Hi - looking for security camera advice

MattR

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Hi,

I do IT for a small non profit that is interested in setting up security camera(s) and I'm looking for advice.

First, about me. I write software for a living. I use linux and have no issues, say, in building raspberry pi boxes. That said, whatever I create I want to make sure that other people can use it. I have not done much with security cameras before, other than using Nest.

Next, about the non-profit and our needs. We are a small congregation that meets in a rented facility on weekends. We are writing a grant to improve our security. Our budget for camera equipment (my part of this grant) is around a thousand dollars.

We only need cameras running at the times we meet and they need to be put up and taken down every weekend. The people doing it can plug things in, turn them on, and use a phone app to check that they work, and that's about it. The videos would be used by law enforcement to identify anyone that does anything suspicious or outright illegal. We always have a police officer around at the time we need to run cameras. So, the cameras are not for preventing anything (other than a camera will make someone think twice) but rather they are for looking at video afterwards. Afterwards might mean 2 minutes afterward or it might mean up to 6 months later. So, we would like the ability to look back, quickly, at what happened within the past hour but also look back up to 6 months ago later in the week. We want to record everything and not have some software decide when to record and when to not. We would have, at most, 12 hours a month of video for each camera. Right now, I'm told we only need one camera. My guess is, if we can set up at least two it would be better. They would both be inside. We would like 1080p resolution.

I've looked at several cameras that have cloud storage but none of them support anything close to 6 months. An alternative is load to the cloud and download within a week. Unfortunately nothing that I've found supports an API for doing that and so it's a hack to get the video. That brings up local storage. That would work okay for looking at video later in the week but I'd also like to look at the past hour's worth of storage. For example, if the police officer asks for an image of someone right away then someone should be able to look at the past hour of video.

It would be very good if we could limit any logging in to the cameras to known mac addresses. One other thing, we currently have our own router that we set up for a camera that's used for something else, so setting up a firewall to limit who can login to a camera could be possible.

So, with all that said, are there some obvious, easy solutions I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Matt
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

Welcome to the land of video surveillance lunatics. Be sure to check the WiKI, in the blue bar at the top of the page. Study, carefully on a real computer, the Cliff Notes in there. There is also a lot of other good information for sizing a system and keeping it safe on the internet, foil the "phone home" features. Read, study plan, ask questions, revise plans and test before spending money. It'll save you time, frustration and money in the end. There's tons of reviews here on cameras, and NVRs to help confuse you even more when trying to make a decision.

If you're up to writing your own code, complete with video management, you're good to go with some cameras an some form of Linux box. I would suggest either a simple NVR, dedicated network video recorder, or a modest PC running Win10 and Blue Iris. You'll need some kind of hard drive, to two, to store your video for the time period you're looking at.

Study the Cliff Notes, on a real PC and not a phone or tablet. You need to determine what focal lengths you'll need as well to be able to provide positive ID. Don't chase megapixels. 4MP is good and 2MP would probably be acceptable as well. More MP means more money, for a good camera, and also takes more storage space for video. You need to balance those for your budget.

Above all, test with one camera by monitoring directly on a PC before buying a whole system.
 

area651

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Hi,

I do IT for a small non profit that is interested in setting up security camera(s) and I'm looking for advice.

First, about me. I write software for a living. I use linux and have no issues, say, in building raspberry pi boxes. That said, whatever I create I want to make sure that other people can use it. I have not done much with security cameras before, other than using Nest.

Next, about the non-profit and our needs. We are a small congregation that meets in a rented facility on weekends. We are writing a grant to improve our security. Our budget for camera equipment (my part of this grant) is around a thousand dollars.

We only need cameras running at the times we meet and they need to be put up and taken down every weekend. The people doing it can plug things in, turn them on, and use a phone app to check that they work, and that's about it. The videos would be used by law enforcement to identify anyone that does anything suspicious or outright illegal. We always have a police officer around at the time we need to run cameras. So, the cameras are not for preventing anything (other than a camera will make someone think twice) but rather they are for looking at video afterwards. Afterwards might mean 2 minutes afterward or it might mean up to 6 months later. So, we would like the ability to look back, quickly, at what happened within the past hour but also look back up to 6 months ago later in the week. We want to record everything and not have some software decide when to record and when to not. We would have, at most, 12 hours a month of video for each camera. Right now, I'm told we only need one camera. My guess is, if we can set up at least two it would be better. They would both be inside. We would like 1080p resolution.

I've looked at several cameras that have cloud storage but none of them support anything close to 6 months. An alternative is load to the cloud and download within a week. Unfortunately nothing that I've found supports an API for doing that and so it's a hack to get the video. That brings up local storage. That would work okay for looking at video later in the week but I'd also like to look at the past hour's worth of storage. For example, if the police officer asks for an image of someone right away then someone should be able to look at the past hour of video.

It would be very good if we could limit any logging in to the cameras to known mac addresses. One other thing, we currently have our own router that we set up for a camera that's used for something else, so setting up a firewall to limit who can login to a camera could be possible.

So, with all that said, are there some obvious, easy solutions I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Matt

Matt, where's your non profit? (message me). If I'm close I might be able to help.

I think an NVR might be the easiest plug and play up and down system. You won't find anything about Linux here. In all honesty, I've never seen anything Linux based in this type of software worthwhile even for someone who works/uses linux every day. Much less anyone who you might be trying to help who is unlikely to understand linux.

This is interesting. You need cameras when you're there and running and not while you're gone? That's the opposite of what most people want.
 

mat200

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Hi,

I do IT for a small non profit that is interested in setting up security camera(s) and I'm looking for advice.

First, about me. I write software for a living. I use linux and have no issues, say, in building raspberry pi boxes. That said, whatever I create I want to make sure that other people can use it. I have not done much with security cameras before, other than using Nest.

Next, about the non-profit and our needs. We are a small congregation that meets in a rented facility on weekends. We are writing a grant to improve our security. Our budget for camera equipment (my part of this grant) is around a thousand dollars.

We only need cameras running at the times we meet and they need to be put up and taken down every weekend. The people doing it can plug things in, turn them on, and use a phone app to check that they work, and that's about it. The videos would be used by law enforcement to identify anyone that does anything suspicious or outright illegal. We always have a police officer around at the time we need to run cameras....

Thanks,
Matt
Welcome @MattR

Unusual requirements.

Probably a good IP camera that can do an rtsp stream and have a SD card and small poe switch would be the start...

..I've never seen anything Linux based in this type of software worthwhile even for someone who works/uses linux every day. Much less anyone who you might be trying to help who is unlikely to understand linux.
..
FYI - I recall fenderman mentioning some professional quality products which run on linux - though for most of us it is beyond our price / value / budget target sweet spot - so it is not often considered by folks here.
 
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Let me see if I understand your requirements:
1. You only want two 1080p cameras
2. Monitor inside the building while your group is present
3. Be able to ID someone if required
4. ease of use
5. be able to pack it up every weekend
6. ability to keep video for 6 months
7. expect to generate 12 hours of video each month per camera
8. ability to review videos

So a few questions:
Is this a single room? How big is it? Depending on how big it is you may need more than two cameras to be able to get a face ID. Do you need internet connectivity? How will you mount cameras? Just sitting on like a table or desktop?

I am thinking a laptop running BlueIris, a simple POE or regular switch, and a couple of Dauha baby monitor type cameras would probably do it. They could be WIFI and you would substitute a WIFI router access point for the switch.

I know we do not recommend a laptop for BI and we recommend against WIFI, but this special case seems like it would be OK.

Guestimates:
$350 Laptop
$58 BlueIris here at IPCAM Talk
$100 Dauha IPC A35 3MP US $99.74 5% OFF|IPC A35 Built in Mic & Speaker HD PT 3MP Wi Fi Network Camera baby monitor IPC A35,free Shipping|camera baby monitors|network camera|wi-fi baby monitor - AliExpress
$100 Switch or WIFI Router

So about $700 for two cameras, laptop, BI

Any other IPCAMTALKers have comments/recommendations? Would this work? I have never tried BI on a laptop and kind of 'standalone'.
 

looney2ns

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Avoid Wifi....always.
If you don't need audio or can't, check local laws, this would work well: Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera | IP Cam Talk
If audio is needed, (20) Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal | IP Cam Talk
Then use Blue Iris with an Optiplex SFF pc. Small, light weight. Blue Iris gives the ability to immediately review footage without hassle.
$100 monitor.
Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk
Then you would need a POE switch. Should be able to take down and put up in 30 minutes or less depending on how you are mounting the cameras.
 

MattR

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Thank you all for responding. I haven't read the cliff notes yet, but here's a quick reply just so you know I haven't sucombed to the coronovirus.

This is interesting. You need cameras when you're there and running and not while you're gone? That's the opposite of what most people want.
This is for a religious congregation. In a nutshell, we're less worried about vandalism then being shot. We haven't had any issues, and we want to keep it that way.

Let me see if I understand your requirements:
1. You only want two 1080p cameras
2. Monitor inside the building while your group is present
3. Be able to ID someone if required
4. ease of use
5. be able to pack it up every weekend
6. ability to keep video for 6 months
7. expect to generate 12 hours of video each month per camera
8. ability to review videos

So a few questions:
Is this a single room? How big is it? Depending on how big it is you may need more than two cameras to be able to get a face ID. Do you need internet connectivity? How will you mount cameras? Just sitting on like a table or desktop?
We want the cameras out in the hallway in front of the room where we meet. That's where the police officer is. One end of the hallway is locked and so people can only enter down the other side. I'm thinking the second camera would point down the locked hallway - doors can be forced open.

About internet, I'm not completely sure what we need. We don't need to monitor anything, just record it and, very rarely, look back at the last few minutes or the last 6 months. So, an NVR with the ability to look back would cover everything.

The cameras will have to be temporarily mounted. So just sitting on something or with a spring clamp. We can't mount them permanently. I think this is what makes this a bit unusual.

Avoid Wifi....always.
Could you please explain why? I assume it's for preventing someone hacking into the camera. Would limiting the MAC addresses take care of that?

That said, wifi reliability is an issue I won't depend on. I'd rather have enough storage wired to the camera that if the wifi fails the camera still records.
 

area651

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This is for a religious congregation. In a nutshell, we're less worried about vandalism then being shot. We haven't had any issues, and we want to keep it that way.
Don't take this the wrong way (I don't want to make it political) but putting a camera in your church isn't going to prevent or stop anything. It's just going to record it if it happens. (which we obviously hope & pray it doesn't).

If you're concerned in any way about violence, simply recording it when it happens isn't going to prevent it.

Stay safe!
 

MattR

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Don't take this the wrong way (I don't want to make it political) but putting a camera in your church isn't going to prevent or stop anything. It's just going to record it if it happens. (which we obviously hope & pray it doesn't).

If you're concerned in any way about violence, simply recording it when it happens isn't going to prevent it.

Stay safe!
Not political at all. It's also why we have a police officer there. There are other things going on besides this camera system - this is my part of it. Recording it is actually to help find someone that might be thinking of doing something bad or has attempted to do something bad and got turned away. It has stopped a few people from "coming back another day" in other locations.
 
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We always say not to use WIFI cameras for a few reasons. Yes, hacking/defeating them can be an issue, but mostly it is that they tend to loose connection a lot. My thinking here is that if you had the cameras and the WIFI access point within a small area and had line of sight, you may not have a connection issue. Hell most doorbell cameras are WIFI and many folks here use them. If you do not mind running the cables on the floor, you could still do what I proposed using the same cameras but wire them with Cat5e to a cheap switch connected to the laptop.
 

looney2ns

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Temporary cam mounts.
 
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