Camera Recommendation for POS stations?

[Roman]

All-

Does anyone have any recommendations for cams viewing point of sale stations / terminals for bar / pub type of environment? I am helping a buddy replace some older analog cams and we will be getting a new IP / NVR system (most likely sticking with Hik for all cams) and 5 are needed just for POS areas. The place of business is actually a billiards establishment with a small bar off to the side. Meaning lights will be on during business hours so night vision capability is only after hours. Originally I was just going to put in all turrets just because they are great low light cams but not sure they would pick up the details needed at a POS terminal even at something like a 4mm which is typically the narrowest lens you find in the open market (without going overseas on ebay). I was then thinking about doing a variable lens from 2.8 to 12mm (either bullet or dome) but they are double the price of turrets. I don't see any bullet cams narrower than 4mm either?

Just to get a picture in your head of the layout of the establishment the building is basically a big box / rectangle probably 75 feet long by 50 feet wide. I was thinking turrets for the main view of the pool table area mounted about 10-12 feet high on the walls instead of the ceiling because the ceilings are kind of high in my opinion at 15 feet or so for a decent shot facing downwards.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated...thanks for you time!

 

[CaliGirl]

Don't limit your purchase to USA. I just purchased through alieexpress and got exactly what I wanted in near the same amount of time for much much cheaper then the inflated USA prices. Get the proper focal length or the cameras will do no good. I just saw a restaurant that had what you are looking to do. They had a turret on the ceiling looking directly down at the POS to record all monetary transactions with the customers. Then several other cameras that capture the faces at different angles. Record it all through a Dahua NVR for simplicity or Blue Iris on a computer. Then you can always go back a few weeks and see exactly what took place on the various camera angles in sync.

Here are some examples of a 6mm: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/5132-Dahua-4mp-6mm-turrets-(IPC-HDW4421C)

$67: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-Dahua-IPC-HDW4421S-IR-IP-Camera-4MP-Full-HD-Network-turret-cctv-Dome-Camera-Support/619411_32628029510.html

 

[nayr]

You can use something like this hooked directly up to the POS units: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/H-264-HD-IPTV-Video-Encoder-VGA-To-IP-Encoder-HD-VGA-Audio-Digital-Encoder-For/32710534056.html

and then you'll be able to record on your NVR everything done on the POS terminals and how.. pair it with an overhead camera and there you go.. should work with a Dahua or Hikvision recorder/cams

 

[Roman]

Don't limit your purchase to USA. I just purchased through alieexpress and got exactly what I wanted in near the same amount of time for much much cheaper then the inflated USA prices. Get the proper focal length or the cameras will do no good. I just saw a restaurant that had what you are looking to do. They had a turret on the ceiling looking directly down at the POS to record all monetary transactions with the customers. Then several other cameras that capture the faces at different angles. Record it all through a Dahua NVR for simplicity or Blue Iris on a computer. Then you can always go back a few weeks and see exactly what took place on the various camera angles in sync.

Here are some examples of a 6mm: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/5132-Dahua-4mp-6mm-turrets-(IPC-HDW4421C)

$67: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-Dahua-IPC-HDW4421S-IR-IP-Camera-4MP-Full-HD-Network-turret-cctv-Dome-Camera-Support/619411_32628029510.html

CaliGirl-

Yes, I have purchased some overseas cams for myself in the past and personally I am fine with that. However for this project I would feel a little more comfortable buying from US and also having a warranty from places like Nelly's or LTS. I may be able to get away with a 4mm turret directly above as you stated you saw in a restaurant you visited.

 

[Roman]

You can use something like this hooked directly up to the POS units: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/H-264-HD-IPTV-Video-Encoder-VGA-To-IP-Encoder-HD-VGA-Audio-Digital-Encoder-For/32710534056.html

and then you'll be able to record on your NVR everything done on the POS terminals and how.. pair it with an overhead camera and there you go.. should work with a Dahua or Hikvision recorder/cams

Nayr-

That's pretty slick for sure. Didn't even know something like that existed! Prob a little more in depth than what's needed but def something to keep in the back of my mind. Most likely we will probably just rely on a cam directly above or within the direct vicinity of the POS station to serve as a "deterrent" and to catch someone when they do attempt to do some shady stuff

Hopefully that will be enough.....

 

[nayr]

yeah it depends on the needs, alot of high end bars and restaurants will do it so they can playback the overhead video and what was actually inputted into the POS terminal side by side in full clarity.. But if the employees are not scamming you out of hundreds/thousands by ringing up free drinks or under charging and over collecting then you probably just need the intimidation factor to keep em cool..

but it works both ways, maybe put it on a single terminal at first and let it slip to the employees that your recording the POS screen too and you might not need anymore hehe

 

[PSPCommOp]

Depending on the distance the camera is mounted to the register, use 4/6mm and cover strictly the keypad and cash drawer (FOV big enough to over the register when the drawer is open with a small buffer around the edges). If you want a wider area, use multiple cameras. Wide area's won't be able to catch skimming if they are very good. The more detailed and up close video for the keypad and cash drawer, the better. Years ago I worked at a restaurant and one of the workers was like a magician skimming $20's here and $10's there. Once they finally installed the camera about 5 feet above the register and caught it on tape you really saw how good someone could be and how much someone could make off of the place over a shift.
For multiple POS stations, I'd recommend something like nayr mentioned above. I'd also say along with one camera strictly at each POS where there is an actual cash/credit card register and positioned like I've listed above. Even if some of the POS are say tablets with a CC reader, one camera could help prevent credit card skimming.

Depending on the rest of the layout and what you want to cover, additional wide angle lenses to record the floor/tables coupled with some 4/6mm lense covering the entrances as well as the bathroom areas. Amazing how many break-in's I've seen where people squeeze their ass thru bathroom window. Or take product from the business into the bathroom and when they walk back into the main area, mysteriously whatever it was they carried in with them has disappeared. I know some people are wary of recording that area but if you get a decent 6mm or varifocal, it can be mounted away from the choke point and zoomed in and no one other then the staff is the wiser. Bathrooms are also a hotspot for drug use. I'm not saying that's the case with this particular place of business but cameras being present can help deter that type of activity.

And def look into an NTP as nayr has suggested in a lot of other posts. Keeping an accurate timeline between cameras is extremely important if it catches a theft. An example would be an employee skimming at one POS register and the camera mounted above only catches a hand or sleeve and nothing else is identifiable (very likely if the staff wear similar clothing/uniforms). Otherwise a defense attorney could easily say "prove that hand is my client as opposed to any of countless other employees who had access to it". If you can prove from two different camera angles that Employee A was viewed on the wide angle as being at the POS register at say 23:14:15 hrs and the camera above that register caught a hand skimming bills at the exact same time, its much harder to defend. If the internal clocks on the cameras get out of sync by even say 15-20 seconds and another employee uses the POS register immediately after, the defense attorney will have a field day.

Nelly's would def be a good place to start, or message MilkIsBad for some LTS info. I'm sure both have helped setup businesses like you've mentioned.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Buy your NVR from someplace like Nelly's and some cameras that will fit some of your needs, but buy the specialty turrets and cameras from overseas. Get what you need. 4mm isn't enough for counting cash unless it's very close.

 

[Roman]

but it works both ways, maybe put it on a single terminal at first and let it slip to the employees that your recording the POS screen too and you might not need anymore hehe

Or just tell them that there are internal devices / boxes within the POS machine and transactions are being logged...that along with the IP cam may be just enough...lol

 

[Roman]

Depending on the distance the camera is mounted to the register, use 4/6mm and cover strictly the keypad and cash drawer (FOV big enough to over the register when the drawer is open with a small buffer around the edges).

Yep, was planning on possibly doing a varifocal bullet for the POS stations which will give me the 2.8-12mm lens. Wanting to put it in close proximity to the stations and really focus in on the cash drawer / machine / etc.

Depending on the rest of the layout and what you want to cover, additional wide angle lenses to record the floor/tables coupled with some 4/6mm lense covering the entrances as well as the bathroom areas. Amazing how many break-in's I've seen where people squeeze their ass thru bathroom window. Or take product from the business into the bathroom and when they walk back into the main area, mysteriously whatever it was they carried in with them has disappeared. I know some people are wary of recording that area but if you get a decent 6mm or varifocal, it can be mounted away from the choke point and zoomed in and no one other then the staff is the wiser. Bathrooms are also a hotspot for drug use. I'm not saying that's the case with this particular place of business but cameras being present can help deter that type of activity.

All valid points and noted! Thanks...

Nelly's would def be a good place to start, or message MilkIsBad for some LTS info. I'm sure both have helped setup businesses like you've mentioned.

Already all it...have contacted Nelly's and just received updated catalog from Frankie!

Thanks so much for your assistance...appreciate it. It helps a lot!

 

[Roman]

Buy your NVR from someplace like Nelly's and some cameras that will fit some of your needs, but buy the specialty turrets and cameras from overseas. Get what you need. 4mm isn't enough for counting cash unless it's very close.

Yep I was thinking about that as well but if I remember correctly I remember reading (I believe Nayr even mentioned it) that if you mismatch NVR's and cams with different region codes you "can" run into issues with compatibility and so forth. And we all know when buying from places like alienexpress, ebay, and amazon you never know what your going to get versus buying from some place like Nelly's or LTS.

 

[Roman]

BTW, what is everyone's thoughts about putting 2.8mm turrests on the walls to watch over the table areas say 10-12 feet high versus putting them on the ceiling (due to the ceiling being so high...would not get a lot of facial recognition I wouldn't think)?

 

[Kawboy12R]

That would depend a bit on the layout, but 10 feet high is plenty high. You would have to consider obstructions, distances etc that we can't see. Higher would be better for seeing in the distance behind obstructions and people but have a sharper angle to faces and make them a greater distance from the camera. Try placing one or two temporarily and seeing how you like the view when the place is full of people. Are you trying to chase out drug dealers? Maybe consider some on the ceiling up high looking down into back corner cubicles or something.

 

[Roman]

That would depend a bit on the layout, but 10 feet high is plenty high. You would have to consider obstructions, distances etc that we can't see. Higher would be better for seeing in the distance behind obstructions and people but have a sharper angle to faces and make them a greater distance from the camera. Try placing one or two temporarily and seeing how you like the view when the place is full of people. Are you trying to chase out drug dealers? Maybe consider some on the ceiling up high looking down into back corner cubicles or something.

Good idea about the temp placement to see how we like the view. And no we are not trying to chase out drug dealers...more or less just to keep an eye on the patrons and if anything "were" (maybe I should say when things "do") happen at least we have some cam footage to look at

 

[PSPCommOp]

@Roman, just tagged you in another thread but heres the link in case it didn't work.

https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/14287-HIKVision-POS-Integration

Something else to consider

 

[Cellularwisdom89]

hi, will this item work with my qc8916 nvr
H.264 HD IPTV Video Encoder VGA To IP Encoder HD VGA + Audio Digital Encoder For Live Broadcast Hotel System HD VGA Input-in Radio & TV Broadcast Equipments from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

I need it to record my pos system. Pos is a software on a pc with windows 10

 

[fenderman]

hi, will this item work with my qc8916 nvr
H.264 HD IPTV Video Encoder VGA To IP Encoder HD VGA + Audio Digital Encoder For Live Broadcast Hotel System HD VGA Input-in Radio & TV Broadcast Equipments from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

I need it to record my pos system. Pos is a software on a pc with windows 10

It should...this might work as well
Screen Onvif |
Also see this Tips and tricks: Recording your desktop activity on Hikvision NVR using VLC

 

[mtbear]

hi, will this item work with my qc8916 nvr
H.264 HD IPTV Video Encoder VGA To IP Encoder HD VGA + Audio Digital Encoder For Live Broadcast Hotel System HD VGA Input-in Radio & TV Broadcast Equipments from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

I need it to record my pos system. Pos is a software on a pc with windows 10

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