Advise on on proper outdoor coverage

Discussion in 'Camera Installation Questions' started by emerb, Sep 11, 2018.

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  1. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    I started putting my system together based on some (great) advice I got from this community.
    So far I installed one IPC-HDW5231R-Z in the driveway.
    I have 2 other cameras in the box (one of each):
    • IPC-HDW5231R-Z
    • IPC-HDBW4231F-AS
    The IPC-HDBW4231F-AS I believe is going to the front door.
    The IPC-HDW5231R-Z is yet to be determined.

    My house is already wired.
    I have Cat5e going to every room but one of my biggest challenges is wiring the outdoor cameras.
    I can't easily run wires through the walls or sub-floor.
    I believe one of my only options to reach outdoor is to come down from the soffits on some conduit.

    I've been walking (literally) around the house for the past two weeks trying to figure out where should I place the cameras and how to wire then without any success. I can't lock on anything.

    I'm kind of stuck.

    I started with what I thought would be a simple goal:
    • Ensure every door and window is covered from a live feed at all times.
    • Preferably have no blind-spots around the house.
    • Be able to identify people coming from the front and back of the house.
    I really appreciate any comment or suggestion you can give regarding camera placement, which camera to use and where, whether or not I'm overdoing this thing... anything can help at this point.

    You may recall some of these pictures from my other posts.

    DRIVE WAY
    This one is done. Picture was taken before I installed it. Details shows the installation.

    [​IMG]

    Image from the camera:

    [​IMG]

    FRONT DOOR (Here is where the challenge begins):

    A small area with a challenging design. Columns between door, window and pathway.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    SIDE AND FRONT WINDOW

    One thing that crossed my mind was two cameras on the front corner, one pointing down towards the window and another one back towards the side. I could have one conduit feed both cameras.
    But take a look at the gutter installed right at the corner of the wall. How exactly can I have more than one cameras together or do I even need them?

    [​IMG]

    BACKYARD

    Same here. the way windows are put together makes me believe I need one camera on each corner of the house in order to cover them all. But depending on the height and position of these cameras, will I need a third one to get a wide picture of the backyard?

    [​IMG]

    Again, since I feel I have no idea what I'm doing, any suggestion or comment is really appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Dont muck the house up with conduit...hire a professional low voltage installer...they can run the cable in wall unless its concrete
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  3. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    The Dahua Mini wedge in 2.8mm lens would work well at the front door, mounted at about 5-6ft on the garage wall. Since, it is the garage wall, it'd be straight forward to do. Mount cam as close to door as practical.

    Most don't worry so much about covering windows, just doors.
    Cams mounted higher than 8ft, make it hard to ID a face.
    If you've not read the Cliff Notes, I suggest you study them.
    Always before mounting, use a 8'2x4, 5gal bucket, and rocks to make a move-able temp cam test rig. Test for 24hrs minimum.
    Use this to help decide, keep PPF >100 IPVM Camera Calculator V3
     
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  4. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    @fenderman that is exactly what is bothering me and the reason every weekend I do the same walk around the house looking for different solutions: I don't really like the idea of conduits.
    My issue is not really hiring a professional to run the cables, I'm really comfortable doing it myself. I just think the challenges I found so far are the same any professional (which I'm not) will be facing.

    My house is CBS construction so one would have to run the wires on the inside, between the drywall and concrete blocks and just drill through the concrete blocks (all the way out) wherever the camera will be placed.
    Sounds like piece of cake, however
    • The furring channels (used to install the drywall) won't allow wires to run horizontally through the walls.
    [​IMG]
    • If the only option is to run wires vertically we are left with no choice but use the sub-floor like so:
    [​IMG]
    • To accomplish this we need to poke holes on the sub-floor so we can guide the cable through AC ducts, pipes and whatever else is in there. Problem is ceiling has knock down finishing which I don't think can be easily patched as a smooth drywall would so we can't touch it.

      [​IMG]

    As you can see, unless I'm missing something really obvious I'm out of options:

    • I can't go horizontally through the walls.
    • I can't go vertically and use the sub-floor...
     
  5. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    I like the 2x4 idea (not sure if I can fit one on my car though) but I can definitely try similar approach.
    My problem with the 8ft range is what I described in my previous post: it leaves me inside the first floor (9 ft height) which is proven to be a challenge when it comes to run wires.

    To your point, doors are really important and I only have two.
    Front door which is resolved: garage wall it is:

    Back door:
    I can place a camera somewhere close to that light fixture (using the 7 to 8ft range).
    I can ran the wire down (vertically) and then go horizontally behind the baseboards up to the TV rack which is on that side and have a POE network switch (TV and game console is wired).

    This would give me coverage on all doors.
    Then I can still add the high ones just to give me a perimeter coverage but not necessarily to identify individuals.

    Does it make any sense?
     
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  6. Ckb3

    Ckb3 n3wb

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    emerb, you should be able to get in between your first and second floors. There is about a 12"-18" space in there. Typically you will have an attic access over your garage. That will all be sealed up inside the attic but you can open up the wood covering to access it. It will require cutting the wood open for access and since you cant see whats on the other side be sure to use caution and stay away from any electrical or plumbing. Its no easy task and if you haven't done something like it before, you may want to consult someone to do the work.
     
  7. bababouy

    bababouy Known around here

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    I'm gonna throw out a crazy idea, just because. How about coming out of your house behind a TV or where your internet or direct tv goes in, and going into the ground. Trench out to your fence and run cable to the spot where you took this pic of your backyard. This pic is a perfect place to mount a cam or two in order for you: 1. to cover the back of the house, 2. to not have conduit on the house, 3. to not tear up your ceilings. You can mount cameras on the existing fence poles and paint them a brown or tan to match. Just a thought.
     
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  8. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    Did I miss info re: attic?
     
  9. bababouy

    bababouy Known around here

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    I think he wanted the cameras down low and didn't want to run conduit down the side of his house. That's the way I would do it, but to each his own
     
  10. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    I have tried that before. A massive concrete beam in the way (it is there to hold a second floor wall).
    Even the cable for the camera in front of the garage could not come through there.
     
  11. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    I'm still stuck with this project and I believe my best option will be:

    Side of the house:
    • Run wires through the attic.
    • Go down behind drywall "inside the bedrooms in the second floor".
    • Drill from inside out at the same high of an electrical outlet so I can have a blank one gang plate in there.
    The only downside here is the height.
    Cameras will be 12 to 13 feet above ground.

    Sliding door (back)
    • Drill all the way through.
    • Cable goes Inside the house behind drywall.
    • Cable goes down and run behind baseboard until closest RJ45.
    With all doors (front, back and garage) covered at proper high, i guess the others cameras should be ok.

    Thanks everyone.
     
  12. FoxCR

    FoxCR Young grasshopper

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    You are in fla. Arent you.. typical south fla construction.

    How about exterior grade cat cable and just paint it to match the house.
     
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  13. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    Agreed. You can hide cable very well behind those downspouts you've got on all 4 corners, come down from the soffit, mount with cable clips into masonry with 1/4" expanding plastic anchors, paint over. It looks like exposed horizontal runs from downspout to cam would be short, no "uglier" than the cams.

    Of course, WAF is big factor....maybe do one completely, including paint, then show her after it's done...it's easier to ask forgiveness than get permission (Oh, and it's so much easier to ask others to do stuff I wouldn't think of. :rolleyes: )
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  14. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    Yep, I'm in south fla.
    I didn't even know there was such thing as exterior grade cat cable.
    Is it going to withstand fla extreme heat plus lots and lots of rain?

    This definitely sounds like a plan.
     
  15. FoxCR

    FoxCR Young grasshopper

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    ^ I don't know. Not worried about rain, but probably heat / sun? Then again I see houses with their cables exposed for satelite etc.
     
  16. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    @emerb ,
    I suggest solid copper CAT-5e with a CMX (outdoor-rated) jacket that is UV-rated such as this from Vertical Cable.

    They also have white, here.

    Yes, the above cable is rated correctly for your application. It is NOT for underground, but if I understand correctly, you plan on running it on exterior walls.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  17. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    Also, @emerb ....
    I use UV-rated clips like these, available also in white and a double for 2 cables. Their screws fit 1/4" plastic expanding anchors. Drive in with 1/4" hex socket or Phillips head bit on your cordless drill/driver.

    clips.jpg
     
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  18. crw030

    crw030 Getting comfortable

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    This might be a good suggestion for him, but got me thinking as well. Is there anything besides the direct-burial, gel-filled, solid copper conductor I need to worry about as an amateur? Like is it significantly more risky from a lightning discharge PoV? Direct buried POE camera would be 100 feet from my computer room TOPS. I could do rear yard overview with 2 cameras instead of 5, add an id camera at the door still consume less budget (maybe, depends on how much that cable and trenching costs).
     
  19. bababouy

    bababouy Known around here

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    I think this is the second thread where you asked everyone for advice and after everyone expressed the proper way to do things, you went with your own ideas. I am beginning to see why @fenderman lets people know what he thinks of them.
     
  20. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    No sure what you mean.

    First of all, even thought I'm not disagreeing with anyone I don't think there is anything wrong in doing so as long as you do it in a respectfull way.

    Second, when you are not a professional you may think of something but you are not confident enough so you ask for a second on third opinion. And then, after analyzing each one of those opinions and/or ideas you come to a conclusion that your first and original idea is just fine (it was validated by people who knows more than you - based on their comments) and you should go with it.

    Again, nothing wrong with that.

    I tried to reply to everyone who posted here and I take the opportunity to apologize if I missed anyone.

    I carefully considered each applicable idea and suggestion.
    For those not applicable, for example the one who suggested I go through the garage attic I let them now why it wasn't a viable solution, in this case because I have a concrete beam in there.
    The person who gave the suggestion would never know that. Constructions around here are very peculiar so they can withstand hurricane winds.

    Another example is your own suggestion: A pole with a camera in the backyard. I loved it. It would give a perfect picture of the back of the house but... when I ran it through wife it was a straight no and I'm not even considering that I would have to request authorization for that (HOA is another thing that sucks in here).

    But... I'm still thinking about running the cable (buried as you suggested) and install a camera in this tree that is in the center of yard.
    It is not exactly your idea but it is definitely inspired on it. This means you helped me.

    As you can see at the end I might go with my own ideas as you mentioned but... they won't be truly my own ideas.
    They will be variances of your ideas or putting in another way: a compilation of most of the ideas in here put together in a way that fit my needs (which goes from dealing with challenges of a concrete building to HOA guidelines).

    Ant that is why I started this posted by saying I'm not sure what you mean.
    This is a community and the basics of a community is that people help each other.
    I came here asking for help and I got lots of it.
    I literally just started actually working on this project (today) thanks to the help I got here so... this post and all the comments worked really well.

    As I mentioned, I just started on it. I finished installing the first camera in this project this evening (around 6PM).
    This was the easier one reason it was the first.

    It is meant to cover the backdoor. An attempt to get people walking towards it and/or touching it.
    Camera is an IPC-HDW5231R-Z. As of now all defaults (except the password :) )

    Picture is nice and giving a good view of the yard during the day (even though the goal here is the door) but because the camera is kind of pointing down the IR is blowing the grass making everything around it took dark.
    Any thoughts?
     

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  21. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    Forgot to add a picture of daytime.
     

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  22. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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    Back door lookin' good! Only 4 or more to go, right? :facepalm:
     
  23. FoxCR

    FoxCR Young grasshopper

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    Looks great! Very clean.
    So you drilled a small hole through the CMU for your cable, looks very clean outside. What did you do with the cable inside your living room.

    I realize that the only way to get this nice amd clean is to cut the dry wall inside, route the cables, then path and paint as required.
     
  24. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    Thanks. I believe it is more like 5 or 6 :)
    I will post it here as I go.
     
  25. emerb

    emerb Young grasshopper

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    You are right. I drilled a whole just large enough for the cable.

    I got lucky with this one:
    This is the only room in the house still to be painted so a little patch here and there is not an issue.
    Also it has an ethernet outlet so I figure I could just route the cable behind the baseboard and connect it to that outlet (see pics)
    Unfortunately I'm not expecting the others to be this clean. I will probably go with conduits or exterior grade cable running by the gutters as suggested.
     

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