Cables needed for ptz?

[blake]

I closed on my next job for 6 cams and an extra pull for a future ptz. I've never installed a ptz. Besides the normal cat cable run, do I need to pull an extra cable to power the ptz? Customer is going to only have the Hikvision 8 channel 8 port poe NVR. I'm not sure if the poe in the nvr has enough poe power or the ptz will draw too much.

 

[fenderman]

What model ptz? does it support poe+?

 

[blake]

I haven't selected a particular model yet. The camera is going to mounted about 20'-25' high under the peak of his roof in the backyard overlooking two roads and a field to catch anyone doing anything illegal. The only lighting at night is peoples backyard lights and vehicle headlights. The two models I looked at one has poe plus without ir and the other has high poe with ir. One is the LTS model PTZIP742X30 and the other is PTZIP772X30IR

 

[networkcameracritic]

If you don't know, then run power wire for 24VDC, of course the gauge depends on how long a run. I tried Hik and Dahua PTZ and for IR, the Dahua is mo better. Also, for the ability to see above the horizon, an issue with some PTZ because as you zoom in, it becomes more and more difficult to see taller objects.

 

[blake]

Okay Ty. Gonna run 20AWG solid as the run is about 80ft.

 

[milkisbad]

Those two PTZ with POE + will come with a free POE+ injector inside the box. also high poe is the actually the same thing. Will also work with POE+ switches if you prefer,

i don't think PTZ works with the POE inside the NVR..

772x30IR is this one:

http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/Products_show.asp?id=9188

742x30 is this one but in 30 x optical zoom:

http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/Products_show.asp?id=9186

For the IR model it can tilt up 15 degrees just like the dahua one to see above the horizon. (oddly the more expensive pro series with smart tracking doesn't have this feature...)

Pan / Tilt Range:	Pan: 360° endless; Tilt: ~15°~90° (Auto Flip)
Pan / Tilt Speed:	Pan Manual Speed: 0.1° ~160° /s, Pan Preset Speed: 240° /s Tilt Manual Speed: 0.1° ~120° /s, Tilt Preset Speed: 200° /s

 

[nayr]

shouldent 15 degrees above be listed as -15 not +15 if 0 is the horizon and 90 is straight down?

 

[milkisbad]

I think the specs from the browser is a typo on their site...

The PDF specs sheet does list it as -15 degree, sorry for the error above

http://www.hikvision.com/UploadFile/image/2013102507301011458.pdf

 

[blake]

So what extra will I need to add the 772 to his system?

 

[milkisbad]

you should only need cat5e, the injector will go in between the NVR's built-in POE and the PTZ camera.

those models do not come with RS 485 though, so if your customer needs to use a joystick they will need models with RS 485.

 

[blake]

You said the injector comes with the camera correct? Well I need a ptz that he can control from the NVR and from app on his smartphone.

 

[nayr]

ive never seen a Active PoE camera that came with an injector, typically the ones that come w/passive injectors are for cameras with non-standard voltages.. most installers wont touch an injector if they can help it and dont want to pay for something going straight into the bin.

The only industry injectors are accepted in use is WISP, where there is only 1 poe device on customer prem and no need for a midspan or poe switch.

 

[blake]

So what ptz would you suggest for this application Nayr?

 

[nayr]

I would suggest you run a cat6 and a 3 conductor 18awg thermostat wire for the Future PTZ..

If the PTZ you choose can doe PoE+ then you have 3 leads going to the camera for Inputs/Outputs.. With a PTZ you can setup sensors to trigger presets.
If your run is really long or the camera really high powered you can use 2 pair for 24VAC and use the extra wire as an output from the camera to your alarm panel and wire sensors directly up to your camera's inputs... This is what I did, because all my PoE+ ports are used by Access POints.

Worst case if you find you arent using any extra wires then use them to ground your camera's metal case.

 

[vector18]

I would not run 20 gauge no matter how close it is. Go with at least 18awg and run a 2 pair just in case, red/black/green/white. You never know what the customer might request or you can offer him as an option. As far as which model, if the area is well lit, go with a mini speed dome. For residential, it's alot smaller than the big monsters with IR's and you can't follow the camera cause you don't really see the lens. If the area is dark, pretty much any of the Dahua PTZ's with IR's will work well. Nayr and myself has used the black face one and also like that one. It's alittle smaller than the white ones with IR's.


http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/sd59212s220s230s-hn-581.html

 

[blake]

Gotcha, 18-2 for power and cat6 cable for signal.

 

[networkcameracritic]

Use a voltage drop calculator, figuring 24v DC, 2 Amps - http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html Not sure how sensitive the cameras are, but I would shoot for less than a 5% voltage drop. 18 gauge is what is used for short extension cords, not 80'. You also don't have to run power back to your switch, you may be able to get power closer.

 

[nayr]

thats why you run 24VAC not DC for long runs... most PTZ's can take 24VAC input, and if not you can use a converter on the camera end like this: http://www.amazon.com/R-Tech-Current-Adapter-Surveillance-Security/dp/B00A6HABYM/

PoE is 48VDC and because the cameras run internally at a much lower voltage they can handle a huge % of voltage drop.. this is how PoE gets any distance is by tolerating a pretty large amount of resistance.

 

[blake]

The run from NVR to ptz is only about 60'.

 

[milkisbad]

The ptz is ac24v but the POE+ version doesn't come with the ac24v adapter since they expect people to use the POE+ injector