All the experts here on ipcamtalk! Help with design?

Discussion in 'Camera Installation Questions' started by mmmann, Apr 8, 2019.

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  1. mmmann

    mmmann n3wb

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    Hi to all.

    After a few years of prepping and lurking, I'm ready to install cameras and servers into my very first rack this season. Hurray! It's finally happening. I have info overload, though: more stuff coming in is pushing out things I already memorized. I just spent 3-4 on the network and file server portion, but now I'm losing the FOV equations and best practices and etc. Rats!

    So I'm going to do something very un-manly: I'm gonna ask for directions. I've uploaded a diagram of the house and the CAT-6 runs and where I expect to surveil. I'd like to ask the experts on this forum to help me design the system: camera brand, lens config, etc.

    This'll be a POE installation using CAT-6. Is Hikvision still the big thing? Since this is an install on my own house, I don't mind spending a tad more on cameras, variable focus lenses, full HD, pan-tilt-zoom, etc.

    Please see the house diagram. I have two runs facing forward off the garage soffit toward the street. I have cable run to the shed in the back yard which can surveil the back yard (looking toward the rear door) and one side of the house. I have the other side covered by two CAT-6 runs. I would like a camera at the front door and the rear door, and probably some doorbell / motion detection wizardry. An interior camera looking down a hallway may be a good idea--I have a lot of tools and things, and the wife would love feeling secure when away from the house.

    I'm really excited about this project. I hope the experts here can help out, and that the diagram is sufficient. Thanks in advance!!

    House-Cameras.jpg
     
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  2. mat200

    mat200 IPCT Contributor

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    welcome @mmmann

    Looks like you're off to a good start.

    Over cable ( N+1 )
    Consider using grey PVC conduit event in the attic, esp if you may have critters ( rats, squirrels, .. ) who like to chew on cables... ( 3/4"+ minimum diameter for multiple cables - remember to test how many you can pull )

    Dahua OEM cameras are also good quality, so no need to just consider Hikvision OEM imho

    Consider starting with one varifocal to test your positions. Test both in the day and at night, as night fixtures affect the image capture.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  3. aristobrat

    aristobrat IPCT Contributor

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    Something that will help you a lot is to go through the Cliff Notes document... it's got a ton of good info (clipped from various threads) stored in one spot.

    IMO, the cameras with the best low-light image quality for the buck are ones that use a 2MP 1/2.8" image sensor. That sensor is pretty much only found in Dahua Starlight or Hikvision Dark Fighter models.

    Hikvision is a great company. Dahua is the brand most commonly used here... part of that is because folks here could get their hands on Dahua's low-light Starlight models several months before Hikvision's Dark Fighters were available. Also, Dahua has more variety with their low-light models, and there is a trusted forum vendor here (Andy, @EMPIRETECANDY) who has made getting Dahua equipment super-easy. The forum here has recently started selling a few Hikvision models under their own brand (IPCT), but they don't yet have a varifocal turret model, which has been the most popular style.

    For doors/porches, the Dahua Starlight 4231F-AS mini-dome is popular due to how well it does in low-light, it's smaller size, and it having a built-in mic.
    Front door ID camera IPC-HDBW4231F?

    This model is probably the most popular overall. It'd do well on the front of your garage, but pointed/zoomed in on your cars.
    Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE

    This model is a less-expensive version of the model above, minus a microphone:
    Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

    For the lower-right of your house, I've seen folks use the dual mini-dome in locations like that:
    Review-Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M Dual Starlight Cam
     
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  4. SouthernYankee

    SouthernYankee IPCT Contributor

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    :welcome:
    My standard welcome to the forum message.

    Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

    Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

    Quick start
    1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
    2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
    3) Do not use wifi cameras.
    4) Do not use cloud storage
    5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
    6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
    7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
    8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
    9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
    10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)

    Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
     
  5. TonyR

    TonyR IPCT Contributor

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  6. mmmann

    mmmann n3wb

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    Wow--already some good information being returned. What a great forum!

    I forgot to mention that the house is really well-lighted. The front of the house is lit by two garage sconces and a 3-turrent lamp post. The dome light at the front door has a motion detector that catches movement out ~10 feet. The rear door has a light and motion detector, and the shed has two sconces on motion detectors. The sides of the house will be dark(er).

    Question: how well do cameras interact w/motion-detected lights? When the lights pop on, will the image bloom? Are Starlights still recommended?

    Question: based on the distances on the diagram, what's the general starting point for the focal characteristics?

    Question: which online calculator does everyone use and like for FOV, Focal Length, Etc.?
     
  7. mat200

    mat200 IPCT Contributor

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    Hi @mmmann

    You'll need to test positions and test the motion sensor lights - do see the various reviews and threads here on cameras. Sometimes a slight positional change which removes the light from the image FOV of the camera makes a big difference.
     
  8. SouthernYankee

    SouthernYankee IPCT Contributor

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    some motion detection lights, when they come on they will blind the camera as it adjusts to the change in light. I recommend just normal lights with cameras. I have 9 recessed 14 watt led lights mounted in the soffit, and 4 18 watt led globe lights mounted on a wall, they are controlled by a daylight sensitive switch.

    Mount the cameras low, the garage and door cameras need to be mounted at about 6-7 feet up. the object is to identify the person. If they are mounted on the soffit you can tell what happened but not who did it.
     
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  9. mmmann

    mmmann n3wb

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    Since my last post, I've done some studying about normal vs. panoramic cameras: use 5MP or 4K for better recognition; use 12MP (?) for panoramic. I can only devote a couple hours every couple days: I'm knee deep in 3-4 other projects, including learning how to rack mount a file server and a network. But, taking what little I've learned, I've updated my design. The cones mean normal cameras; the wide arcs mean panoramic. Is any of this correct?

    House-Cameras-Design.jpg
     
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  10. mmmann

    mmmann n3wb

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    I'm trying to select cameras for the house design. I don't know enough to understand 2.4 and 3.6 and all that, and it would be months of reading before I could educate myself. So I'm using the forums posts, above, and the Dahua Product Selector at https://us.dahuasecurity.com/products/product-selector/camera-selector.

    > 9) If possible use a turret camera
    The Dahua site does not mention the word "bullet" but it appears that Bullet = Eyeball. When you select [x] on "Panoramic", nothing appears. There are no panoramic bullet cameras, so I've deleted the panoramic cameras from my design.

    > For doors/porches, the Dahua Starlight 4231F-AS mini-dome is popular...
    Ok. Both the front and rear doors will use the IPC-HDBW4231F. The Dahua site's search function does not find this model, so I can't verify that it's an eyeball, but hopefully a vendor will recognize it.

    > This model [would] do well on the front of your garage...
    Ok. One garage gable-end cam will be the Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE. Search = nothing on the Dahua web site, but hopefully a vendor will recognize it.

    > For the lower-right...use the dual mini-dome...
    Ok. All (4) corners in the design will use the IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M Dual Starlight Cam. Search = nothing on the Dahua web site, but hopefully a vendor will recognize it.

    The other shed camera I guess will be another IPC-HDW5231R-ZE.

    If anyone can critique this design, I'd appreciate it.


    20190412-House-Cameras-Design.jpg
     
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  11. SouthernYankee

    SouthernYankee IPCT Contributor

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    placement looks good to me. Do not mount the door and garage cameras to high, keep than at 6-7 ft up, so you get good face views.
     
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  12. mat200

    mat200 IPCT Contributor

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    Hi @mmmann

    FYI - I use my mini-dome starlight wedge camera on the front door which is protected from UV exposure and is well lighted when the sun goes down.

    For UV exposed areas and if planning to use the IR leds I would look at non-dome models, as the plastic and rubber will degrade over time and be problematic.

    For those following, this again is one of those pull N+1 lines times. As in this case there are some placement locations where having 2 cameras vs 1 maybe more effective.
     
  13. aristobrat

    aristobrat IPCT Contributor

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    Dahua’s US company doesn’t carry many of the popular models that folks here use, so they won’t show in searches on their US website.

    On Dahua’s website, change the location to “International”, then searches should return results.

    To buy International models, the forum here has a trusted vendor who makes it east to get International models that US vendors can’t. Vendors name is Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY). He’s got a sub-forum in the Vendors area here.
     
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  14. EMPIRETECANDY

    EMPIRETECANDY IPCT Vendor

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    Front door if not such low light, can use 4mp IPC-HDBW4431F-AS, this one many guys used, have great feedback too, if too low light, then use 2mp IPC-HDBW4231F-AS.