Hardware or Software NVR?

[terahz]

Greetings.

First: thank you all for the great info here.

TL;DR:
I want to have a reliable motion detection and playback of events on about 6 (for now) dahua cameras. Do I setup BI or buy a NVR5216-4KS2? Ideally I want the data stored or at least backed up on my NAS.


Long Story:
I have a 3x HDW5231R-Z , 2x HDW4431C-A and one HDBW4231F-AS. I've configured the first 5 to record on NAS with their built in motion detection and they seem to do a decent job (with one exception). My main issue right now is that I can't play the events when they happen in any practical manner. SmartPSS is great for live viewing but just plain doesn't work for nas based playback. Smart Player can play an individual time/date .dav file directory but all my events are split up into multiple files and the Smart Player devs have not discovered sorting yet so I can't really play an event smoothly...

In addition, there seems to be no way to set pre-record times on motion detection, and the default delay of 10 seconds misses most of the actual event.

I have a decent VM setup but I know Quick Sync Video doesn't work that way so I'll need to build another system if I want to go with Blue Iris. I also absolutely hate the idea of having a windows box at home...

The NVR5216-4KS2 sounds like a great option on paper, but I'm worried that it will rely on the camera motion detection and will have the same 10 second delay recording. Also it will probably insist on writing on its local disks and it will be a pain (manual work) to get the events backed up on my NAS.

So, what do I do? At the end of the day I just want to be able to get good motion detection with useable interface to it.

 

[looney2ns]

I second BI. Don't build, lots cheaper to buy used or refurbished.

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

 

[terahz]

I guess BI it is. I'll give it a try first on a VM with the demo version, just to make sure it functions on a couple of cameras.

@looney2ns yeah, when I said 'build' I was referring to the entire process of buying, possibly installing new windows, patching, configuring etc. I will likely get a used box if the demo proves BI is really where it's at.

 

[terahz]

Awesome, thanks @drunkpenguin. I'm kind of opposite to you on lin vs win (last win I used was XP) but I'm willing to try it, because I have a feeling hardware based NVR will just be more of the same issues.
To that, what will be my best bet for live viewing via Blue Iris on Linux, Mac (wife) and android? Will I just have to stick to SmartPSS?

 

[terahz]

Sounds like that will work. BI project this weekend it is.

Damn, I posted in the NVR forum, hoping someone will at least entertain the idea of the hardware NVR (so I don't have to deal with windows ), but I guess I get what I ask for

 

[terahz]

Alrigh, I got a HP ProDesk SFF 600 G2 with an i5 6500 and 8 gigs of ram off of ebay for 300 bucks. I'll put in a small drive in it and call it a day. I'll report back once I have everything setup to either confirm or not if the recommendation was good

 

[terahz]

Well, 7 hours later, I have a win 10 pro installed on the thing, tightvnc server for remote admin and BI with 3 cameras at 1080@20fps@4kbps for now.

Initial impressions: Oh My God Is This Thing Ugly! I'm sorry, I just had to say it. The Web UI is even worse. The UI2 interface is just a little better. No excuses these days to not have a modern UI and HTML5 video web streams. ActiveX video stream?! 1996 called and want their tech back. Anyway.

Functionally, so far it is pretty much exactly what I wanted. As configured with the 3 cameras, it only uses 4% cpu and about 18% gpu. Store folder configured to be on my NAS - no problems there either. Motion Detection works great. Was worried about the bvr format for a bit, but saw the option for direct mp4 so I'm happy now. I can live with no playback during record, or whatever it is.

Issue that I need to address:
- Recorded videos are very choppy/low fps. Not sure why, but they seem to be doing something like 5 fps. My cameras themselves record very nice fluid videos (when the motion detection works). I'll be investigating that next.
- $10 for mobile app... seriously? I'd be all over the app if it wasn't the same ugly UI design. I guess I'll be sticking to gDMSS Lite for mobile and SmartPSS for desktop for live view. So I need to figure out how to review motion events on my phone.

So it sounds like I'll be moving to the BI subforum at this point.

Cheers!

 

[fenderman]

Well, 7 hours later, I have a win 10 pro installed on the thing, tightvnc server for remote admin and BI with 3 cameras at 1080@20fps@4kbps for now.

Initial impressions: Oh My God Is This Thing Ugly! I'm sorry, I just had to say it. The Web UI is even worse. The UI2 interface is just a little better. No excuses these days to not have a modern UI and HTML5 video web streams. ActiveX video stream?! 1996 called and want their tech back. Anyway.

Functionally, so far it is pretty much exactly what I wanted. As configured with the 3 cameras, it only uses 4% cpu and about 18% gpu. Store folder configured to be on my NAS - no problems there either. Motion Detection works great. Was worried about the bvr format for a bit, but saw the option for direct mp4 so I'm happy now. I can live with no playback during record, or whatever it is.

Issue that I need to address:
- Recorded videos are very choppy/low fps. Not sure why, but they seem to be doing something like 5 fps. My cameras themselves record very nice fluid videos (when the motion detection works). I'll be investigating that next.
- $10 for mobile app... seriously? I'd be all over the app if it wasn't the same ugly UI design. I guess I'll be sticking to gDMSS Lite for mobile and SmartPSS for desktop for live view. So I need to figure out how to review motion events on my phone.

So it sounds like I'll be moving to the BI subforum at this point.

Cheers!

Want pretty? I can recommend lots of options are 50 - 150 per camera..let me know..you dont have to look at the ui except when you setup, its fine...much better than any NVR.
The mobile app is one of the best parts of blue iris...stop being cheap.
BVR format is more efficient...there is no point to use mp4, you can export at a later time...
as far as your recording issues, could be improper settings...post your record tab..are you still running the demo?
also, if it took you 7 hours to install windows and a few programs, youll need help with this..
Got a problem with activex? What do you think hikvision/dahua cameras/nvr's require?
You dont need to use the activex component, there are other options...

 

[terahz]

Mr Fenderman, no need to be defensive. I'm just expressing my opinion.

Want pretty? I can recommend lots of options are 50 - 150 per camera..let me know..you dont have to look at the ui except when you setup, its fine...much better than any NVR.

I don't see why it needs to cost XXX per camera to look nice. Plenty of advanced, inexpensive software that also has very good UX. I don't expect it to make a difference but I do feel like I can express my opinion that $60 piece of software to be a bit more modern looking. Maybe what I'm seeing is considered modern in the NVR world, but to me it doesn't look like it. NVR UIs are not really a tall bar to pass.

The mobile app is one of the best parts of blue iris...stop being cheap.

I've just spent about $450 to have Blue Iris. I have no idea why you're calling me cheap. As far as the app goes, in the last month and a half, exactly 5 people are completely happy with the app for Android (out of about 30). Not really good reviews.

BVR format is more efficient...there is no point to use mp4, you can export at a later time...

The point to using MP4 is that I don't need BI to play it.

also, if it took you 7 hours to install windows and a few programs, youll need help with this..

Yes, it did take me 7 hours to install everything, largely because this is the first Windows I'm dealing with since windows 95 and it takes a while to figure out what needs to run as a service, what needs an account to access SMB shares, what needs a defender firewall rule to work, how to enable RDP, realize it doesn't play way with BI, which vnc server straight doesn't work, where to enable hardware acceleration on the cameras, where to configure motion detection... I'm sure it's second nature to you, but for someone doing this for a first time it's not.

Got a problem with activex? What do you think hikvision/dahua cameras/nvr's require?
You dont need to use the activex component, there are other options...

I do have a problem with ActiveX. I went with Blue Iris because it is presented as the better product.

as far as your recording issues, could be improper settings...post your record tab..are you still running the demo?

They are very likely improper settings. I have no doubt about it. I just haven't learned yet what all the BI options do. I never ran the demo as it doesn't have the features I want to try. Will be happy to share my settings when I get home tonight.

Cheers

P.S. I understand this is probably your forum and you can do whatever you want, but it helps nobody to treat your new members this way. No need to call me cheap and tell me I'll need help.

 

[fenderman]

Mr Fenderman, no need to be defensive. I'm just expressing my opinion.


I don't see why it needs to cost XXX per camera to look nice. Plenty of advanced, inexpensive software that also has very good UX. I don't expect it to make a difference but I do feel like I can express my opinion that $60 piece of software to be a bit more modern looking. Maybe what I'm seeing is considered modern in the NVR world, but to me it doesn't look like it. NVR UIs are not really a tall bar to pass.


I've just spent about $450 to have Blue Iris. I have no idea why you're calling me cheap. As far as the app goes, in the last month and a half, exactly 5 people are completely happy with the app for Android (out of about 30). Not really good reviews.


The point to using MP4 is that I don't need BI to play it.


Yes, it did take me 7 hours to install everything, largely because this is the first Windows I'm dealing with since windows 95 and it takes a while to figure out what needs to run as a service, what needs an account to access SMB shares, what needs a defender firewall rule to work, how to enable RDP, realize it doesn't play way with BI, which vnc server straight doesn't work, where to enable hardware acceleration on the cameras, where to configure motion detection... I'm sure it's second nature to you, but for someone doing this for a first time it's not.


I do have a problem with ActiveX. I went with Blue Iris because it is presented as the better product.


They are very likely improper settings. I have no doubt about it. I just haven't learned yet what all the BI options do. I never ran the demo as it doesn't have the features I want to try. Will be happy to share my settings when I get home tonight.

Cheers

P.S. I understand this is probably your forum and you can do whatever you want, but it helps nobody to treat your new members this way. No need to call me cheap and tell me I'll need help.

I didnt say it NEEDS to...I said thats what you will have to pay if you want it and you suffer from ocd that demands it....Remember that blue iris is developed by ONE person...I would rather have him updating FEATURES than making things look pretty for you...
You did not spend 460 on blue iris...you spent it on a pc, you could run any vms you want on that pc...you are cheap by shooting yourself in the foot and not buying the 10 dollar app...it allows for lots of functions and features simply not available with others. There are many threads where is discuss thouse.
Playing mp4 outside of BI is silly...that is the entire point of the alerts and timeline to make things easy to playback...you will not be able to play back critical motion events as they are happening because the file is still being written to.
Its a much better product than a standlone NVR...i think you should go buy one, so that you can see for yourself, youll stop complaining immediately....

 

[looney2ns]

Kids these days.
Who gives a flip what it looks like, It works.
The BI Android app runs circles around gDMSS.
As @fenderman said, it's the best part of BI.
Optimizing Blue Iris's CPU Usage | IP Cam Talk

 

[terahz]

My words:
"Functionally, so far it is pretty much exactly what I wanted."
I don't see why everyone is trying to convince me it's better than NVRs. I'm already with you on that.

I didnt say it NEEDS to...I said thats what you will have to pay if you want it and you suffer from ocd that demands it....Remember that blue iris is developed by ONE person...I would rather have him updating FEATURES than making things look pretty for you...
You did not spend 460 on blue iris...you spent it on a pc, you could run any vms you want on that pc...you are cheap by shooting yourself in the foot and not buying the 10 dollar app...it allows for lots of functions and features simply not available with others. There are many threads where is discuss thouse.
Playing mp4 outside of BI is silly...that is the entire point of the alerts and timeline to make things easy to playback...you will not be able to play back critical motion events as they are happening because the file is still being written to.
Its a much better product than a standlone NVR...i think you should go buy one, so that you can see for yourself, youll stop complaining immediately....

Erm, "thats what you will have to pay if you want it" kind of means it needs to cost that much me... but it could be my English. Sorry about that. I don't have OCD nor do I demand it. I simply point out that it is very dated and in my opinion ugly. Also, have no knowledge on the Blue Iris developers sorry.
I didn't spend it on Blue Iris. I did spend it to have Blue Iris, so that is my cost for Blue Iris. I have no other need for that PC. The fact that in can run other VMS or Plex or HomeAssistant or anything else has no value to me, and if I find a reason to not run Blue Iris - which I don't have at the moment - I will sell that machine.

I'll take playing mp4 over playing mjpegs since that's the only thing I can currently do without remote desktop into the machine. I suppose the mobile app will help, but for now I'll see if I can make the desktop app work with me, instead of me working for the app. I don't run a top secret facility so I don't need to know the moment motion is detected in my tomato garden or the mailman drops off a package.

I have to say I'm genuinely surprised that you are all OK with the UI/UX of the app and webserver. You remind me of my HAM club where everyone believes a scrolling banner on the club web site and changing font color animations are OK as long as you're presenting useful information...

Thank you for the recommendation. The motion detection so far seems to do exactly what I want and it doesn't require a much CPU power to do so. I can live with the UI (I'm just not going to use it). I guess I'll just not benefit from all the awesome features it has.

 

[fenderman]

My words:
"Functionally, so far it is pretty much exactly what I wanted."
I don't see why everyone is trying to convince me it's better than NVRs. I'm already with you on that.


Erm, "thats what you will have to pay if you want it" kind of means it needs to cost that much me... but it could be my English. Sorry about that. I don't have OCD nor do I demand it. I simply point out that it is very dated and in my opinion ugly. Also, have no knowledge on the Blue Iris developers sorry.
I didn't spend it on Blue Iris. I did spend it to have Blue Iris, so that is my cost for Blue Iris. I have no other need for that PC. The fact that in can run other VMS or Plex or HomeAssistant or anything else has no value to me, and if I find a reason to not run Blue Iris - which I don't have at the moment - I will sell that machine.

I'll take playing mp4 over playing mjpegs since that's the only thing I can currently do without remote desktop into the machine. I suppose the mobile app will help, but for now I'll see if I can make the desktop app work with me, instead of me working for the app. I don't run a top secret facility so I don't need to know the moment motion is detected in my tomato garden or the mailman drops off a package.

I have to say I'm genuinely surprised that you are all OK with the UI/UX of the app and webserver. You remind me of my HAM club where everyone believes a scrolling banner on the club web site and changing font color animations are OK as long as you're presenting useful information...

Thank you for the recommendation. The motion detection so far seems to do exactly what I want and it doesn't require a much CPU power to do so. I can live with the UI (I'm just not going to use it). I guess I'll just not benefit from all the awesome features it has.

Yes it WILL cost that much for you...you will have to pay for more expensive software..its does NEED to cost that, but if you want it to be all nice and pretty you need to pay for other software...why does it matter one bit if the interface is "dated"..also, when you say dated as compared to what? what else have you tried in the VMS arena?
Again you didnt spend it on blue iris, you spent on on a pc to RUN blue iris...that is a fixed cost regardless of what VMS you run..you would also spend a similar amount on a good NVR.
The interface for me is perfect...I dont think you have any experience with VMS software so you are bitching about something you dont know about...
Are there better interfaces, sure, but a HUGE cost...so the question is are you willing to pay, the answer is NO...so be glad blue iris is available and he is not bending you over the table like all the others...here is something I learned long ago, its always the cheapskates that bitch and moan, but wont go anywhere else because they dont want to pry open the rusty wallet.

 

[terahz]

Sorry guys, I'm in the wrong place. Good luck.

 

[fenderman]

Sorry guys, I'm in the wrong place. Good luck.

yes you are...good luck to you...