So I just found this place after ordering a few things so wondering if anything I got so far should be returned prior to opening and setting up. My plan for now is to use a pc running Win10 pro for my NVR, PC should be more than capable so no issues there. My PC has two lan ports on the MB, one not in use currently. I have an ASUS ax3000 router which has a fair amount of configuration options. I ordered copper clad cat5e Apparently, so that will get returned for solid copper. I grabbed a MokerLink 8-port PoE w/ 2gb uplink 120w, which I think is fine? I grabbed 2x amcrest ultra hd 4mp cams (1026ew-28mm). I know they’re aren’t the best but these are intended to be mounted on a telephone pole just to cover the majority of the property for motion detection around my house. I intend to add some better cams near driveway, house entrances etc to catch faces and plates etc. Main questions are: are those cameras trash compared to some the are similarly prices? I’m hearing BI has a memory leak issue atm, I intend to try to trial before purchasing but any solid alternatives? Is there any sort of license plate detection/face detection that’s a one time purchase price that doesn’t search any public databases, but let me build my own? Basically so I can teach it frequent visitors plates/faces so I can trigger alerts for some people but not everyone etc. like garbage pickup at 6am can go ignored etc. I just found some of the sticky threads with lots of info, so going to go through those over today tomorrow, but my equipment gets delivered tomorrow so if the cams or PoE switch should be replaced with something else I’d like to know ASAP so I can get new ones in soon.
Am I on the right track?
- Thread starter Echo22
- Start date
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Study this: Cliff Notes and this: Wiki
Welcome to the forum.
I have never heard of that POE switch brand so really can't give an opinion. Personally, I have had good performance with Netgear switches. Others here like Ubiquity though.
Those cams have an Omnivision OV4689 sensor which is a 1/3" 4MP. It will not give good low-light color images. Current cams recommended by folks in this forum (Dahua 5442 series) have 1/1.8" 4MP sensors (almost twice as large as that Amcrest) which give very good color performance in low-light. But those cams are more expensive running about $150 each.
I have never heard of that POE switch brand so really can't give an opinion. Personally, I have had good performance with Netgear switches. Others here like Ubiquity though.
I have not heard that...news to me.
Can you legally mount them on a Telephone pole? I would think that you run the risk of the phone company ripping them down if they find them there.
spile
Young grasshopper
Have you considered running a NAS or dedicated NVR which I think is more suited to running a 24/7 service ?
IAmATeaf
Known around here
A lot of us run BI on a PC?
I’m not too worried about the switch as I will likely end up getting a larger one with 16 ports or so. The telephone pole I’m considering mounting on is on my property and technically mine (at least that’s what they said when I had my main service line upgraded). I know the cameras I got aren’t the best in low light, but currently my main concern is daytime while I’m at work. Those cameras will eventually be relocated to the inside of my garage and shed. I am curious however what the current verdict is on using 4K cams that are not necessarily great at night, but with added IR lighting? I’d prefer to do 4K, and the way my property is setup I basically have three buildings (house, garage, large shed) that basically split the property in half. So I was thinking adding Ir lights on the front and back of each building to accommodate higher resolution cams which all seem to have worse low light performance. Do you think this is a valid plan, or go with the lower res starlight cams?
I want the flexibility that blue iris provides and may play around with other software. When initially looking at security cam packages the most common complaint was related to NVR software and alert performance and I have a good PC I don’t mind using.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Keep in mind that a 4K camera eats hard drive space like it's eating potato chips at a beer party. The Dahua 4MP Starlight, Starlight+, 5442 series are excellent both during the day and at night. At night, if there's some ambient lighting, they can be kept in full color mode and use half the disk space of a 4K/8MP. Hikvision has a similar line of cameras as well. Bottom line, chase performance not megapixels.
The current verdict is do not chase MP. You are not making a Hollywood movie. This is explained in the Cliff Notes. WHY do you want 4K? Even with IR, more pixels on a smaller sensor is not going to give you an image that will ID a face.
Well my thought process was why not get decent 4K cams that cost less than the 4mp if low light is the only issue (I believe the cliff notes section on the sensors is the only section I have left to go through that’s relevant for me, so that’s also part of the reason). I had been planning on putting some visible light sources in when I’m running the camera lines and saw the video of in the cliff notes with the ir cannon and was pretty impressed, so thought it may be a better option to use 4K cams with new ir and visible light sources (rather not use visible for security more for when hanging out at night outside) and just turn down the frame rate or resolution if need be.
The cams cannot use both IR and visible light at the same time. So if you are going to use an IR cannon, then it will only make a difference when the cam is on IR. If you have the cam on Color, then the IR light makes no impact. If you are using the cams for security, as in trying to ID the face and clothing of a perp, then you really want COLOR at night and not IR. IR gives you no clothing color info, tends to wash out facial features, and has issues with bugs.
White light placed to illuminate your chock points with good low-light cams will give you the best CHANCE of getting a good enough face shot to ID a perp. Realize that these folks do not stop and look into the cam for a while to give you the best possible shot. They rarely look into a cam and move around a lot. Even if they are not walking/running, they are constantly moving their heads which gives rise to blur in low-light situations.
The use of 4K cams in security situations is just a marketing ploy. Unless you are willing to spend 10x more than what most folks here spend, the image quality for a moving object at night will be disappointing. They are resource hogs as well. As @sebastiantombs stated, they eat disk space. They also eat networking bandwidth and processing power.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Turning down the fram rate or resolution does nothing to improve low light performance. Low light performance is determined by how large each pixel is. In a 4K/8MP camera, when compared to a 2K/4MP camera with the same sensor, the pixel number is doubled which cuts the light per pixel by half. You do seem determined to go with 4K, so go for it, but you asked for advice and it has been given by multiple people that chasing pixels is not the thing to do if you want a system that works well. Adding an IR cannon won't do anything for a color video at night, the camera won't see that IR just like you won't. Only adding visible light will help and the electric bill, even with LED floods, will eventually equal more than the added cost of a good 4MP, low light, camera.
Okay thank you this was helpful. I did not realize the starlight cameras were capturing color during the night well, I just assumed everyone was referring to how well they capture in ir.
I know turning down frame rate and resolution won’t help low light performance I just meant to save disk space and resources if it was necessary. It’s not that I am determined to use 4K, I was just confused why anyone would spend 2x as much for a camera that is 1/2 the resolution when the only difference was the ir light performance when supplemental items lighting is quite inexpensive. I did not realize that everyone was getting great low light performance using color with the starlight product line. I still need to go over the sensor section in the wiki before adding additional cameras obviously.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
You are confusing IR light performance versus sensor performance. IR can help "vision challenged" cameras under low or no light conditions but it won't make them work really well, too much over exposure and blurring. A more expensive camera has a larger, much more low light/no light sensor which means it can "see" much better at night. Additionally, the more expensive cameras also, generally, have a lens with a lower F stop capability which also enhances their low light capabilities. I spend 2X as much because I want video that is useful, whether it's recorded day or night. The half price camera may perform well during the day, but not at night. Bottom line is that as with everything else in this world, you get what you pay for.
If a "decent" 4K camera is half the price of a good 2K camera exactly how "decent" do you think it might actually be? I believe there are 4K cameras with the capabilities of the 4K, 5442 series, but the price is on the order of double, or more, that of a 2K camera.
If a "decent" 4K camera is half the price of a good 2K camera exactly how "decent" do you think it might actually be? I believe there are 4K cameras with the capabilities of the 4K, 5442 series, but the price is on the order of double, or more, that of a 2K camera.
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Yeah I have a better understanding now and am going through wopi82’s write up in the wiki now. One more question I have is there a list of preferred vendors for dahua starlight turret cams? I typically use amazon due to prime, but they’re not available. I’ve seen alibaba or whatever mentioned a lot but always thought they were notorious for knock-offs being sold as genuine products. Found some googling easily enough, but it’s all places I’ve never heard of.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Outlined in the cliff notes
beepsilver
Getting comfortable
Try searching Empiretecandy on this forum--his name is Andy. He's the vendor of choice for many of us here...highly respected/trusted. I bought all my Dahua cameras through Andy.
And ditto on what the guys said above...you WANT the low light cameras with the biggest aperture you can afford. The Dahua 5442 is an excellent affordable option.
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Yes, @EMPIRETECANDY a member of this forum, as mentioned by @beepsilver above. I have purchased all of my Dahua cams (19 so far) from Andy over the past two years. He had an Amazon store front and an Aliexpress store front, but I have always just sent him an email asking for price/availability. He ships directly from Hong Kong. Takes about a week to USA. Pay though PayPal. His email is kingsecurity2014@163.com