Camera placement and vendor/model suggestions

[nathasm]

Hello all,

I'm starting the build out/install my POE security system with BlueIris. I have attached my current thoughts on how I am planning on approaching the installation.

KEY:
Stars - Entry points (doors/windows)
Yellow - Identification as these are access points in to the house (Recognition/Identification areas)
Red - Detection/Observation
Purple - Ideally a good multi purpose DORI camera. But would consider putting the DO in the purple and adding a second RI camera near it.

1) Since I have a very wide house (150ft) with a pull-thru driveway, does the current placement make sense? In the front of the house, I'm less concerned about plate detection, but more "is a car/person here?" detection. I was looking at a dual-lense camera (something like a 2-in-1 camera like the 2x4MP from Duhua). Wide FOV and then RI cameras near the entry points.
2) Since I'm looking for DO - for daytime, and RI for night time protection/detection, are there certain models that folks recommend? Dome vs Bullet?

Currently looking at Dahua/EmpireTech or Amcrest cameras. Ideally like to keep the total installation under $1k-$2k.

Thanks!

 

[wittaj]

@EMPIRETECANDY is a trusted vendor here, so you can't go wrong with that. His cameras are full Dahua OEM, whereas Amcrest is Dahua OEM but with options stripped or lessor materials and sensors used.

The 5442 series is a great camera series that you should look into. @sebastiantombs will be along with his post of links to the various cameras we use around here.


You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for (and what are popular in the box kits), someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera to IDENTIFY them, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm or the 4K/X - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• T5449H-ASE-D2 2.8mm fixed lens - anything within 10 feet of camera where the object would be in a backlit condition at night
• 5441F-AS-E2 (AKA Boobie cam) or E3241F-AS-M- great choice for a front door camera. The boobie cam can have one lens pointed down for packages
• T5241H-AS-PV - Great little active deterrence camera with two way talk. Good for anything within 10 feet of camera or as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE or 5831R-ZE- varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I think you're trying to cover too much with too few cameras. Our house is only about 50 or 60 feet long and there are four cameras on the front and rear of the house, proper with two on each end. Then throw in the tree mounted, gate post, shed mounted and deck post mounted cameras. All of them are set to provide ID at close range and sort of double as overview at longer ranges. Focal length is critical to be able to do that.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Another thing is that cameras are for surveillance, an alarm system is for security. A video system can show you who did what and when and, to certain extent, alert you when it actually happens, but nothing beats a true alarm system with very large sirens both inside and outside of the house. My alarm is so loud inside, both on the main floor and in the basement, that it hurts to be inside when it goes off.

Wittaj covered the camera models, but here are links to reviews and some other tips. I have at least one of each of the model series listed here except for the 8MP (still waiting for it in a 6mm lens version) -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

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ipcamtalk.com

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

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[Flintstone61]

Who are these intelligent people that ask for help before they leap?
(<---Indian name should be "Too proud") I put the shit up and then found IPCAMTALK ...LOL
and spend twice as much money, and am still learning.

 

[MarvinK]

I think you're trying to cover too much with too few cameras. Our house is only about 50 or 60 feet long and there are four cameras on the front and rear of the house, proper with two on each end. Then throw in the tree mounted, gate post, shed mounted and deck post mounted cameras. . . .

I wanted to reply to your post the other day but things got moving so fast I forgot. There's no question that the forum has pointed out my incorrect beginnings by expecting 2 cameras to supply me with a lot of information. If I understand you correctly you have four cameras on the front of your house and also four cameras on the rear of your house. Am I correct in that assumption? My house also is only 55 feet total in width, it is set off of the front street by 40 feet, the backyard is 70 feet wide by 100 feet deep with a shed in one back corner. I also have a 30 foot tall TV antenna tower on one end of the house.

Looks to me as though whether the cameras I need are mid price range or are upper price range I'm still gonna have to take my time and get one, maybe two at a time. I guess that's better than none at all even if it does take quite awhile to get it all completed. Anyway, thanks for all the advice that you have given me and the information for me to study. I'm really enjoying reading the detail that I knew nothing about.

 

[Rob2020]

You have a very solid budget. I would start with a single Dahua 5442 varifocal to get familiar with what works, views, focal length, etc.

Plan on more cameras than mentioned, buy a switch that supports a minimum of eight cameras. Keep in mind an eight port switch does not equal eight cameras, you can also add a second switch if needed. Don't cheap out on your switch (name brand, adequate poe power, well reviewed), the Dahua/Andy/EmpireTech are great value cameras.

 

[sebastiantombs]

For the house, itself, the basic configuration is three cameras on the long sides house. One on each end looking back toward each other and one more in the middle looking straight out. This applies to the front and rear of the house. The sides have two cameras looking back toward each other. That totals out to ten on the house for the basic system. Throw in the doorbell camera and the gate post camera for twelve, technically, on the house.

We park our vehicles behind the house which lead to two cameras to cover them, one is shed mounted and the other is mounted on a post for the handrail of the deck. That totals fourteen at this point.

Two more were added to the shed to fill in blind spots in the back yard. Another two were added to what I call the lower front yard (house is on a little bit of a hill and set back ~150 feet from the street). That made it 18 cameras.

Throw in the interior cameras, common area on the first floor and two in the basement. I then started watching critter traffic under a gate on one side of the yard. That makes it 22 at the moment. Another will be going into the lower front yard to do driveway duty specifically to catch approaching pedestrians and vehicle.

 

[looney2ns]

Study this: cliff notes