Camera placement advice/feedback

[boxerfan]

Hello,

I've been a lurker here for some time. I run blue iris but mostly use it to watch kids throughout the day. Nothing on the outside yet but had 2 Starlight varifocal turrets from Andy from our old TH as well as some 8MP swann turrets from a slick deal post recently. I'd like some advice on where I should start placing these cameras as well as what else I should fill out my setup with.
Please find attached pics of my home without markups. Next post will have ones I have marked up with placement ideas and thoughts

For reference, the garage door is 8ft. I have my homer bucket full of rocks and 8ft 2x4 at the ready to start testing placement options

Thanks in advanced!

 

[boxerfan]

Here's my initial thoughts on placement as well as some questions on what I've been having.

I'm leaning all turrets, but can/will do bullets if the situation dictates it.

Wiring will just about all be coming from inside the home through the wall at the exterior install location. The exception may be at the rear covered porch where I come down from the upper floor along the corner column.

In general our porch lights at the front door are always on at night. Same as the exterior garage door lights. And same with rear entry door and the welled exit way. For those areas, I'm thinking high MP turrets since I'll have the necessary light to not require starlights at these locations.

For the sides and rest of the rear of the house, I'm thinking starlights as I won't be able to provide enough light in those areas.

My HOA appears to like to minimize the overal # of cameras ... due to concerns over aesthetics. I'm sure I could fight it, but I'm not sure I'd like to. They do not have a max # of cameras but they do become more picky once the # of cameras starts to get high. Balancing act I suppose as with everything HOA related.

I keep thinking my bay window is a blind spot and I have no way of seeing the far left side without placing a camera directly over it. I also am torn about having a camera to the right of the bay window, facing right or a camera on the far corner of the house facing left (I've marked up that side with these questions)

The fireplace creates a unique (and annoying) footprint which creates some dead spots. Not sure how to deal with that other than running cameras on both sides of the firplace looking down/out into yard to cover the hopper window entrances

After those initial thoughts, I'm open to ideas, comments and suggestions on placement, types of cameras, etc.
Thanks!

Please find my initial camera placement thoughts on these attachments

 

[looney2ns]

welcome,
if you haven't yet, read the cliff notes in the wiki at the top of the page.
You have a good start on a plan.
Using at least one varifocal Starlight turret, use your test stand in the areas you are unsure of for testing. Test day and night.
The front door, you may want to consider mounting a cam at 5ft to catch faces at the dr and packages on the floor instead of at the top of the door. The Dahua mini wedge 2.8mm works well for this.
I would not be too concerned with the bay window, the cam facing the front will cover it. I wouldn't worry about the fireplace.
Stick with the turrets as much as you can. Based on your pictures, they'd work fine everywhere.
Remember, you want to know who did it, not just what happened so don't mount higher than 8ft.
Again, read the cliff notes.

 

[mat200]

Welcome @boxerfan

You're off to a great start.

Find a friend with a hoodie and baseball cap to help play burglar when you're testing.

Definitely try to place the cameras by the doors to catch a straight on facial image. I really like the front door camera at eye level to people.

Consider the dual lens Dahua OEM camera looney2ns has reviewed for possible placement by the front or basement doors.

 

[looney2ns]

Dual cam: Review-Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M Dual Starlight Cam

 

[boxerfan]

thanks you @looney2ns and @mat200 I'll have to revisit the cliff notes and see what else I can do.

@looney2ns for the right side, do you think I should keep the 2 cams facing each other or just the one from the back looking forward (is 2 overkill?)?

And on the rear, do you have any suggestions for different placements aside from the 3 I marked up? The 1 by door for sure, but the other 2 I'm slightly torn on placement as I said. Do you suspect that starlight turrets will serve me well enough and provide adequate coverage?

also, regarding packages, it may not have been too clear, but on the one pic of the front, I had thoughts of placing a cam up under the porch (basically on the side of the garage wall) and have it aimed at the door sideways. see the attachment. I was thinking bullet would work here as it'll be tucked up and under and won't be overly visible from the street.


Past that, I have been trying to hold off one of the laview/rca/hikvision door bell cams till it seems working better. I do have slim skybell that I need to install at some point which i may just use in the interim

On the welled exit, I was thinking of using the starlight wedge. Any reason this would be a bad idea (aside from spiders and what not ... and boy do i have spiders down there!)

I'll have to take a look at the dual starlight cam in the review thanks! I'm somewhat torn over just go ahead with all starlight turrets or mix/match with some of the Dahua and Hikvision rebadges that tend to pop up on Slickdeals. Any thoughts on that? Stick with a brand/line or get the best available at reasonable prices?

Thanks again!

 

[mat200]

thanks you @looney2ns and @mat200 I'll have to revisit the cliff notes and see what else I can do.

@looney2ns for the right side, do you think I should keep the 2 cams facing each other or just the one from the back looking forward (is 2 overkill?)?

And on the rear, do you have any suggestions for different placements aside from the 3 I marked up? The 1 by door for sure, but the other 2 I'm slightly torn on placement as I said. Do you suspect that starlight turrets will serve me well enough and provide adequate coverage?

also, regarding packages, it may not have been too clear, but on the one pic of the front, I had thoughts of placing a cam up under the porch (basically on the side of the garage wall) and have it aimed at the door sideways. see the attachment. I was thinking bullet would work here as it'll be tucked up and under and won't be overly visible from the street.
View attachment 30635

Past that, I have been trying to hold off one of the laview/rca/hikvision door bell cams till it seems working better. I do have slim skybell that I need to install at some point which i may just use in the interim

On the welled exit, I was thinking of using the starlight wedge. Any reason this would be a bad idea (aside from spiders and what not ... and boy do i have spiders down there!)

I'll have to take a look at the dual starlight cam in the review thanks! I'm somewhat torn over just go ahead with all starlight turrets or mix/match with some of the Dahua and Hikvision rebadges that tend to pop up on Slickdeals. Any thoughts on that? Stick with a brand/line or get the best available at reasonable prices?

Thanks again!

Hi Boxerfan,

I recommend going with quality if you can afford it, and imho better to have a few extra cameras than a couple less.

Go with a 16 port PoE NVR or switch, plan for 8+ cameras. Remember a good alarm system.

 

[looney2ns]

Yes, if you want two cams on the right side, face them at each other.....but, the best thing is to use your test rig (or 2) and see what you think.
FYI: I only have one cam looking down the sides of my house using choke points.

Lots of times it all looks good on paper, but when you start testing....things may change.
They did for me and a lot of us here in the beginning.

 

[Fastb]

boxerfan,

Welcome to the forum!
Looney2ns and mat200 shared very sound advice. So I'll only add some finer points.

Lots of times it all looks good on paper, but when you start testing....things may change.
They did for me and a lot of us here in the beginning.

True, true. I've moved several cams.
On paper, the location looked wise.
In practice, not so ideal.
The I used a test rig, and moved the cams.
Months later, I decided to tweak the locations some more.

Living with a live feed is the real test. I have a small monitor in the kitchen. When people come up our driveway, trip IVS or the ODB850 PIR+radar sensor, we get the alert. The cam positions, height, FOV, and proximity to choke points made me want to "dial-in" the best cam location. A quick glance at the kitchen monitor give an excellent, dialed-in view of what's going on. My wife loves it, since our kitch and LR windows don't face the driveway.

Embarrassed to say, most of cams are only temporarily screwed to the house. The Cat 6 cables run up and across the roof, to my 2nd floor "lab". My wife, who grew up in farm country in Evansville IN, is pragmatic to the bone. No problems with WAF, at least so far. When I say "it's temporary, I'll hide the wires soon", she lets it go....

So use the text rig. Get really comfortable with cam locations. Then make permanent.

Have fun!
Fast

 

[boxerfan]

Yes, if you want two cams on the right side, face them at each other.....but, the best thing is to use your test rig (or 2) and see what you think.
FYI: I only have one cam looking down the sides of my house using choke points.

Lots of times it all looks good on paper, but when you start testing....things may change.
They did for me and a lot of us here in the beginning.

cool deal. Yeah I know what you mean. Once it's up on the test rig and I'm looking at it live, everything goes out the window. "oh that fence blocks most of your view" or "hm, never thought THAT shurb would get in the way"

Also, do you suggest anything looking out above my welled exit? You can see it on the full rear view picture. It's set in by about 6 feet (you can seethe black railing). I've kind of given up on that area as I'll be putting something by the doorway.

Another question for you and @mat200 . Is there an easy way to determine what the best fixed camera is to use based on the varifocal settings? In other words, the turrets go from 2.7mm to 12 mm. The fixed ones look to be 2.8 3.6 6, etc. When using the varifocal, how do I know what equivalent fixed lens I should be looking for? Sorry if it's a obvious question, but poking around the webinterface all I see is the slider from 0 to 700 or so.

 

[boxerfan]

boxerfan,

Welcome to the forum!
Looney2ns and mat200 shared very sound advice. So I'll only add some finer points.



True, true. I've moved several cams.
On paper, the location looked wise.
In practice, not so ideal.
The I used a test rig, and moved the cams.
Months later, I decided to tweak the locations some more.

Living with a live feed is the real test. I have a small monitor in the kitchen. When people come up our driveway, trip IVS or the ODB850 PIR+radar sensor, we get the alert. The cam positions, height, FOV, and proximity to choke points made me want to "dial-in" the best cam location. A quick glance at the kitchen monitor give an excellent, dialed-in view of what's going on. My wife loves it, since our kitch and LR windows don't face the driveway.

Embarrassed to say, most of cams are only temporarily screwed to the house. The Cat 6 cables run up and across the roof, to my 2nd floor "lab". My wife, who grew up in farm country in Evansville IN, is pragmatic to the bone. No problems with WAF, at least so far. When I say "it's temporary, I'll hide the wires soon", she lets it go....

So use the text rig. Get really comfortable with cam locations. Then make permanent.

Have fun!
Fast

Hi Fast,
Thanks for some finer points. Yeah, test rig is up next. Need to find some time between work, taking care of the lawn, taking care of the kids ... ugh. Will probably need to get a few more homer buckets so i can put up more than one at a time. For extended position testing, did you just leave it all out for a day or so? Or did you bring it all in everyday once you were done adjusting? Just trying to figure out how to combat it being temporary but also worrying about it all getting rained on if I leave it out for an extended dry run period

 

[Fastb]

For extended position testing, did you just leave it all out for a day or so? Or did you bring it all in everyday once you were done adjusting?

I'd recommend not bringing in the test rig cams every night. Checking night images is important. You mentioned "oh, that fence" and "oh that shrub". Nightime, it could be "Oh, too much IR reflection from the soffit/facia/etc". Or the "Smart IR" adjusts intensity, so I can see the parked car, but everything else beyond is too dark"
At this point, you may decide you want "external IR" and disable the cam's internal IR.

Just trying to figure out how to combat it being temporary but also worrying about it all getting rained on if I leave it out for an extended dry run period

Outdoor cams can handle the rain. Even the backside. Sealing a cam to a house exterior is intended to keep water from following the Cat6 cable through the siding. I wrapped the IP cable connection in two baggies, wrapped/taped it, and put the ziplock side facing down.
I tested for days. (and nights). Checked images of guests arriving ("Is the cam too high?") And "do my driveway motion lights cause artifacts and image degradation?"

Point is: Once you permanently mount the cams, you live with them for years. Don't rush into it. Many folks here have tales of relocating cams, the headaches, and puttying holes.

 

[Fastb]

boxerfan,

If your cams are for after-the-fact figuring out what happened during an "incident", then I'll modify my guidance. ie: some people rarely use their camera surveillance system during normal times.

My guidance comes from a different spot. We use the cam images everyday, frequently. We like to know someone is here, before they ring the door bell. I like to know when the UPS/FedEx guy arrives. If I promptly meet them in the driveway, they are less likely to toss a future delivery from 15 feet from my front door.

So consider my perspective and objectives. Your's may vary.

 

[boxerfan]

I'd recommend not bringing in the test rig cams every night. Checking night images is important. You mentioned "oh, that fence" and "oh that shrub". Nightime, it could be "Oh, too much IR reflection from the soffit/facia/etc". Or the "Smart IR" adjusts intensity, so I can see the parked car, but everything else beyond is too dark"
At this point, you may decide you want "external IR" and disable the cam's internal IR.



Outdoor cams can handle the rain. Even the backside. Sealing a cam to a house exterior is intended to keep water from following the Cat6 cable through the siding. I wrapped the IP cable connection in two baggies, wrapped/taped it, and put the ziplock side facing down.
I tested for days. (and nights). Checked images of guests arriving ("Is the cam too high?") And "do my driveway motion lights cause artifacts and image degradation?"

Point is: Once you permanently mount the cams, you live with them for years. Don't rush into it. Many folks here have tales of relocating cams, the headaches, and puttying holes.

Ok cool. the temp waterproofing solutions sound like a good way to alleviate my fears on the test rig while I put it through some paces. I hear and understand the "do it right the first time" mentality. Appreciate the input and tips!

 

[boxerfan]

boxerfan,

If your cams are for after-the-fact figuring out what happened during an "incident", then I'll modify my guidance. ie: some people rarely use their camera surveillance system during normal times.

My guidance comes from a different spot. We use the cam images everyday, frequently. We like to know someone is here, before they ring the door bell. I like to know when the UPS/FedEx guy arrives. If I promptly meet them in the driveway, they are less likely to toss a future delivery from 15 feet from my front door.

So consider my perspective and objectives. Your's may vary.

I'm more inclined to use it to know what's going, who's coming up my driveway/front door etc. My wife works from home frequently, so it'd also help her try to manage people coming and going along with kiddie nap schedules.

Plus, who wouldn't want to stop Joe UPS/FEDEX from launching your package the last 10 feet they didnt feel like walking

 

[mat200]

...
Another question for you and @mat200 . Is there an easy way to determine what the best fixed camera is to use based on the varifocal settings? In other words, the turrets go from 2.7mm to 12 mm. The fixed ones look to be 2.8 3.6 6, etc. When using the varifocal, how do I know what equivalent fixed lens I should be looking for? Sorry if it's a obvious question, but poking around the webinterface all I see is the slider from 0 to 700 or so.

HI Boxerfan,

Not an obvious answer to it.

I think a few people have played with it a bit.

Best way is to get something to measure the H FOV, place a few stakes representing the "wall" of the H FOV cone in the yard for each one and play around with the varifocal until you get a setting and make note of that.

Hmm... wondering if someone has already done that here.

Here's my calculations on the 2MP Dahua OEM starlight domes:

Dahua IPC-HDW4231EM-AS starlight fixed lens 1080p 1920x1080
w/2.8mm lens FOV H 110 degrees: 10 feet { area covered 95.94 sq feet covered }
w/3.6mm lens FOV H 87 degrees: 12.65 feet { 121.43 sq feet covered }
w/6mm lens FOV H 51 degrees: 21.58 feet { 207.16 sq feet covered }

 

[boxerfan]

HI Boxerfan,

Not an obvious answer to it.

I think a few people have played with it a bit.

Best way is to get something to measure the H FOV, place a few stakes representing the "wall" of the H FOV cone in the yard for each one and play around with the varifocal until you get a setting and make note of that.

Hmm... wondering if someone has already done that here.

Here's my calculations on the 2MP Dahua OEM starlight domes:

Dahua IPC-HDW4231EM-AS starlight fixed lens 1080p 1920x1080
w/2.8mm lens FOV H 110 degrees: 10 feet { area covered 95.94 sq feet covered }
w/3.6mm lens FOV H 87 degrees: 12.65 feet { 121.43 sq feet covered }
w/6mm lens FOV H 51 degrees: 21.58 feet { 207.16 sq feet covered }

Ok that's a bit to digest, but I think I follow it. Something to play with/stew on. Thanks mat!

I suppose I could splurge for all varifocals as if my plan pans out, I'd only be looking at about 6 more turrets as I have 2 varifocals and 2 of the 8MP Swann turrets. But at the same time, saving a dollar is saving a dollar.

Are there actually any cons of going all varifocals aside from cost? At the absolute worst, I could work some extra overtime and slowly build up the $ differences.

 

[Fastb]

Pic is 1K words!
My "temp" cam mount. Baggies to keep water out.
No drilling into siding. Cam mount "test rig" hung from balcony.
I had a 12mm cam there first. Great fov. Then replaced that with a varifocal starlight. (cam models listed in signature file)
The varifocal catches some of the roof in the left side of the image, unlike the 12mm fixed.
So the two cams have slightly different FOV, even with the varifocal adjusted all the way back. The 12mm fixed has a slightly narrower FOV, despite the specs.
So I will move the cam to the left, and down a bit. I have it mounted high, to look downhill along my driveway.
Tweaks, that don't show up on a paper exercise.
The "temp" hookup has been there all winter. This summer, I'll tuck the camera around the corner, so it's peaking out and less visible.

Submitted for your consideration. Don't lock in too early to cam location....

 

[mat200]

Ok that's a bit to digest, but I think I follow it. Something to play with/stew on. Thanks mat!

I suppose I could splurge for all varifocals as if my plan pans out, I'd only be looking at about 6 more turrets as I have 2 varifocals and 2 of the 8MP Swann turrets. But at the same time, saving a dollar is saving a dollar.

Are there actually any cons of going all varifocals aside from cost? At the absolute worst, I could work some extra overtime and slowly build up the $ differences.

Hi Boxer,

Of course it would be easy to pick up a Dahua IPC-HDW4231EM-AS starlight fixed lens 1080p 1920x1080
w/3.6mm lens FOV H 87 degrees: 12.65 feet { 121.43 sq feet covered }

and use it to compare with the varifocals you have as well as with the Swanns.

All of those cameras are good and worth keeping, it would just be a question of where want to place them, and deciding on the remaining models.

iirc the IPC-HDW52xx model was slightly better in low light than the IPC-HDW42xx models - not much, just a bit

Remember since you're mixing Dahua and Swann cameras you will probably want to go with Blue Iris as it works well with both brands.

 

[boxerfan]

Hi Boxer,

Of course it would be easy to pick up a Dahua IPC-HDW4231EM-AS starlight fixed lens 1080p 1920x1080
w/3.6mm lens FOV H 87 degrees: 12.65 feet { 121.43 sq feet covered }

and use it to compare with the varifocals you have as well as with the Swanns.

All of those cameras are good and worth keeping, it would just be a question of where want to place them, and deciding on the remaining models.

iirc the IPC-HDW52xx model was slightly better in low light than the IPC-HDW42xx models - not much, just a bit

Remember since you're mixing Dahua and Swann cameras you will probably want to go with Blue Iris as it works well with both brands.

Roger that on blue iris. I suppose I could probably pawn off the Swanns onto some friends, but based on some of your (?) comments over on slick deals i thought I'd go for some 4k/8MP cams for places where I know I'd have available light (like the garage entry ways, front door and rear entry). I know the 2MP Varifocal Starlights are super popular here, but is there a Dahua rough equivalent from Andy to the Swanns I grabbed that also doesn't break the bank? I've got no need for 8MP starlight varifocals as I think I remember seeing them as being very $$$ and would just want high MP with good well-lit performance along with acceptable night performance (assuming I'll leave IR off and provide lighting from my existing house lights)

I have a variety of Hikvision/OEM cubes inside the house already running with Blue Iris, but as my exterior plan takes shape, I'm beginning to wonder BI will start to choke on 6 2MP cubes + what looks to be 3 or 4 8MP + 4or 5 2MP turrets on the outside. I was thinking if I should just run split systems for interior/exterior. And if I should/do go that route, leave BI running the inside cameras and possibly just go with a Dahua/Dahua rebadge NVR for the external ones and just stay with Dahua guts for the external cameras