly login to the cameras, as the NVR may/does not allow access to all the controls.

It is possible to do so without a separate switch - just a bit more work.
( I ended up going the NVR w/embedded PoE ports - as I was not finding ebay deals I liked at the time )

 

[looney2ns]

Looney, if he were to go with option 2 (NVR), why do you recommend a separate POE switch external to the NVR?

Thanks,

Robert

It's also easier to locate the NVR, instead of the need to place it where a mass of wires are, you can place the POE switch where convenient, and then you just have the need for one cable between the switch and the NVR.

 

[MacFun]

It's also easier to locate the NVR, instead of the need to place it where a mass of wires are, you can place the POE switch where convenient, and then you just have the need for one cable between the switch and the NVR.

Wow, that’s a fabulous idea! I was thinking that I’d be bolting the NVR on the wall of a machine room and hoping for remote access for all settings. I’m sure some things cannot be set from a headless box. Okay, I really see the value in this. I totally prefer the NVR tucked away in the wall of a closet and that ALL functionality could be available from a browser window but I’m sure this can’t be done without some KVM.