Help picking new cameras

[qflyer]

Been reading up on cameras for a few weeks now. More confused than ever, so I'd like to hear what system you all would buy/build.

Goal: 2-3 cameras to monitor outside of home. 2-3 cameras on my boat dock roughly 300' away from the house. I have internet (via point to point wireless bridge to a POE+ switch) on the dock. I live in the country and I don't have much/any lighting outside the house or boat dock, so it's very dark at night. I don't want cameras that just let me see something happened. I want quality images and the ability to make out faces from 20-30 feet. I need to be able to see the registration numbers on the boat if someone pulls up to my dock. It doesn't do me any good to have a video of someone stealing stuff off the dock if the video of their face or boat registration is too grainy to use.

I (stupidly) started with a few wifi cameras a couple years ago. Quickly realized they're junk. Started looking at other options back in August and decided to go with POE IP cameras and an NVR. Found Reolink and Amcrest and liked Reolink for no particular reason other than a few youtube videos about them.

Then I saw a business in town with Lorex cameras and the owner said they're great. So after a bit of research, I pretty much decided on their package deal "16-Channel Nocturnal NVR System with 4K (8MP) Smart IP Security Cameras with Real-Time 30FPS Recording and Listen-in Audio". Not sure if posting links is allowed, but you can find it easy enough with a google search. 16 CH NVR with 8 4K bullet cameras for about $1040. Can't beat that, right?

I'll admit to being hung up on 4K for no reason other than assuming 4K has to be higher image quality than anything less than 4K, but now I'm pretty sure that's not always the case. I was watching videos on PTZ cameras and saw a comparison between 4MP Lorex and several others (I think at least one was a 4K camera). A commenter said that all the cameras tested would be blown away by a 2MP Dahua (SD49225XA), and from what I saw on other YT videos, he was right. So how is a 2MP $399 Dahua better than a 4MP $500 Lorex? Hence my new confusion about all of this stuff and trying to get the best bang for my buck and realizing I can maybe do more/better with cameras that aren't 4K, but are better in other ways.

I'm willing to mix and match to build a custom system or go with a package deal. Let's cap the budget at $1,500. Right now, priority is fixed cameras on the dock and house with the option to add a nice $500-$1000 PTZ later on. I'm open to Blue Iris, custom NVR, or whatever else is out there. I do want 24/7/365 recording for all cameras and I want to be able to monitor the cameras live on my TV when I'm home and check them remotely as I'm out of town a lot. Motion alerts via text/notification is a must.

So, with an initial budget of $1,500 what's my best option for right now and keeping in mind future additions like a PTZ or two next year?

 

[wittaj]

Welcome!

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k on the wrong sensor will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

That system you are looking at will not cut it for you. A 4k camera on the 2.8mm on the 1/2.8" sensor will be blind at night and won't IDENTIFY much past 10 feet. See my bold statement above! Plus, you don't need 30FPS for surveillance cameras, and that NVR wouldn't support all cameras at that FPS and a decent bitrate either.

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for (and what is in most kits), someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to eliminate motion blur at night.



My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k Lorex cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car. That neighbor with the 4k started to replace with 2MP models based on what he saw my do compared to his.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

If your perps are on a boat 30- 45 feet away from the camera, no 2.8mm fixed lens camera will do you any good in the day and especially at night to identify.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom. In many instances that might be a 2MP camera.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and Nocturnal and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal (the bandwidth is can process is a huge limiting factor), and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...

 

[mat200]

Been reading up on cameras for a few weeks now. More confused than ever, so I'd like to hear what system you all would buy/build.

Goal: 2-3 cameras to monitor outside of home. 2-3 cameras on my boat dock roughly 300' away from the house. I have internet (via point to point wireless bridge to a POE+ switch) on the dock. I live in the country and I don't have much/any lighting outside the house or boat dock, so it's very dark at night. I don't want cameras that just let me see something happened. I want quality images and the ability to make out faces from 20-30 feet. I need to be able to see the registration numbers on the boat if someone pulls up to my dock. It doesn't do me any good to have a video of someone stealing stuff off the dock if the video of their face or boat registration is too grainy to use.

I (stupidly) started with a few wifi cameras a couple years ago. Quickly realized they're junk. Started looking at other options back in August and decided to go with POE IP cameras and an NVR. Found Reolink and Amcrest and liked Reolink for no particular reason other than a few youtube videos about them.

Then I saw a business in town with Lorex cameras and the owner said they're great. So after a bit of research, I pretty much decided on their package deal "16-Channel Nocturnal NVR System with 4K (8MP) Smart IP Security Cameras with Real-Time 30FPS Recording and Listen-in Audio". Not sure if posting links is allowed, but you can find it easy enough with a google search. 16 CH NVR with 8 4K bullet cameras for about $1040. Can't beat that, right?

I'll admit to being hung up on 4K for no reason other than assuming 4K has to be higher image quality than anything less than 4K, but now I'm pretty sure that's not always the case. I was watching videos on PTZ cameras and saw a comparison between 4MP Lorex and several others (I think at least one was a 4K camera). A commenter said that all the cameras tested would be blown away by a 2MP Dahua (SD49225XA), and from what I saw on other YT videos, he was right. So how is a 2MP $399 Dahua better than a 4MP $500 Lorex? Hence my new confusion about all of this stuff and trying to get the best bang for my buck and realizing I can maybe do more/better with cameras that aren't 4K, but are better in other ways.

I'm willing to mix and match to build a custom system or go with a package deal. Let's cap the budget at $1,500. Right now, priority is fixed cameras on the dock and house with the option to add a nice $500-$1000 PTZ later on. I'm open to Blue Iris, custom NVR, or whatever else is out there. I do want 24/7/365 recording for all cameras and I want to be able to monitor the cameras live on my TV when I'm home and check them remotely as I'm out of town a lot. Motion alerts via text/notification is a must.

So, with an initial budget of $1,500 what's my best option for right now and keeping in mind future additions like a PTZ or two next year?

Welcome @qflyer

If you need any decent low light performance you will want to avoid Reolink. ( we have a number of threads and examples on it ).


Kit you referenced: "16-Channel Nocturnal NVR System with 4K (8MP) Smart IP Security Cameras with Real-Time 30FPS Recording and Listen-in Audio"

NVR
N882A63B
4K Ultra HD Network Video Recorder:

IP PoE camera
LNE9252B / LNE9242B
4K Smart IP Dome Security Camera Features:

Note: the specs on the camera ( please see attached )
Image Sensor 4K (8MP) 1/2.8" CMOS

Due to the small sensor size I would avoid this kit, Lorex and others have been putting smaller sensors in their kits this last 1-2 years.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.

Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. Chase sensor size and bigger is better. To confuse you more sensor sizes are listed in fractions so do the basic math to be sure, 1/2.7 is bigger than 1/2.8 or 1/3. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".

A dedicated PC doesn't need to be either expensive to purchase or to run. A used business class machine can be had from eBay and various other sources. The advances made in Blue Iris make it easily possible to run a fairly large system on relatively inexpensive hardware which also makes power consumption low, as in under 50 watts in many cases. The biggest expenses turn out to be hard drives for storing video and a PoE switch to power the cameras and, of course, the cameras themselves.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, are other critical factors. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Watch this video to learn how to analyze each location for appropriate lens size and keep in mind that it may take two cameras to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

 

[TVille]

Welcome!!

When people say something is great, you have to consider their knowledge and experience in that specific field. The guy recommending Lorex has probably never seen properly setup systems as described above. Literally night and day difference. Also, most businesses have very different video surveillance needs than what you are looking for.

I recommend you review the information @wittaj and @sebastiantombs posted. It may be overwhelming at first. Then consider what you want to cover - Google Maps or Earth is great for this. Print out an aerial and take a red pencil to it. Compare that to the DORI charts posted above. Post your proposed layouts on here and folks will be glad to comment on them. Ensuring you get baot registration numbers will require a little bit more attention than most installations. But since folks here can pull incense plates in the dark at well over 150 feet, it can be done.

I use Blue Iris, and don't have any experience with NVRs. Buying a used business class computer off eBay you can get all the computer you need for $200 - $500.

 

[wittaj]

^+1 this exactly. A well-lit business and a no-lit house and boat dock are two extremes and a camera working well in a business is probably the wrong choice for your application.

Too bad you didn't come here before purchasing those wifi cams, but good thing you came here before purchasing a Reolink system based on something you saw on YouTube!

Isn't everyone an expert on YouTube LOL...just remember many of those videos are by people being paid promotional/affiliate dollars by a vendor and/or receiving revenue by YouTube based on number of hits they get. In the past few months we have seen many people come here after being burned by a YouTuber... Plus, when someone has 200,000+ subscribers, inevitably they will start to push consumer grade stuff that is "plug-n-play" because they do not want to take thousands of posts asking what does this setting do and what does that do...

Plus the YouTube videos tend to be full productions for the likes and thus YouTube revenue, where the folks here post videos for the sole sake of letting others know how well or not the cameras perform. Now some here do an excellent job of post-production of the reviews of cameras with text narrative and overlays of the settings, etc., but most of us just put out raw video for you to see for yourself.

A great camera can be placed at the wrong spot, which then leads to bad reviews on an otherwise great camera. Likewise, a novice surveillance camera user goes by static images and boasts about how great a camera is when it really isn't very good with motion. So if someone calls it a security camera, then maybe do not put much stock in what they say

This forum allows others to actually see videos of these cameras at locations and can then make a determination on if that is similar to their situation (lighting, distance, etc.) and would that camera be the right or wrong selection for what they are trying to achieve.

This is a still image example from a manufacturer marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. Could this provide anything useful for the police? Would this protect your home? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... and I am sure it has more light than your boat dock! Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:



Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

 

[qflyer]

Thanks for all the help so far! Here are some pictures of the dock. Feel free to make camera suggestions for good coverage. If you'd also link to recommended computers to use with blue iris for storing the footage, that would be great. Is it possible to use the computer for recording/monitoring and also as a home PC for basic stuff like web browsing, email, etc? Or should it be a machine dedicated to only cameras?

Here's the dock. It's 42' wide (left to right in this picture) and 30' deep (front to back). I'm not concerned about the upper deck right now, only the lower. It has two boat slips, but one slip is only used occasionally when friends visit. It's generally empty, so a thief could pull up anywhere on the dock including in the open slip.


This is an angle I have to have. The props on the boat are worth $1,500 and can be removed in a few minutes. The props are 23' away from where I took this picture. I could angle it down some and also capture anyone entering the open slip. Anyone stealing the props would have to do so from a boat floating behind mine.


Same location as previous picture, looking forward. Maybe one camera could be angled to capture the props and the bow of the boat? Guessing a wide angle like that would lose too much detail for identifying someone on the dock or at the props though? They'd be 23-35 feet from the camera.


Generally have some skis, wakeboards, etc in the bow of the boat overnight. They'd be easy to grab without having to jump up into the boat. Could be accessed from the open slip side or from the other side of the boat off the swim platform.


View from the swim platform. Would be nice to have a camera recoding the entire swim platform. Kids tend to leave stuff laying out here overnight.


This is the only access in or out of the slough to my dock. I have an open view from shore out to the main channel. The slough is 300' wide with an average of about 120' between boat docks on either side. Maybe a future PTZ or just zoomed in camera here?


It's probably beyond the budget for this year, but I think a PTZ would be perfect here. I've seen some with auto tracking (assume it would work with boats?). It would be great to be able to track boats as they approach the dock. If it can zoom in automatically to grab registration numbers, it may be worth adding a PTZ now, even if it exceeds the budget. From where I took this picture, it's 75' to the close corner of the dock. 120' to the far corner. Another reason to have a camera here is to capture any damage done to the dock by boat wakes or bad weather. Being able to see what happened could help with insurance claims.


Thanks for any suggestions! I've looked at most of the ones linked above, and definitely leaning towards Dahua. Searching Dahua model numbers brings up Amazon links to Loryta cameras. Is that rebranded Dahua? Avoid or not?

 

[wittaj]

The general advice is to treat the BI computer like an NVR and that is its only function. Now many do use it for email and light web browsing.

You will need several cameras to cover those areas. You could easily have 4 or more on the perimeter looking in to capture the areas of interest you want. Those expensive props will need a camera on either side pointing at it. And then some outward facing ones as well to catch perps coming to it.

Now keep in mind that with these cameras and BI, you can set up alerts to alert you if anyone is down there so you can go down there. Or get at least one active deterrent camera that would alarm and you could speak through.

You will want the varifocal cameras so that you can optically zoom it to the areas you want to cover. At those distances a fixed camera lens will be too wide to IDENTIFY.

The 5442-ZE and 5442-Z4E would be the leading choices. Use my distance references above as a guide. Swim platform would probably be ok for a 2.8 fixed lens though and use it as more an overview yet be able to see if anyone left anything there.

And your further away perch would be ideal for a PTZ!

Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech are sold by a member here Andy @EMPIRETECANDY. Great, fast service.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you by from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from an authorized dealer. You select the country at camera initialization.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provided that to Andy for sale before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site.

 

[Flintstone61]

I think a 5442 6mm or the ZE model would watch your props with enough detail to ID somebody. here is my 6mm on day and night. I hadn't planned on it catching plates. But since it can, I made the night setting shutter @ 1/1000. It's 11 feet up on a telephone pole, looking 20-30ft. to the cars in those pics. These are 90% resolution email notifications.

 

[Flintstone61]

Here is the 5241E-Z12 in dedicated license plate duty. The wide angle/color pic is the 5442 2.8mm turret.

 

[sebastiantombs]

My view is that if you can't get a positive ID you're not getting what you actually need when you need it the most. Sure, being able to present a clip to law enforcement showing something was stolen or vandalized is good and supports an insurance claim, but being able to actually identify who did it is the end goal.

 

[TVille]

I would expect to take the police several videos, showing approach, docking, activity, identify perp, departure. Identity is sort of hit and miss if the perps are good - they can wear hoodies, masks, etc. But, with cameras at 7' max above the deck, and at least two directions, you are maximizing your chances. Get a computer for BI, and get a single 5442 varifocal to setup in temporary locations to get a feel for it. Here is the Amazon link to the one to start with. It is from @EMPIRETECANDY , a vendor on here that provides great products, service and equipment. After you get that setup and understand how it works, especially at night, you can determine how much more zoom you need for different applications.

 

[mat200]

..

So as it relates to the OP, the thought exercise I was suggesting was based on the notion of why he wants cameras in the first place.

Indeed @YrbkMgr

Absolutely important for those looking for security cameras to take the time to really stop and think of what they functionally want / need.

Too often those new to security cameras do not know enough about the topic to really understand that the camera they pick may not meet the imagined need.

Also, often they are mislead by advertising and youtubers.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I felt the same way until something happened. Not being able to get anything solid enough, other than seeing something happen and having a video record of it just wasn't enough after that. As the saying from looney2ns says, buy once, cry once.

 

[TVille]

So as I say, identity is not factor in my strategy. If it were, I'd need better cameras and have them wired instead of wireless. Oh... mission creep is there... I want better cameras. License plate ID? Face recognition? Very cool... just think, if I got a better camera... just like you said... crack. But when I looked at why I put them in service in the first place, I am achieving my goals.

So as it relates to the OP, the thought exercise I was suggesting was based on the notion of why he wants cameras in the first place.

I have my cameras set to notify me of incursions on the perimeter of my property. However, sometimes those incursions are short lived, as in a couple of minutes at 3:00 am. While they may not get much in a couple of minutes, I still want to identify them to have the police go talk with them or arrest them. I also am not home all day everyday, even though we are retired. So I want both notification and identification.

But, the understanding of what your needs, wants and expectations are is vital to getting what you want to meet your needs at a reasonable cost!

 

[mat200]

That's exactly the reason I regret buying Amcrest.

FYI - I do have some Amcrest cameras, and have no regrets with the one's I picked up ( good deals for the price I paid, and the first IP PoE camera I got was an Amcrest bullet camera, Dahua OEM - far better than all the past cameras I had picked up at that time ) .. of course, knowing more I would now spend more for the 4MP 1/1.8" models

 

[qflyer]

Based on all the suggestions here, this is what I'm thinking so far.

Buy one IPC-T5442T-ZE for $190

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/

I can use that camera to check different mounting locations on the dock and figure out appropriate focal lengths for each spot. With that info I can order a couple IPC-T5442TM-AS for $155/ea in either 2.8, 3.6 or 6 mm versions as appropriate.

That gives me 3 cameras on the dock for $500 even.

The more I watch video of the PTZ cameras, the more I want one. I'm considering 3 different models and could use some advice.

The three I'm looking at are:
SD5A425XA-HNR 4MP 25x Starlight+ IR WizSense network PTZ. 1/1.8" 4MP CMOS. I can get this camera from EmpireTech for $750.

SD49425XB-HNR 4MP 25x Starlight IR WizSense network PTZ. 1/2.8" 4MP CMOS. This one is $440 on Amazon under the Loryta brand.

SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight IR WizSense network PTZ. 1.2.8" 2MP CMOS. $400 on Amazon under Loryta brand.

Based on the recommendations earlier in this post, the two best options would be the 2MP 49225 with 1/2.8 or the 4MP 5A425 with 1/1.8". My question is how useful will these PTZs be at night? Will any of them be able to ID a person or pick up boat registration letters (3" tall, non-reflective, supposed to be contrasting colors with the boat, e.g. black letters on a white hull) at night from 100' away? I think I'm mostly interested in daytime quality with the PTZ, so it seems like the SD49425XB for $440 would be the best deal despite the 1/2.8" sensor unless one of the other two can actually provide details about boat/driver at night and the 4MP 1/2.8 sensor couldn't.

Final questions about the Loryta PTZs are: do they all have auto-tracking? The Dahua site seems to indicate that the 49225 and 49425 models do not have that feature, but the 5A425XA does have auto-tracking. I think I've seen on this forum that the Loryta/EmpireTech versions have a firmware which gives the 4 series PTZs auto-tracking. Is that right?

The spec sheet says the PTZs use 20-22 watts with the IR on. My switch on the dock is a 7 port (2 in, 5 POE+ out) with a max of 30W per port and a total combined of 78W. Ethernet run to the small cameras would all be less than 40' but the run to the PTZ would be 140-150'. Any concerns about being able to power everything with just POE?

Depending on which PTZ I go with, I'll be at $900 to $1250 just for cameras at the dock. Add in mounts and ethernet cables and I'll be $1000-1400ish.

Still have to add a BI computer for what looks like $400+. If I go with the $400 PTZ, I'll be just about right on the top end of my budget, but I don't want to regret not getting something better if it's worth going over budget by a few hundred bucks.

 

[Griswalduk]

My reading so far is that you are on a very good course with solid choices.

I'll leave it too others here to recommend the ptz and setting up the auto tracking

You might want to upgrade the POE switch though to be sure of adequate power for the ptz and for future use. My 5442's typical take 5-6w per camera at night. So multiply by your number of cameras add the ptz and subtract from your 78w total. Your set up sounds like it will work. What do others think?

The cost of the mounts and cable and connectors etc are the thin end of the wedge. Just use the appropriate dahua mounts and junction boxes and quality cable and connectors.

https://m.aliexpress.com/storesearch/list/.html?spm=a2g0n.storecategory.0.0.c101b7528Yi7h6&sceneId=040000&sellerAdminSeq=220951134&sortType=TC3_D&groupId=500645815&storeId=1200032

Note the square boxes will facilitate easier maintenance. Just double check they will fit your chosen camera type before ordering.

Ethernet Cable Color Coding Diagram - The Internet Centre

incentre.net

Always use the 568b wiring method.

RJCAB-X-3050 | Brad from Molex Cat5e Ethernet Cable, U/UTP, Black PE Sheath, 304m | RS

uk.rs-online.com

Cat5e or cat6 outdoor rated cable will do. Cat5e is probably easier to terminate, more flexible and fit into junction boxes / mounts. Do not use CCA Cooper clad aluminium cable.

Ideal RJ45 FT-45 Feed-Thru Crimp Tool 5 1/2" (140mm) - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Simple, compact and highly effective lightweight tool which crimps and trims in one step. Ratchet-free mechanical design requires less force, enabling one-handed crimping. Ideal for frequent users. The single crimp cavity for RJ45 / 8-position connectors can be used...

www.screwfix.com

Quality rj45 pass through crimping tool. The advantage is a better connection and you can confirm wiring before finally crimping.

Ideal RJ45 8P/8C Feed-Thru Modular Plugs 25 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Open-end connectors where conductor order can be verified prior to crimping. Can be pushed or pulled into the connector to ensure that the twisted pairs are as close to the pin contacts as possible and that the jacket is seated beyond the primary strain relief for a...

www.screwfix.com

Note cat6 connectors are backwards compatible with cat5e cable.

Excuse the UK links you can source local.

Good luck

Post edited. Use outdoor cable

 

[user8963]

My reading so far is that you are on a very good course with solid choices.

I'll leave it too others here to recommend the ptz and setting up the auto tracking

You might want to upgrade the POE switch though to be sure of adequate power for the ptz and for future use. My 5442's typical take 5-6w per camera at night. So multiply by your number of cameras add the ptz and subtract from your 78w total. Your set up sounds like it will work. What do others think?

The cost of the mounts and cable and connectors etc are the thin end of the wedge. Just use the appropriate dahua mounts and junction boxes and quality cable and connectors.

https://m.aliexpress.com/storesearch/list/.html?spm=a2g0n.storecategory.0.0.c101b7528Yi7h6&sceneId=040000&sellerAdminSeq=220951134&sortType=TC3_D&groupId=500645815&storeId=1200032

Note the square boxes will facilitate easier maintenance. Just double check they will fit your chosen camera type before ordering.

Ethernet Cable Color Coding Diagram - The Internet Centre

incentre.net

Always use the 568b wiring method.

PowerCat 5e 4 Pair LS0H Cable U/UTP, 305m Box - Violet

Molex PowerCat 5E 4 Pair UTP cable has been designed to support high speed data transmission systems. This cable is part of the PowerCat System range of products that have been designed based on the PowerSum principle of crosstalk, measurement and testing.

www.molexces.com

Cat5e or cat6 cable will do. Cat5e is probably easier to terminate, more flexible and fit into junction boxes / mounts. Do not use CCA Cooper clad aluminium cable.

Ideal RJ45 FT-45 Feed-Thru Crimp Tool 5 1/2" (140mm) - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Simple, compact and highly effective lightweight tool which crimps and trims in one step. Ratchet-free mechanical design requires less force, enabling one-handed crimping. Ideal for frequent users. The single crimp cavity for RJ45 / 8-position connectors can be used...

www.screwfix.com

Quality rj45 pass through crimping tool. The advantage is a better connection and you can confirm wiring before finally crimping.

Ideal RJ45 8P/8C Feed-Thru Modular Plugs 25 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Open-end connectors where conductor order can be verified prior to crimping. Can be pushed or pulled into the connector to ensure that the twisted pairs are as close to the pin contacts as possible and that the jacket is seated beyond the primary strain relief for a...

www.screwfix.com

Note cat6 connectors are backwards compatible with cat5e cable.

Excuse the UK links you can source local.

Good luck

I disagree with this stuff in europe.
Sadly gel filled cable seems not certified in europe, so you have to buy at least some "direct burial outdoor" cable. This will be best for any outdoor usage.

cable:

Outdoor Bulk Ethernet Cables-Bulk Copper Cables-Copper Systems - FS.com United Kingdom

connectors:

VDV826-704 Klein Tools, Inc. | Connectors, Interconnects | DigiKey

Order today, ships today. VDV826-704 – Plug Modular Connector 8p8c (RJ45, Ethernet) Position Unshielded Cat6a IDC from Klein Tools, Inc.. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.

www.digikey.co.uk

tool:
any pass through crimp tool


US:
truecable / monoprice (discussed here everywhere).

 

[wittaj]

Do not fall for the MP trap. The 49225 and 49425 are on the same 1/2.8" sensor, which means the 2MP will kick the 4MP butt all night long. The 4MP will need double the light of the 2MP, which you have very little of at night.

The 2MP 49225 is the current champ at it's price point. And yes if you purchase from Andy it comes with autotrack. If you purchase anywhere else it does not. You likely will not find it cheaper elsewhere anyway. You can find on here where someone posted the firmware if you purchase it elsewhere, but that is obviously proceed at your own risk as the camera may brick if it is a different chipset (and yes there is a different chipset out on this camera that will brick). Just purchase from Andy and be done with it!

I can read street signs 1,000 feet away with my 49225. The zoom on this thing is incredible. As long as the camera is optically zoomed in (no different than the advice of any camera), you will read that stuff at 100 feet with no problem.

Sounds like you might need a bigger POE switch. Or purchase a second one if this one can't handle it.