Comparing Cameras

[Grierts]

Hey I am trying to decide which cameras would be the best from this lineup.
How would you rank these cameras, from best to worst. I have seen some of the reviews.

I ranked them as follows based on a criteria of Price/Sensor/Smart AI/Variable Focus/Microphone/Max aperature/Minumum Illumination.

Rank

Price

Mexapixels

Sensor

Encoding

Smart AI

Vari ?

MIC

RAM/ROM

Max. Aperture

Digital Zoom

Minimum Illumination

Score

1​

IPC-T5442T-ZE

$195​

4MP (2688 × 1520) / 2MP(1920 × 1080) @60 fps

1/1.8" CMOS

H.265 codec

IVS (Perimeter Protection) / Face Detection / People Counting /Intelligent Search

YES

YES

1GB / 128 MB

F1.8

2.7 mm-12 mm

0.003Lux@F1.8

7​

2​

IPC-T3241T-ZAS

$140​

2MP (1920 × 1080)@30 fps

1/2.8” CMOS

H.265 codec

Intrusion, tripwire

YES

YES

128 MB / 256 MB

F1.5

2.7 mm–13.5 mm

0.002 Lux @ F1.5

5​

3​

IPC-T2231T-ZS

$125​

2MP (1920 × 1080)@25/30 fps

1/2.8” CMOS

H.265 codec

Intrusion, tripwire

YES

NO

128/128 MB

F1.5

2.7 mm–13.5 mm

0.002 Lux@F1.5

5​

4​

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE (Supports POE, so this is unnecessary for me

$129​

4Megapixel 2688 × 1520 25/30 fps

1/1.8” CMOS

H.265 codec

Face Detection, Perimeter Protection, People Counting

NO

YES

512 MB/128 MB

F1.6

0.002 Lux@F1.6

5​

5​

IPC-HDW5442TM-AS

$137​

4MP (2688 × 1520) / 2MP(1920 × 1080) @50/60 fps

1/1.8” CMOS

H.265 codec

Event Trigger / Object Abandoned/Missing / Heat Map

NO

YES

512 MB/128 MB

F1.6

0.002 Lux@F1.6

4​

6​

IPC-HDW5231R-ZE

$147​

2Megapixel 1920x1080 50/60fps

1/2.8” CMOS

H.265 codec

Tripwire, Intrusion, Object Abandoned/Missing / Face Detection

YES

YES

256MB/32MB

F1.6

16x / 2.7mm ~13.5mm motorized lens

0.006Lux/F1.6

3.5​

How would you rank these cameras ?


Is the cheapest yet best the IPC-T3241T-ZAS ? (it came 2nd place because it has both vari zoom and microphone)

(I already know the IPC-T5442T-ZE is the current king of the castle, but at $195 that price is kinda steep. I will need a 6-8 camera setup. )

I will be running it with a BI system and cisco poe server.

The score system is based on how many columns a particular camera won. see attached image

Is there a camera not listed that you think would beat out anything listed above.

 

[Grierts]

Any opinions on the
IPC-T5442TM-AS vs IPC-T3241T-ZAS ??

 

[wittaj]

Fix your table on the zoom - that is an optical zoom not a digital zoom. Optical Zoom is what gets us the clear pictures at distance. Digital zoom is a pixelated mess

Nothing wrong with the 2MP variety. I have several of that one and they are great. They are limited in that they do not have AI for human or vehicle detection, so if you do not need that, then that is a decent camera with the correct MP to sensor ratio. You could always add a 3rd party AI into the equation with Blue Iris, but most have found the AI within the camera to be superior.

Depending on your install locations, maybe you get a few of the 5442-ZE. For example, in a typical backyard, IVS will be sufficient to size it to knock out false alarms but get humans. In a typical front yard if all you care about is human triggers and not all the vehicles driving past, that would be harder to set up IVS (but can be done based on the field of view), then maybe an AI camera makes sense.

Also, if you plan to purchase them all at the same time, then DM @EMPIRETECANDY and he can usually give you a discount for purchasing several cameras at once.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I couldn't rank the cameras without knowing the priorities. If the best low-light vision is top priority then all of the 5442 series go to the top of the list. Same thing for the other features. When I started a few years ago, deploying a minimum number of cameras was a top priority and I went with lower cost, fixed focus models. I've since replaced about half of them to get better low light sensitivity, varifocal, and microphone in the places where I thought I needed it. I still use a few of the lower end models where they do what I need them to do. When starting out, I got one each of a couple different models to get familiar with them, instead of jumping in all at once.

 

[joemom]

Do you need to zoom in on something? are you planning to do a alpr / plate reader ?

 

[Grierts]

Do you need to zoom in on something? are you planning to do a alpr / plate reader ?

No I was not planning on getting a plate reader.

Just something to monitor my surrounding area.

 

[Grierts]

I couldn't rank the cameras without knowing the priorities. If the best low-light vision is top priority then all of the 5442 series go to the top of the list. Same thing for the other features. When I started a few years ago, deploying a minimum number of cameras was a top priority and I went with lower cost, fixed focus models. I've since replaced about half of them to get better low light sensitivity, varifocal, and microphone in the places where I thought I needed it. I still use a few of the lower end models where they do what I need them to do. When starting out, I got one each of a couple different models to get familiar with them, instead of jumping in all at once.

How important is Vari-focus vs fixed lens ?

Andy told me fixed lens has a better picture

( IPC-T5442TM-AS VS IPC-T5442T-ZE )

@wittaj & @tigerwillow1

i think nighttime performance is most important for me.

 

[RandomBit]

following... looking at this myself. Thanks for putting together a fresh thread.

 

[wittaj]

Varifocal gives you the ability to dial it in to the area you are trying to cover. Unless you know for a fact that the fixed cam will service the area you are intended to cover (either as an overview camera or within the DORI limits for identification, the varifocal is the way to go. One camera is not the be all, see all. Each camera has to be selected for the area you want to provide coverage for.

Take a look at this chart to help explain. To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is a popular camera choice, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera. Realistically, it is more like 10 feet or less.

Personally I have found that IDENTIFY is a lot smaller number than these charts say, but I am a fan of zoom and details! On the flip side, I have found that for my neighbors that I recognize their shape, walk, gait, etc. can be recognized much further than the tables say.

Further, each one of these fixed cams are focused for what each manufacturer deems the correct distance with which to use the camera....which means further out it will be blurry and why you cannot digital zoom an 8MP camera and get details farther out. A 2MP varifocal optically zoomed to that area 55 feet away will blow away an 8MP 3.6mm fixed lens installed in the same location and trying to digitally zoom in to the same area 55 feet away.

This reason alone is reason why people should recognize that a fixed lens isn't the see all, be all camera! But neither is a varifocal camera because that is optically focused for the target area and the target area for IDENTIFICATION purposes isn't a large footage number like people think it is.

Each fixed lens camera has a "focus distance" that is set for which means that further away will be blurry and close up will be blurry. And they differ based on the optics and sensors in them. Personally I have found the Dahua to be better for a larger distance range than the Hikvision, but someone else may feel opposite. But if you have the wrong lens in the wrong place, that is when you experience less than optimal results.

And what you will find then is at night, unless you have A TON of light, these distances further out will be cut back tremendously. Maybe in the day you can recognize 55 feet out, but it may cut back to 20 feet at night. We have to run faster shutters to eliminate blur and the faster the shutter, the more light needed.

Personally, I have found that unless you have a ton of light in the area you are trying to cover, you will be running infrared and at that point, the 2MP is probably the better choice especially if trying to save a few bucks. I bought a 5442 hoping based on all the great reviews on it that I could run it in color zoomed in to the public sidewalk 50 feet away and even with 33,000 lumen radiating off my house that wasn't enough to run it in color.

 

[wittaj]

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the 5442 camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

 

[Grierts]

Varifocal gives you the ability to dial it in to the area you are trying to cover. Unless you know for a fact that the fixed cam will service the area you are intended to cover (either as an overview camera or within the DORI limits for identification, the varifocal is the way to go. One camera is not the be all, see all. Each camera has to be selected for the area you want to provide coverage for.

Take a look at this chart to help explain. To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is a popular camera choice, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera. Realistically, it is more like 10 feet or less.

Personally I have found that IDENTIFY is a lot smaller number than these charts say, but I am a fan of zoom and details! On the flip side, I have found that for my neighbors that I recognize their shape, walk, gait, etc. can be recognized much further than the tables say.

Further, each one of these fixed cams are focused for what each manufacturer deems the correct distance with which to use the camera....which means further out it will be blurry and why you cannot digital zoom an 8MP camera and get details farther out. A 2MP varifocal optically zoomed to that area 55 feet away will blow away an 8MP 3.6mm fixed lens installed in the same location and trying to digitally zoom in to the same area 55 feet away.

This reason alone is reason why people should recognize that a fixed lens isn't the see all, be all camera! But neither is a varifocal camera because that is optically focused for the target area and the target area for IDENTIFICATION purposes isn't a large footage number like people think it is.

Each fixed lens camera has a "focus distance" that is set for which means that further away will be blurry and close up will be blurry. And they differ based on the optics and sensors in them. Personally I have found the Dahua to be better for a larger distance range than the Hikvision, but someone else may feel opposite. But if you have the wrong lens in the wrong place, that is when you experience less than optimal results.

And what you will find then is at night, unless you have A TON of light, these distances further out will be cut back tremendously. Maybe in the day you can recognize 55 feet out, but it may cut back to 20 feet at night. We have to run faster shutters to eliminate blur and the faster the shutter, the more light needed.

Personally, I have found that unless you have a ton of light in the area you are trying to cover, you will be running infrared and at that point, the 2MP is probably the better choice especially if trying to save a few bucks. I bought a 5442 hoping based on all the great reviews on it that I could run it in color zoomed in to the public sidewalk 50 feet away and even with 33,000 lumen radiating off my house that wasn't enough to run it in color.

I get you so right now I am thinking a mixture of IPC-HDW5442TM-AS and ( IPC-T3241T-ZAS or IPC-T2231T-ZS)

So my next question is which do you think is a better vari-focus camera to pair with the IPC-HDW5442TM-AS ?

IPC-T3241T-ZAS or IPC-T2231T-ZS)

I will probably have 4x IPC-HDW5442TM-AS and x4 vari focused lenses.

 

[wittaj]

The two varifocals are basically the same, except the ZAS has audio. So if you do not need audio, go with the ZS, but the audio is a nice feature and not that much more.

 

[samplenhold]

Like @tigerwillow1 stated, without knowing the priorities, one can't rate each against the other. Trying to assign a 'score' based on the options each cam has is really meaningless.

As @wittaj stated, the advertised capabilities from the vendor are not always something attainable. So take them with a grain of salt.

If you are looking for color at night you will need light. In general lots of light. @wittaj states that his 33,000 lumens is not enough in his installation. But my driveway has way less than that and I do just fine in color at night with a T5442 in 6mm. The location of the lighting with respect to the cam and the subject is very important.

I totally believe in fit-for-purpose cam selection. The only correct answer to the question 'which cam is better' is 'it depends'. It depends on the task assigned to the cam. For any view one needs to design a set of criteria that you want to achieve for that view. THEN find a cam that can satisfy those criteria, as best you can. You will find everything is a trade off. However, you probably can get everything you want if you are willing to spend the right amount of money.

It would be prudent to buy just ONE GOOD VARIFOCAL cam and use it on a test rig as defined in the cliff notes to test your different views. Gather the data. Use that data to then decide what cams to get in the other places.

Don't buy all of your cams at once. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

[wittaj]

Yep, I am jealous of the street light that @samplenhold and so many others have. He gets incredible color night shots that reminds me of those infomercials for Weight Watchers LOL (results are not typical and your results may vary). I mean come on, he has a stop sign and gets a lot of plates in color at night. Almost unheard of!

You can learn a lot by viewing the photos and videos people have posted here and trying to relate it to your location best you can to determine its performance at night.

 

[Grierts]

@samplenhold @wittaj @tigerwillow1

This is more than likely my future house. Can I get your opinion on camera placement. Believe 8 cameras should suffice. Maybe 6. (6 cameras would be a lot cheaper)

I am going to do a mixture of IPC-HDW5442TM-AS & IPC-T3241T-ZAS

Where would you place these cameras ?

Whats your opinion on a mixture of IPC-HDW5442TM-AS & IPC-T3241T-ZAS cameras ? With nighttime recording being most important

Asan House - Google Drive

drive.google.com

See video for a full walkthrough in google docs.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I have to take a pass at the camera placement due to no experience. All of mine are mounted on trees, fences, or outbuildings. I have a few of them looking at the house but none on the house looking out.

 

[Wildcat_1]

@samplenhold @wittaj @tigerwillow1

This is more than likely my future house. Can I get your opinion on camera placement. Believe 8 cameras should suffice. Maybe 6. (6 cameras would be a lot cheaper)

I am going to do a mixture of IPC-HDW5442TM-AS & IPC-T3241T-ZAS

Where would you place these cameras ?

Whats your opinion on a mixture of IPC-HDW5442TM-AS & IPC-T3241T-ZAS cameras ? With nighttime recording being most important

Asan House - Google Drive

drive.google.com

See video for a full walkthrough in google docs.

@Grierts see my replies to your DM's as well since I mentioned about the 6 min, ideally 8 cams there to you the other day along with recommendations on models. A lot will depend on what your final lighting, FOV (including the critical distance and height to target), desired targets (human, vehicle) etc. Another key is to build in redundancy/overlap of your cams as I mentioned to ensure you always get a usable image regardless. You can mix and match cams as your budget allows but the 5442 series represents a fantastic line of cams at a great price that would work well for you here. Vari is the way to go to start as I mentioned there and @samplenhold stated here too. These by themselves could end up being your choice for deployment around your house period, however with 1 and you being new to the cams it does allow you to move the camera around the house (to the placement locations), dial in a level of zoom and test before committing to a) more of the same cam and benefit from vari or b) lets you decide which fixed lens you need to cover an area.

Also don't forget that aesthetics plays a part too, some people prefer more subtle approach therefore choose turrets while others will go with the bullet cam variants and PTZ's etc.

Lastly don't forget the 'special' requirements that you may or may not have such as LPR (therefore 5241-Z12 would be ideal) or PTZ that you call to a specific location/present using your fixed and vari cams as spotters. Highly effective and in a triangulated or quad cam setup (as I've mentioned I've setup in other threads before) can really nail down securing a location, should it be needed.

Remember that at the end of the day this is an investment in the security of your property and you can start as small or large an investment as you want or have budget to cover. Spec out the system or AI NVR to allow you to grow and add the cams (with enough headroom for more than you are currently thinking, i.e. 16 channel) and you'll have a solution that can adapt as your needs change.

.....and one last thing, don't hold back on lighting. While cams have come on a long way in terms of improvement, lighting is your friend both in terms of visual deterrence and in assisting any camera perform at its best

HTH, will reply to your new DM as well

 

[sebastiantombs]

My two cents on the 2231 versus the 3241. I several of both models and a 5231. To my eyes, the 3241 is better than both the 5231 and 2231. For the few dollars difference between the 2231 and the 3241 I think the 3241 is a better camera. I've found it much easier to fine tune for each location than the 2231, plus it has a microphone.

That said, none of them are bad cameras at all. After using them I still like the 3241 over the other two.

 

[Grierts]

My two cents on the 2231 versus the 3241. I several of both models and a 5231. To my eyes, the 3241 is better than both the 5231 and 2231. For the few dollars difference between the 2231 and the 3241 I think the 3241 is a better camera. I've found it much easier to fine tune for each location than the 2231, plus it has a microphone.

That said, none of them are bad cameras at all. After using them I still like the 3241 over the other two.

That is great to know.

I am thinking about doing a mixture of 5442 and 3241 ? What do you think about that ?

Either 3 of each or 4 of each.

So i have some vari focus cams and some fixed lens

 

[sebastiantombs]

I also currently have a few, three, 5442s. Two are fixed focus turrets and one is the varifocal bullet. I like them even more than the 3241 in most cases. The 5442 is even better in low light, both color and B&W. Again, it all comes down to what you're trying to cover and how big your budget is. You really can't go wrong with either one. I will say that my "default" of 3.6mm for close in lenses has changed to 6mm but I tend to install more than one camera to cover each area so I still get the overviews albeit through multiple cameras.