Assistance with Wireless

[RealEstateGuy]

Hi -- I am looking to install a camera system at my properties (I have six communities; roughly 200 apartments each; garden style).

I bought the Lorex cameras for my first set up. Haven't tried them yet.

I have two choices for communications (as far as I know):

1) Run ethernet to each camera (longest distance is 1000 ft)

2) Set up a wireless connection

If I run ethernet, I need to trench. I have the manpower but it's annoying because I need to have the utilities mark everything (unless someone has a different suggestion?).

I don't know how to make the cameras wireless or if it is reliable.

If you could help, that would be great!

Thanks.

Ian

 

[fenderman]

Hi -- I am looking to install a camera system at my properties (I have six communities; roughly 200 apartments each; garden style).

I bought the Lorex cameras for my first set up. Haven't tried them yet.

I have two choices for communications (as far as I know):

1) Run ethernet to each camera (longest distance is 1000 ft)

2) Set up a wireless connection

If I run ethernet, I need to trench. I have the manpower but it's annoying because I need to have the utilities mark everything (unless someone has a different suggestion?).

I don't know how to make the cameras wireless or if it is reliable.

If you could help, that would be great!

Thanks.

Ian

you cannot run ethernet 1000f without special extenders...a better solution is to run a fiber link, all you need is power for a switch on the other side...running a hard line is the proper way to do it...you can also use a point to point wireless, connection, there are threads discussing this,...DO NOT USE WIRELESS CAMERAS

 

[RealEstateGuy]

Thanks Fenderman.

Does a PoE Switch at the 500 ft mark solve this problem?

 

[RealEstateGuy]

Can you point me to some good threads?

I really appreciate the help.

 

[actran]

@RealEstateGuy If you need longer distance, add Dahua ePOE cameras to your situation. This is really good option:

Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE

800 meters = 2,625 ft

The above Dahua is a starlight so great footage at night (relative to non-starlights)

You'll want to check your Lorex cameras to see how they do at night. Because if something bad happens at night, it will suck if you can't see things in motion clearly.

P.S. Pay someone to run cables. Wifi may not give you the reliability you'll need. And use quality solid cat5e/cat6 cables so your setup will last for many years.

 

[copex]

DON'T USE WIFI Cameras........... as suggested By Fenderman us point to point wifi have a look here How To Setup a Point To Point Wireless Access Point Link for IP Cameras

the NVRS we use support cameras up to 300 meters (984.252ft) out of the box, so check with the manufacture as CCTV do not seem to be limited to the 100mrts like computer networks are....

 

[RealEstateGuy]

Thanks Actran.

Who would be the right type of people for cost/quality in the Atlanta area? It seems that traditional camera installers charge an arm and a leg.

 

[actran]

Thanks Actran.

Who would be the right type of people for cost/quality in the Atlanta area? It seems that traditional camera installers charge an arm and a leg.

If you are willing to install the cameras yourself, then you just need an electrician or low-voltage guy to run the cables.

 

[RealEstateGuy]

Good idea.

 

[actran]

If you mount the cameras yourself, you'll learn alot about camera positioning and what footage will make sense for your property security. You probably won't get it right the first time so if you do it yourself, you can quickly make adjustments without waiting for anyone.

Even if you hire a camera guy to do initial install, it won't be perfect placement, and iterative adjustments will still be necessary.

 

[actran]

If you hire an electrician/low-voltage guy to run cables, run extra cables - more than your initial need.

You will find out later that additional cameras are necessary (for better coverage) and having the cables already in place is going to save you from bringing out the electrician again.

 

[looney2ns]

Make sure that whomever you hire, they are certified for low voltage.
I

 

[TonyR]

I was born and raised outside of Atlanta and I'm sure the lightning can still be as bad and as violent as it ever was. Therefore, with regard to runs of CAT-5e or 6, I highly recommend you use shielded and it be properly terminated and grounded.

I would also go so far as to install ESD / surge protection devices on both ends of every outdoor run between structures.
Insure that any runs that are outdoors (and therefore exposed to sun, rain, ozone, etc.) utilize outdoor-rated cable, even if in conduit, as all underground conduits get flooded eventually.
Insure the cable is solid copper and not CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum).

I use Ubiquiti Toughcable Pro and shielded RJ-45 connectors but there are equivalent products available.
I use Ubiquiti ESD / surge protection devices but there are equivalent products available.

 

[tangent]

You don't have to run all the cameras back directly to a central location you can put switches periodically like at each building. Fiber is good at isolating lightning, I know I was taught not to run ethernet between buildings.

How many units per building?
How many buildings per community?

How many cameras you you looking at per building?
What are you hoping to cover with the cameras? Cars coming and going? Perimeter? Common areas like pools, laundry, and playgrounds? Exterior of structures?
Who's going to watch the footage? Will it be monitored actively or just when something happens?

If access to the communities is controlled, license plate recognition can be a nice way to open the gate.

Atlanta is getting Google Fiber. Something to consider would be if you can approach this project in a different manner that would allow for very high speed internet like google fiber throughout the communities. This sort of thing is likely to increase demand for the properties.

 

[RealEstateGuy]

Thanks everyone. This is really helpful.

A few questions:

1) How deep do you recommend I trench?

Georgia Power is saying they will not survey my property and I need to have a private surveyor (cost = $3K - $6K which seems nuts).

Do you have a workaround?

2) Please take a look at the links below. What do you think?

@TonyR -- how's this? https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-TOUGHCable-Shielded-Ethernet/dp/B008L143VW/ref=pd_sbs_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B008L143VW&pd_rd_r=AQ0AZWYAS37EBJ3KNRQW&pd_rd_w=A464B&pd_rd_wg=sVtlE&psc=1&refRID=AQ0AZWYAS37EBJ3KNRQW

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-ETH-SP-External-Suppressor/dp/B00R20OIAY/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1514152215&sr=1-2&keywords=ubiquiti+surge+protector

 

[RealEstateGuy]

@tangent

What kind of fiber do you recommend? Are there any tutorials you can point me to?

How many units per building?

Depends on the community for us, but in my trial community, it is 8 units per building.

How many buildings per community?

10-50 depending on the community.

How many cameras you you looking at per building?

I wasn't thinking about it on a per building basis but rather on a coverage basis. I took a site map and identified the areas I want to see the most. For 167 units (one of our properties), I outlined 20 cameras.

What are you hoping to cover with the cameras? Cars coming and going? Perimeter? Common areas like pools, laundry, and playgrounds? Exterior of structures?

Perimeter, high traffic areas, leasing office, cars coming and going

Who's going to watch the footage? Will it be monitored actively or just when something happens?

Haven't decided yet. I've looked at one proposal from a monitoring company but I think that I would rather do the monitoring in-house or react when something happens.

Thoughts?

 

[TonyR]

2) Please take a look at the links below. What do you think?

@TonyR -- how's this? https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-TOUGHCable-Shielded-Ethernet/dp/B008L143VW/ref=pd_sbs_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B008L143VW&pd_rd_r=AQ0AZWYAS37EBJ3KNRQW&pd_rd_w=A464B&pd_rd_wg=sVtlE&psc=1&refRID=AQ0AZWYAS37EBJ3KNRQW

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-ETH-SP-External-Suppressor/dp/B00R20OIAY/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1514152215&sr=1-2&keywords=ubiquiti+surge+protector

Those 2 are exactly what I use and suggest when it comes to CAT-5e.

BTW, @tangent has a VERY good point regarding the use of fiber (because of its dielectric properties) between buildings in a lightning prone area. You would place a media converter where needed to convert to Ethernet within the buildings. Also, a future Google Fiber promises ultra fast Internet, no sense letting your LAN be the bottleneck when accessed remotely.

I have installed Ubiquiti Layer 2 Transparent bridges between buildings and between houses and bars/shops 800 feet apart here in AL, USA where it is discouraged to have outdoor runs of metallic network cable due to severe lightning. Each bridge requires LOS (Line Of Sight) and costs between $350 to $600, including parts and labor.

Although the UIbiquiti equipment above performs very well, given a choice and the budget to make it happen, I would install fiber instead of them or metallic network cable.

 

[tangent]

@tangent

What kind of fiber do you recommend? Are there any tutorials you can point me to?

How many units per building?

Depends on the community for us, but in my trial community, it is 8 units per building.

How many buildings per community?

10-50 depending on the community.

How many cameras you you looking at per building?

I wasn't thinking about it on a per building basis but rather on a coverage basis. I took a site map and identified the areas I want to see the most. For 167 units (one of our properties), I outlined 20 cameras.

What are you hoping to cover with the cameras? Cars coming and going? Perimeter? Common areas like pools, laundry, and playgrounds? Exterior of structures?

Perimeter, high traffic areas, leasing office, cars coming and going

Who's going to watch the footage? Will it be monitored actively or just when something happens?

Haven't decided yet. I've looked at one proposal from a monitoring company but I think that I would rather do the monitoring in-house or react when something happens.

Thoughts?

Ultimately this is kind of nuanced. It would be helpful if you posted the site map you made, it would make it easier to offer advice.

There are wireless alternatives to Google Fiber including Webpass which google now owns and GigaMonster which has a presence in Atlanta.
If you're going to go to the trouble of trenching, you might as well run fiber and maybe some open conduits. Is that a DIY job?, not for most people.

 

[RealEstateGuy]

I am not sure that I understand how fiber works.

Do I ask Google to bring the fiber to the property and then I take it from there with my own fiber? What if Google doesn't currently bring fiber to my property?

I have attached a site plan with the street names blocked out for confidentiality.

 

[tangent]

I am not sure that I understand how fiber works.

Do I ask Google to bring the fiber to the property and then I take it from there with my own fiber? What if Google doesn't currently bring fiber to my property?

I have attached a site plan with the street names blocked out for confidentiality.

Sorry I may have confused you a bit.

Security cameras and faster internet are largely separate things. However there is potential to design things in a way that would make it easier for a provider like this to make services available in your complex.

As to the plan you uploaded, I would tend to approach it differently. I would put most of the cameras on buildings and then run fiber between the buildings. You could also attempt wireless links for the cameras, this would be a point to point link from one building to another. The cameras in any of these scenarios would be PoE connected to switches at some buildings.

If you click the hamburger menu on google maps you can turn labels off and not resort to redacting the images. Posting a clean image without any of your notes/cameras could be helpful.

What sort of prices were cctv contractors you talked to quoting?