IP Cam Talk

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Hello from UK

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Hi all,

I stumbled across this forum looking into Arlo security cameras *waits for the collective spitting on the floor*.

I have some experience with CCTV which I'll go into shortly!

I was looking at Arlo as I need a battery operated camera to secure a dog run at the back of my home that doesn't have running power.

My experience: I'm a former burglary investigator - I've lost count of the people I've visited who's system, which they spent thousands on sometimes, was defeated by a hoodie, baseball cap or on one occasion a pizza box.

I've therefore concluded that covert (or semi covert at least) is the way to go and I was planning to buy a camo skin for my chosen camera.

I've seen advice given to newbies here, and I have some questions - I'm not here to pick fights, it's just that some of it contradicts what I experienced as in investigator trying to get criminals to court off of CCTV quality.

I can't paste in the advice because Tapatalk doesn't do multiple windows ‍♂, but it was along the lines of:

- don't use wi-fi cameras
I'm guessing because of quality issues

- don't use Nest, Arlo etc
Is there a better brand that'll do a battery operated camera? Domestic covert cameras are still in their infancy so this seems like the only option - Raspberry Pi setups are reportedly unreliable. I recognise the compromise I'll have to make on quality, but the camera is going to be right under their face (assuming they'll walk up to the run) so hopefully quality won't be too much of an issue

- don't use cloud
I've seen professional burglars take the DVR when they turn over a house, so this advice runs contrary to advice I've been giving. Can anyone enlighten me?


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SouthernYankee

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My advice post
Do not use WIFI it is unreliable and unstable and can easily be blocked.
The quality and software on the not recommended cameras is bad, and has custom hacks.
Cloud storage uses internet bandwidth, depending on where you live there are limits on usage.
The cloud storage, some time only stores what it thinks you need to see, not what really needs to be seen.
On stealing the NVR, it is possible but unlikely, I use triple storage, I use an SD card in the camera, the storage in the Blue Iris PC and a "hidden" clone drive. Yes I am paranoid.

If this is a security camera, then bury a POE ethernet cable and do it correctly and use a quality night time camera. Is doing it half assed worth your families protection. A battery powered camera will be down when it is needed (murphy law).

If the camera is for recording animals, then use a proper game camera.
 
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My advice post
Do not use WIFI it is unreliable and unstable and can easily be blocked.
The quality and software on the not recommended cameras is bad, and has custom hacks.
Cloud storage uses internet bandwidth, depending on where you live there are limits on usage.
The cloud storage, some time only stores what it thinks you need to see, not what really needs to be seen.
On stealing the NVR, it is possible but unlikely, I use triple storage, I use an SD card in the camera, the storage in the Blue Iris PC and a "hidden" clone drive. Yes I am paranoid.

If this is a security camera, then bury a POE ethernet cable and do it correctly and use a quality night time camera. Is doing it half assed worth your families protection. A battery powered camera will be down when it is needed (murphy law).

If the camera is for recording animals, then use a proper game camera.
Thanks for the reply, I hadn't considered POE.

I take it realistically by the time you've paid for the brand name a decent POE camera/DVR setup isn't much more than one of the popularised brands?

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SouthernYankee

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Over all cost is dependent on a lot of factors. You must also factor in the headache factor, the amount of time spent and reliability. Also there is the cost of crap that does not work and ends up in the garbage.

As stated in one of my posts, for the first cameras, stick with Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) . You can not go wrong purchasing a quality camera designed for low light operations.

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My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan

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mat200

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Hi all,
..
My experience: I'm a former burglary investigator - I've lost count of the people I've visited who's system, which they spent thousands on sometimes, was defeated by a hoodie, baseball cap or on one occasion a pizza box.
..
I've seen advice given to newbies here, and I have some questions - I'm not here to pick fights, it's just that some of it contradicts what I experienced as in investigator trying to get criminals to court off of CCTV quality.
..
- don't use cloud
I've seen professional burglars take the DVR when they turn over a house, so this advice runs contrary to advice I've been giving. Can anyone enlighten me?
..
Welcome @wombat57484

Good to have you here, looking forward to you sharing your experiences w/ Burglary issues.

1) Consumer cloud cameras which fail to record embedded time stamps:

In the USA - "cctv", well consumer security camera footage will be challenged by the Defense Attorney as being in-admissible in court when there is no embedded time stamps.

Not certain if this happens in BG / UK - but it is a big issue in the USA - thus many of these cloud based consumer security cameras which do not have embedded time stamps are often not valuable as evidence in court.


2) Hoodies and caps "defeat" security cameras

Yes, when security cameras are in correctly mounted they can not get a clear angle on a suspects face.

Solution - MOUNT the cameras better, typically low enough to get a good angle for a potential ID image of someone wearing a hoodie and cap.

Remember to also augment your setup with a good alarm system.


3) Pizza boxes "defeat: security cameras.

Solution: MORE cameras, covering various angles so that no matter which way a suspect turns - you have a good chance of an ID image.

Also - capture an image of any potential suspect while they are on the sidewalk before they reach your front door.


4) Hidden vs cameras in the clear:

No reason why you can't have both.


5) Thieves steal on-prem DVRs.

Solution - have a decoy DVR / NVR.. hide and secure the real one, OR have 2 redundant DVR / NVRs.
Also have an alarm system which will trigger so any thieves can not linger too long without a response.

Also, you can augment with a cloud connected product or have your on-prem system send a snap shot to email or the like.


6) Professional burglars can also easily start interrupting wifi signals.. not hard to do, so that's another reason to avoid wifi.

Also they may wear masks - which is why you want to see if you can get details of their clothing, shoes, and even eye color ( face level cameras are great! ), as well as details of any car they may have used.
 
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