Help choosing cameras and system from a recent burglary victim

[catchthatguy]

Hi, I was a victim of a recent burlary and have decied to install a system. I will probably need to hire professional to install it but I want to do enough research on my own to know what I should ask for. Here is the sitaution I try to solve

1) I need a camera that has the ability to see a license plate that may be 30-50 ft away from where the camera is at night. (If I had that, police would have a lead right now)
2) Other cameras, I just need to have very good night vision to see the face (if someone approaches my house)
3) I am torn between local storage vs. cloud. Is there a solution where there could be both?
4) I need to be able to turn on / off motion alerts that get sent to my phone. Basically I only want to turn that on in the evening or when we are away or else the # of alerts will be out of control as the street I am on has decent traffic
5) wireless will be great if there is one with very reliable connection but I am always skeptical of wifi connection reliability (I still use ethernet cable for my PC).
6) Is it better to have a separate motion activate light or combo unit like those RING ones (I find RING to be quite expensive and night time picture quality to be suboptimal based on some youtube video reviews I watched but I like the ease of installation)

I believe I probably need 6 cameras for the house. I don't have teh budget for $1000 camera (each). For the right one, I will spend $200-300 (obviously cheaper the better if it can accomplish what I want).

Many thanks

 

[mat200]

Hi, I was a victim of a recent burlary and have decied to install a system. I will probably need to hire professional to install it but I want to do enough research on my own to know what I should ask for. Here is the sitaution I try to solve

1) I need a camera that has the ability to see a license plate that may be 30-50 ft away from where the camera is at night. (If I had that, police would have a lead right now)
2) Other cameras, I just need to have very good night vision to see the face (if someone approaches my house)
3) I am torn between local storage vs. cloud. Is there a solution where there could be both?
4) I need to be able to turn on / off motion alerts that get sent to my phone. Basically I only want to turn that on in the evening or when we are away or else the # of alerts will be out of control as the street I am on has decent traffic
5) wireless will be great if there is one with very reliable connection but I am always skeptical of wifi connection reliability (I still use ethernet cable for my PC).
6) Is it better to have a separate motion activate light or combo unit like those RING ones (I find RING to be quite expensive and night time picture quality to be suboptimal based on some youtube video reviews I watched but I like the ease of installation)

I believe I probably need 6 cameras for the house. I don't have teh budget for $1000 camera (each). For the right one, I will spend $200-300 (obviously cheaper the better if it can accomplish what I want).

Many thanks

Welcome @catchthatguy

We've covered all those topics at various points - the place to start is the cliff notes.

Also look for @SouthernYankee 's greeting.. he has a great greeting post with good recommendations.

Remember to also get an alarm system - security camera systems are not alarm systems. The work well together, but neither replaces the other.

If you want reliable, skip the consumer cloud products. They have many faults... including not being good for evidence as many of them do not have embedded time stamps, and thus get challenged by defense attorneys all the time.

 

[catchthatguy]

Thanks. Will look. We have an alarm system but the guy left w/ some extreme valuable before the police showed up.

 

[SouthernYankee]

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan


Please note that security cameras are not an alarm system. Start with a good monitored alarm system. In general Cameras are good after the fact, good for who did it and when.

 

[catchthatguy]

Southernyankee

Thanks for the welcome note I read quite a bit of it and have realized that even picking the equipment may be beyond my ability.

Does anyone here on the forum have a really good installation guy knowledgeable about all these things in the NY tri state area? I want to do it once and do it right and am worried that I dont appreciate everything here

 

[catchthatguy]

So I was reading up on turet vs bullet camera. It says bullet does have better range or at least some sites online claim so. If I need my cameras to be able to see license plate or decent details (car model / person) which is say 35 feet or so away, is turret sufficient? Thanks

 

[SouthernYankee]

step one go slow...
I am over 70 . I install 13 cameras all hard wired in a single story house, in texas, I did it in the winter.

You need to spend time getting educated so you know what is good and what is bad. Please read the items in the wiki.

Most vendors are interested in making a sale, making a profit, they will try to sell you overpriced JUNK.

Do you have a good monitored alarm ?

Are you in an apartment,condo, or a single family house ? If house one or two stories.
Do you want cameras inside and outside ?

License plate readers (LPR) are cameras configured to just read license plates, nothing else. See the forum on LPR.

Post a drawing or layout of your property.

 

[catchthatguy]

Thanks. I definitely want to do this right and plan but am very concerned the guy will come back (they always do after success)

I have a good alarm. It went off but by the time police came, the guy was gone.

I live in a 2 story single family house. Lots of windows. 2 doors in the back to the yard.

I want cameras outside and probably also inside

I will private msg you with a drawing later today. Right now, I am reviewing camera footage my neighbors got since police doesn't care

Thanks!

 

[SouthernYankee]

Please look at the camera layout software. In the demo mode you can add 3 cameras.

IPVM Camera Calculator V3

 

[mat200]

Thanks. I definitely want to do this right and plan but am very concerned the guy will come back (they always do after success)

I have a good alarm. It went off but by the time police came, the guy was gone.

I live in a 2 story single family house. Lots of windows. 2 doors in the back to the yard.

I want cameras outside and probably also inside

I will private msg you with a drawing later today. Right now, I am reviewing camera footage my neighbors got since police doesn't care

Thanks!

Hi catchthatguy,

Go with an IP PoE system,

Start with one camera and a small PoE switch to learn more and look for examples of a test rig here on ipct.

 

[catchthatguy]

After some more research, I believe I want to build a blue iris rig. Seems like it gives me most flexibility. Are there cheaper WiFi motion detecting cameras for indoor that would work with blue iris? I don’t want cables running around inside. I went on Amazon looking for motion detecting camera but it’s unclear whether those work with blue iris.

 

[mat200]

After some more research, I believe I want to build a blue iris rig. Seems like it gives me most flexibility. Are there cheaper WiFi motion detecting cameras for indoor that would work with blue iris? I don’t want cables running around inside. I went on Amazon looking for motion detecting camera but it’s unclear whether those work with blue iris.

Hi @catchthatguy

Blue Iris will handle the motion detection compute, so all you need is a good reliable camera which has a good rtsp video feed.

Hikvision Cube cameras were very popular when there was a nice deal.. iirc that deal has expired, still worth keeping an eye out for it or similar.

There's a Dahua version which iirc looney2ns reviewed - so check his reviews

 

[J Sigmo]

Thanks. I definitely want to do this right and plan but am very concerned the guy will come back (they always do after success)

I have a good alarm. It went off but by the time police came, the guy was gone.

I live in a 2 story single family house. Lots of windows. 2 doors in the back to the yard.

I want cameras outside and probably also inside

I will private msg you with a drawing later today. Right now, I am reviewing camera footage my neighbors got since police doesn't care

Thanks!

As us gun enthusiasts like to say: "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away!"

But since it sounds like the burglar or burglars were scared off by the alarm the first time, hopefully they won't be inclined to risk a return visit. Hopefully!

Often, the police are not all that gung-ho when it comes to property crimes since they're busy with more immediate life-and-death matters and may be stretched thin, OR the local laws make it unlikely that even with a conviction, the burglars would ever see any punishment whatsoever. It makes it discouraging for the police and the victims, of course.

After some more research, I believe I want to build a blue iris rig. Seems like it gives me most flexibility. Are there cheaper WiFi motion detecting cameras for indoor that would work with blue iris? I don’t want cables running around inside. I went on Amazon looking for motion detecting camera but it’s unclear whether those work with blue iris.

You're definitely on the right track. Your budget for individual cameras is realistic, and you're already looking at a Blue Iris PC system, which, in my opinion, is the best way to go for most applications.

Welcome to the forum!

I always recommend getting a separate PC to run Blue Iris, and do nothing else.
Get a good sine-wave UPS for the PC if it's a newer PC with a power supply that employs automatic power factor correction. Those power supplies do not play well with stepped-waveform UPSs.
Get a Western Digital Purple, or other security video rated hard drive.
Get a solid state drive for the operating system, Blue Iris itself, and Blue Iris's clip database.

You'll probably want to use POE (Power Over Ethernet) cameras.

To power and connect to those POE cameras, you'll need a good POE Ethernet switch. Get one that can handle a LOT more cameras than you think you're going to want to begin with. If you think you'll need six cameras, get a 16 port switch.

When you run the Ethernet cable, get good CAT6 cable with pure copper conductors (never copper-clad aluminum - that stuff is dangerous and unreliable).
Run two or three Ethernet cables to each location. You'll be able to add another camera there easily, or swap out a cable if one goes bad. Your time and effort running the cable is worth far more than the cost of the cable itself.

Get a high-end Asus router to replace your existing router. They have OpenVPN built in, and enough RAM and processor power to encrypt and decrypt the secure VPN traffic you'll want to be using to access your cameras remotely from your phones, tablets, or other PCs when you're not on your LAN. The VPN is also great for secure surfing when you're away from home.

(I'm assuming you have high speed internet at your place).

As tempting as the inexpensive cloud-based camera systems are, they are not secure, and open your entire network up to hacking, spying, etc. Not a good thing!

That's all I can think of right off the bat.

 

[catchthatguy]

Unfortuantely, he took something very valuable before he ran away. Now, I need to make sure he doesn't come back. I have been playing detective last few nights reviewing all neighbors' vidoe footage. Unfortuantely, none was that good. So I decide to put something reallly good for me and for everyone on my block. These people need to look elsewhere.

As us gun enthusiasts like to say: "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away!"

But since it sounds like the burglar or burglars were scared off by the alarm the first time, hopefully they won't be inclined to risk a return visit. Hopefully!

Often, the police are not all that gung-ho when it comes to property crimes since they're busy with more immediate life-and-death matters and may be stretched thin, OR the local laws make it unlikely that even with a conviction, the burglars would ever see any punishment whatsoever. It makes it discouraging for the police and the victims, of course.



You're definitely on the right track. Your budget for individual cameras is realistic, and you're already looking at a Blue Iris PC system, which, in my opinion, is the best way to go for most applications.

Welcome to the forum!

I always recommend getting a separate PC to run Blue Iris, and do nothing else.
Get a good sine-wave UPS for the PC if it's a newer PC with a power supply that employs automatic power factor correction. Those power supplies do not play well with stepped-waveform UPSs.
Get a Western Digital Purple, or other security video rated hard drive.
Get a solid state drive for the operating system, Blue Iris itself, and Blue Iris's clip database.

You'll probably want to use POE (Power Over Ethernet) cameras.

To power and connect to those POE cameras, you'll need a good POE Ethernet switch. Get one that can handle a LOT more cameras than you think you're going to want to begin with. If you think you'll need six cameras, get a 16 port switch.

When you run the Ethernet cable, get good CAT6 cable with pure copper conductors (never copper-clad aluminum - that stuff is dangerous and unreliable).
Run two or three Ethernet cables to each location. You'll be able to add another camera there easily, or swap out a cable if one goes bad. Your time and effort running the cable is worth far more than the cost of the cable itself.

Get a high-end Asus router to replace your existing router. They have OpenVPN built in, and enough RAM and processor power to encrypt and decrypt the secure VPN traffic you'll want to be using to access your cameras remotely from your phones, tablets, or other PCs when you're not on your LAN. The VPN is also great for secure surfing when you're away from home.

(I'm assuming you have high speed internet at your place).

As tempting as the inexpensive cloud-based camera systems are, they are not secure, and open your entire network up to hacking, spying, etc. Not a good thing!

That's all I can think of right off the bat.

 

[mat200]

Unfortuantely, he took something very valuable before he ran away. Now, I need to make sure he doesn't come back. I have been playing detective last few nights reviewing all neighbors' vidoe footage. Unfortuantely, none was that good. So I decide to put something reallly good for me and for everyone on my block. These people need to look elsewhere.

Hi @catchthatguy

When reviewing those videos - keep in mind what you do not like and what you do like about them. Use that knowledge for when you setup your own system.

For me the biggest take away was:

• No embedded time stamps in many videos
• Poor low light performance
• Cameras mounted too high for a good facial ID image
• Not enough cameras - thieves can turn their back to the camera.
• Need to catch both a good ID image as well as what sort of crime they committed. ( example of them breaking in the door and walking out with a TV )

 

[catchthatguy]

Do you guys think I really need to run cat6 cable? Because my house already has cat 5e run to places I need, I want to see whether that is justified to run 6 (I would run 6 if I dont have existing cables).

 

[catchthatguy]

Hi @catchthatguy

When reviewing those videos - keep in mind what you do not like and what you do like about them. Use that knowledge for when you setup your own system.

For me the biggest take away was:

• No embedded time stamps in many videos
• Poor low light performance
• Cameras mounted too high for a good facial ID image
• Not enough cameras - thieves can turn their back to the camera.
• Need to catch both a good ID image as well as what sort of crime they committed. ( example of them breaking in the door and walking out with a TV )

Agreed. the low light perfomrance, time stamp, software not being user friendly were all issues I want my system to avoid.

 

[mat200]

Do you guys think I really need to run cat6 cable? Because my house already has cat 5e run to places I need, I want to see whether that is justified to run 6 (I would run 6 if I dont have existing cables).

As long as it is solid copper cat5e I would keep it. If it is CCA then I would replace it.

 

[catchthatguy]

Hi, I did look at the section talking about hardware. I have a i5-2500 w/ 8gb ram sitting here (I just upgraded to a new PC a few months ago). Do you think it's powerful enough to support 8 cameras on blue iris? Would be nice to put this system to good use.

And to expand on this question, this is what the wiki section says:

Monitor Blue Iris CPU usage, and keep it below 100% under normal circumstances, so there is headroom for other functions, i.e. remote viewing, clip exports, Windows defender (ugh), etc... Recompressing video is very CPU intensive, and Blue Iris’ “Direct-to-disk” (Camera properties > record > file format) recording does not recompress video; it maintains original video quality and reduces CPU usage. This feature requires an Intel processor with Intel Quick Sync.

Further reduce CPU load by reducing the camera's frame rate to 10-15 FPS, 4096 bit rate, and the image quality setting to 4 in the camera web interface. Go into Blue Iris Options > Cameras tab (same place the hardware acceleration option is) and limit the live preview rate to ~10 FPS to reduce your CPU usage. This setting is important for optimal performance, as Blue Iris is really slow at drawing video on screen.

If I set the image quality setting to 4, does it mean it's meaningless to get high resolution camera or is it only if someone accesses it remotely over the web? I guess what I want is to record at best resolution (30 vs 15 FPS less important) so when the unfortunate day comes that I need to find the details of the burglar, I have it. If that means I need to spend an extra $500 building a new PC (I just did one), so be it. I don't want to compromise the end result just to cut corner here despite the fact that it would be nice to use my i5-2500 that is sitting around.

is "Blue Iris is really slow at drawing video on screen." a network speed issue or CPU? I would spend a little extra on CPU if that is a CPU issue that can be resolved getting a current gen intel 6 core CPU

 

[mat200]

.. If that means I need to spend an extra $500 building a new PC (I just did one), so be it. ..

Hi @catchthatguy

Many members are picking up used windows PC for Blue Iris with a gen-4 to gen-6 intel i5/i7

That looks much more cost effective than building a completely new system.

I suspect the gen-2 i5 will not do as well - however, since you already have it - why not start with that and try the demo version of Blue Iris until you get a better system?