Can BI mimic IVS motion capture functionality?

[nbstl68]

Hi,
I'm looking at a couple of cameras...some have just basic motion detection. Others have IVS(Intelligent Video Surveillance) - Specifically Tripwire, Intrusion, Line Cross, Abandoned Object Detection, Missing Object Detection. There are others too out there like facial detection...not sure how that works?.

2 questions.
If I get a camera WITH IVS:
Can I use those those features on the camera with BI or do they only work with a mfg compatible NVR?


If I get a camera WITHOUT IVS:
Does BI have the ability to do\mimic IVS type detection?


I saw motion detection settings in BI that say things like "A -> B" and such but have no idea what that means or how to use it yet until I research further, but I found no specific reference to anything like the IVS functionality yet.

(I am new to BI, literally just installed the paid version this weekend but i have no cameras yet other than a cheap-o Foscam to play with. I started going through the BI options and a little bit of the help section, so I apologize if my answer is buried in the help guide and I just have not run across it yet.)



Thanks!

 

[fenderman]

Most of those detection features are useless, however, blue iris can accept onvif camera triggers.
Blue iris can also do multi zone crossing...see the help file that explains it all.

 

[nayr]

I do not believe the IVS events are announced via ONVIF, so dont expect those features to work with BluIris.. I've been looking for a way to monitor those events pragmatically and been unsuccessful so far.

 

[wcrowder]

Hi,
I'm looking at a couple of cameras...some have just basic motion detection. Others have IVS(Intelligent Video Surveillance) - Specifically Tripwire, Intrusion, Line Cross, Abandoned Object Detection, Missing Object Detection. There are others too out there like facial detection...not sure how that works?.

2 questions.
If I get a camera WITH IVS:
Can I use those those features on the camera with BI or do they only work with a mfg compatible NVR?

Camera features are useless unless you are using a proprietary system. One year later the proprietary system is not supported and you are screwed... Your CMS needs to handle this, not the camera, until Onvif actually is supported across the board, right now that is not the case.

 

[nbstl68]

Thanks

Why do you think IVS features are useless?
I'm not sure about the other options but I was thinking at least the line cross\trip wire, ( I think they are the same thing?) would be useful for eliminating a lot of false triggers. Be able to ignore bugs, rain, leaves blowing and trees moving and light changes setting of the motion sensor and say just focus on a line on the driveway or near the front door being crossed to trigger the alert or recording.

I have no experience with IVS though. Do you think they just do not really work as expected?

 

[nayr]

Linecross/Tripwire (samething) work fine for me.. I use it to trigger my PTZ's to get a 2nd angle and turn on a strobe light.. I got a false alarm once from a moth but then I adjusted the minimum/maximum sizes to what a human sized object should appear within and its been pretty solid since... but both cameras im using it on are now relying on external IR so bugs are not really much of a problem anymore for that reason.

But I am using a Dahua NVR w/IVS Enabled.. not blueiris.

 

[wcrowder]

Linecross/Tripwire (samething) work fine for me.. I use it to trigger my PTZ's to get a 2nd angle and turn on a strobe light.. I got a false alarm once from a moth but then I adjusted the minimum/maximum sizes to what a human sized object should appear within and its been pretty solid since... but both cameras im using it on are now relying on external IR so bugs are not really much of a problem anymore for that reason.

But I am using a Dahua NVR w/IVS Enabled.. not blueiris.

Yes, but you are stuck using Dahua cameras and Dahua NVR's... Dahua does not fully support Onvif... IVS is proprietary. Large systems need to last at least 3 years... Next year you will have to replace your system because Dahua won't support it any more...

 

[nbstl68]

So it sounds like a camera's IVS features may only work if using the same mfg's NVR with the same IVS features embedded in the NVR too?

I have shot BI support an email just for clarification before I make a cam purchase. No point buying one with those features if they do not pass through the alerts and recordings.
I'll post if they respond.

Thanks for the input.

 

[nayr]

Dahua has one of the best ONVIF implementations of any of the hardware recorders, Ive got non-dahua cameras loaded up just fine.

IVS is proprietary, primarily because ONVIF has no provisions for such analytics.. just basic motion detection is outlined in the specifications.

 

[nayr]

Can BI detect Alarm input events? If you get a IVS camera with an alarm input and an alarm output you can hook them together and have IVS trigger the output, which will trigger the input which I can detect via ONVIF.

you loose the alarm IO, but you can use IVS that way w/3rd party apps I believe..

 

[wcrowder]

So it sounds like a camera's IVS features may only work if using the same mfg's NVR with the same IVS features embedded in the NVR too?

I have shot BI support an email just for clarification before I make a cam purchase. No point buying one with those features if they do not pass through the alerts and recordings.
I'll post if they respond.

Thanks for the input.

This is true, until Onvif becomes the standard.

 

[wcrowder]

Can BI detect Alarm input events? If you get a IVS camera with an alarm input and an alarm output you can hook them together and have IVS trigger the output, which will trigger the input which I can detect via ONVIF.

you loose the alarm IO, but you can use IVS that way w/3rd party apps I believe..

OnvifS supports Alarm inputs, but Dahua does not support it. Onvif only in there proprietary events they do... Does Dahua support Multicast without it being a propitiatory implementation?

 

[fenderman]

Thanks

Why do you think IVS features are useless?
I'm not sure about the other options but I was thinking at least the line cross\trip wire, ( I think they are the same thing?) would be useful for eliminating a lot of false triggers. Be able to ignore bugs, rain, leaves blowing and trees moving and light changes setting of the motion sensor and say just focus on a line on the driveway or near the front door being crossed to trigger the alert or recording.

I have no experience with IVS though. Do you think they just do not really work as expected?

Most of them dont work properly and in the case of hikvision (probably dahua as well) they only support one line, whereas in blue iris you can set zone crossing with much more control. You can further have different setting for day and night relative to sunrise/sunset.

 

[nayr]

I tested multicast w/VLC and it worked fine.. dont know what you'd expect to be pripotary about it.. its just RTSP over Multicast, nothing special.

@fenderman, my dahuas not only support multiple lines they support separate actions and schedules for each individual line.

IVS is way better than the built in motion detection, but if your using BlueIris you probably dont need them like me.. Regular motion is hardly useful.

 

[fenderman]

I tested multicast w/VLC and it worked fine.. dont know what you'd expect to be pripotary about it

@fendrman, my dahuas not only support multiple lines they support separate actions and schedules for each individual line.

IVS is way better than the built in motion detection, but if your using BlueIris you probably dont need them like me.. Regular motion is hardly useful.

Thats good to know about dahua....though the scheduling is useless for most without a script/know how to adjust to changing sunrise sunset..

 

[nayr]

if you require sunrise sunset calculations yeah, but for example on my latest camera.. Ive got a couple lines that are active from midnight to 5am and turn on the strobe light automatically.. then I have another line that tells my front door PTZ to zoom out to wide angle 24/7.

Static Schedules for Events really dont need sunrise/sunset calculations like you need with profile changing.. at least I cant think how it'd be very useful to have it.. I wake up and go to work every day at the same time regardless of the sun's position..

 

[fenderman]

if you require sunrise sunset calculations yeah, but for example on my latest camera.. Ive got a couple lines that are active from midnight to 5am and turn on the strobe light automatically.. then I have another line that tells my front door PTZ to zoom out to wide angle 24/7.

Static Schedules for Events really dont need sunrise/sunset calculations like you need with profile changing.. at least I cant think how it'd be very useful to have it.. I wake up and go to work every day at the same time regardless of the sun's position..

its helpful if you want to change sensitivity or zones/location of wire for day image vs night...

 

[nayr]

the only sensitivity adjustments are object minimum size and maximum size, and depending on lens size and resolution you set em to human sized and leave em alone.

I cant imagine why you'd want to move a line at exactly sunrise/sunset.. changing image settings yeah sure, but what does that give you for events? Here in a month I'll be getting off work in the dark, ppl will still be walking there dogs in the dark, and mail will be arriving in the dark.. right now thats all in the day and from here til then I wont need to change anything at all.. but im not going to want a bunch of alarms going off in a month because the sun changed while everyone's schedules remained the same.

Seems pointless, if I was the developer and you approached me with this feature request I'd be demanding a better use story than that.

I do alot of events off sunrise/sunset, but they are all related to lighting conditions.. my PTZ zooms in on my car every night @ the exact same time, because I have yet to see anyone try door handles before midnight so it does it @ 10pm.. if I do it at sunset then I miss alot of normal evening activity at the wider angle in the winter months. (ie someone not cleaning up after their dog)

 

[fenderman]

the only sensitivity adjustments are object minimum size and maximum size, and depending on lens size and resolution you set em to human sized and leave em alone.

I cant imagine why you'd want to move a line at exactly sunrise/sunset.. changing image settings yeah sure, but what does that give you for events? Here in a month I'll be getting off work in the dark, ppl will still be walking there dogs in the dark, and mail will be arriving in the dark.. right now thats all in the day and from here til then I wont need to change anything at all.. but im not going to want a bunch of alarms going off in a month because the sun changed while everyone's schedules remained the same.

Seems pointless, if I was the developer and you approached me with this feature request I'd be demanding a better use story than that.

I do alot of events off sunrise/sunset, but they are all related to lighting conditions.. my PTZ zooms in on my car every night @ the exact same time, because I have yet to see anyone try door handles before midnight so it does it @ 10pm.. if I do it at sunset then I miss alot of normal evening activity at the wider angle in the winter months. (ie someone not cleaning up after their dog)

Because cameras pixel sensitivity changes from night to day....this allows you to fine tune the detection and not miss valid events. This is even more important for other motion events....

 

[nayr]

shrug, the built in object detection seems just as good in the day and at night.. but I am well lit.. dont appear to be an issue, even when my trailer camera was basically total dark it would detect human beings over there reliably.. just really didnt identify much.

mebe if I was trying to detect things further out with wider angle cameras? but I can totally see setups where IVS features wont work, facial detection seems to only be reliable indoors with static lighting and really good angles.. its not as good as what most smartphones can do for face detection thats for sure.. I think only Tripwire and Intrusion are the only usefull ones and the rest are mostly gimmicks unless your willing to bend to its demands to accomplish it.