Hikvision 5.2.5 firmware compatible NVR?

joshmac

n3wb
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Hi everyone,

I have previously purchased 6x DS-2CD2532's which are connected to my home network and are running excellent. I now want to start using a dedicated NVR.
The cameras have the multi-language 5.2.5 firmware that cannot be upgraded (tried one, learned my lesson). So I am cautious in purchasing a NVR fearing that it wont be compatible.
I have found the Hikvision DS-7608NI-I2/8P seams to tick my boxes nicely and I have found one on aliexpress that is advertised as the "Original Overseas" version.
I was on the payment screen when I had the thought.
Can someone tell me if it will work with my cameras?
http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/eWvTKGu

Thank you in advance,
Josh
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
430
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
Do you really need any features that the I2 model offers?

I don't believe anyone on this forum is currently running one (as least not one that speaks up). They're a new NVR that has just come out and last time I looked only 2 sellers on Ali were selling them.

Generally people run the 7608NI-E2 and 7608N-E2 (including 7604/7616 etc) it's a proven system and what most people run.

The I2 supports H265 which the 2532 doesn't support anyways so that's nothing, the I2 will handle 3MP but so will the E2. If you want to be the guinea pig for the I2 that's fair enough.
 

joshmac

n3wb
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Hi Michelin Man,
Thanks for taking the time to respond.

My main reason for wanting the I2 is that it can handle more than 6ch @ 1080p, which appears to be a common spec among most of the 76xx NVR in that range. The I2 appears to accept 8/16 ch @ 1080. I have 6 at the moment but I do plan to add another 2532 and possibly 2202 mini PTZ or similar. My main concern is the statement from the seller "original overseas version". I'm hoping that it means it will be multilingual like my other cams and that "original" doesn't mean Chinese only. Its the only thing stopping me from pressing that send payment button.

Thanks again,
Josh
 

Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
430
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
Ahh yess, forgot about that. That was also one of my reasons I wanted to get the I2 model it also has the greater outgoing bandwidth (256mbps vs 80mbps) However, I just recently got my 7608NI-E2 so it seems a bit of a hassle to sell it and yeah. The other thing I remembered was when I was looking to buy one I only found two sellers, and both of them said I needed to wait 25 days after placing the order before they'd even get it as they'd have to order it from Hikvision. I also asked for the non-POE model, However it seems whether or not its the more common POE model or non POE all of them had to be ordered. You may want to check with your seller if you have to wait.

The NI model which the one in the link says it is, is the international model so no problem with firmware updates and the such. You shouldn't need to anyways, not with 5.2.5 camera firmware anyways.

As long as the cameras are hacked to english you should have no problems. Although at the same time, no one I know runs an I2 model so you may be one of the first.
 

Del Boy

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
294
Location
UK - England
Don't worry about the outgoing bandwidth. It's unlikely (very very) that your viewing device will support 6ch @ 1080p.

Get the DS-7608NI-E2/8P - mult-lingual means it's Chinese-version. Ask the seller before buying!
 

joshmac

n3wb
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
I will check with them regarding the odd wait time, thanks for the heads up.
I have a great seller on eBay I deal with I might check with them and ask if I can buy it through them.
Why go for the non-POE version over the POE version?
The wait time gives me the chance to seek written permission for more cameras from the Woman In-charge of Financial Enquiries (W.I.F.E for short). So far my applications have all been approved, so fingers crossed.

I'm not worried about as much as viewing all 6ch at once at 1080, but more recording in the best quality I possibly can on each channel, so when viewing once at a time, its in 1080. Its more of a go as high as I can now for futureproofingness.
 

joshmac

n3wb
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Thanks Del Boy,

I may have understood the spec sheets as I'm new to the NVR game, all previous installs were analog.
Just to clarify, the decoding capability on the E2's says 6ch @ 1080p, does this mean that each channel records at 1080 with a maximum of 6 cameras(my thoughts), or 6ch at a total combined res of 1080?
 

Del Boy

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
294
Location
UK - England
I will check with them regarding the odd wait time, thanks for the heads up.
I have a great seller on eBay I deal with I might check with them and ask if I can buy it through them.
Why go for the non-POE version over the POE version?
The wait time gives me the chance to seek written permission for more cameras from the Woman In-charge of Financial Enquiries (W.I.F.E for short). So far my applications have all been approved, so fingers crossed.

I'm not worried about as much as viewing all 6ch at once at 1080, but more recording in the best quality I possibly can on each channel, so when viewing once at a time, its in 1080. Its more of a go as high as I can now for futureproofingness.
DS-7608NI-E2/8P will be able to record all at 1080p no problem at all. I normally recommend the PoE version as it's cheaper for most people.

Futureproofingness, don't over think this because none of us have any idea what Hikvision might do. I'm not convinced they are going to do H.265 for International anytime soon.
 

Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
430
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
Why go for the non-POE version over the POE version?

I'm not worried about as much as viewing all 6ch at once at 1080, but more recording in the best quality I possibly can on each channel, so when viewing once at a time, its in 1080. Its more of a go as high as I can now for futureproofingness.
Using a POE switch gives you a few advantages, The NON-POE NVR I believe uses an external power supply so no inbuilt fan. Even with a POE NVR the NVR will run quieter with no load on the POE ports until the unit gets warm. In which case the fan spins its nuts off.

The other advantage is the cameras can be accessed individually (without the need for virtual host), and they can access the internet if they need to. IE email alerts, time sync, configuration etc.

You can run all the cameras to the poe switch, and then only run a single cable back to the NVR/Network so you don't need to run all 8 or 16 or even 32 camera cables back to the NVR.

You can record at 3MP if you wanted to. You just have to set the bitrate as to not exceed the limit. You lose width when you record in 3MP as opposed to 2MP/1080p.
 

Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
430
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
Thanks Del Boy,

Just to clarify, the decoding capability on the E2's says 6ch @ 1080p, does this mean that each channel records at 1080 with a maximum of 6 cameras(my thoughts), or 6ch at a total combined res of 1080?
I'm a bit lost on this as well. It doesn't mean recording quality though, that is limited by the incoming bandwidth and number of 'ports' it supports.

I believe the decoding capacity means the NVRs ability to display 6 cameras at a max of 1080p resolution (quality in this case) for each camera on the whole output.

Because you can view all cameras on lower quality on one screen.
 

joshmac

n3wb
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
I plan on putting the NVR in a more accessible location, so I only wanted to run the 1 cable to the NVR from the switch not 9. That's actually what I wanted todo as I was already running a 24 port GB smart switch in the ceiling, I ran my current 6 cams to POE port injector and then from that directly to the switch. Doing everything over, I would have just purchased a 24 port GB POE smart switch in the first place...

I'm not sure if its all IP cams, but the 2532s I have are broadcasting a tonne of packets that was flooding my previous switches bandwidth, not an issue since I replaced it with a smart switch however. Normal?

Del Boy believes the DS-7608NI-E2/8P can handle all 8 cams at 1080p, and if its a reliable proven unit that has been around for a bit its a very good option. My only reason for going with the I2 in the first place was the extra bandwidth and there is only about $120 difference between the I2 and the E2 NVR. I have checked the feedback for the one on aliexpress and there is only 1 person feedback for the seller, so I'm a bit skeptical about buying from them.

If my eBay seller can get them, Ill definitely get the I2 otherwise ill go with the non-POE E2.
 

Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
430
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
You could get a POE midspan if money allows, or you find one cheap.

Hmmm. That is interesting. Did you use wireshark to see what it's actually doing?

The 7608NI-E2 will handle 8 cameras at 3MP, most run them at 2MP/1080p. I just set each camera to 6144kbps bitrate, the quality seems better even though some say it's not noticeable. At 6144kbps it will be just under the 50mbps incoming bandwidth of the 7608. Although could be bumped up to 80mbps with firmware (haven't tested this yet).

The I2 is fairly new. So yeah. Most people just don't want to take the risk.

If you do end up getting either of them in non-POE please report back if it has an external power supply with no internal fan. I do believe the size of the unit is not 1U width on the non-POE models.
 

joshmac

n3wb
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
I'm using a port injector I found on eBay. WS-POE-8-48v60W injector from Wi-fi Texas, after conversion and postage was about $60 and a 24 port GB smart switch from TP-link 160 from Scorptec.

I'm pretty sure it was wireshark that I used, it was a while ago. But the TL-SG1024DE smart switch shows me a port analysis anyway, not in as much detail though.
 

DemonicHawk

Young grasshopper
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
78
Reaction score
37
Location
Canada
The 7608NI-E2 will handle 8 cameras at 3MP, most run them at 2MP/1080p. I just set each camera to 6144kbps bitrate, the quality seems better even though some say it's not noticeable. At 6144kbps it will be just under the 50mbps incoming bandwidth of the 7608. Although could be bumped up to 80mbps with firmware (haven't tested this yet).
What is your sub-stream bitrate? I was always under the impression that your bandwidth usage is the sum of your main-stream bitrate + sub-stream bitrate..

I have 6 cameras at 3MP, 20fps, 7168kbps on my 7608. When I tested the 3.3.4 firmware, I was able to run them at 3MP, 20fps, 10240kbps no problem at all, but I think I started having a bunch of record exceptions when I bumped it up any higher.

Also, a lot of people neglect to mention their FPS when talking about bitrate so it's hard to compare, but I don't think 7168kbps is even enough for me. Playing around with ROI, I can easily see how much more detail I could have if the bitrate was higher.
 

Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
430
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
It might be, no idea. I only have 3 cameras at the moment, didn't have any spare cash to buy anymore. I run them at full framerate and CBR, never tested the actual bitrate coming out vs varying conditions.

I don't see how substream affects the NVR as the NVR only records off the stream you set which should be the main stream. Then again, Hikvision stuff doesn't make much sense.

With 3.3.4 firmware the NVR's incoming bandwidth would have been upped to 80mbps.

Those calculations do make sense though.
 

Del Boy

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
294
Location
UK - England
The DS-7608NI-E2/8P can record 8-channel at 1080p no-problem, and 8-channel at 3MP also no-problem.

It can't simultaneously playback 8-channel at 1080p, but that's not an issue because unless you full-screen a single camera you will get 8-channel at sub-stream. You don't need 8-channel at 1080p live playback, because you don't own 8 x 1080p monitors or a system capable or doing that either.

The Max bandwidth is 80megabits/s, so you need to keep the combined bandwidth below 80. The calculation IIRC (isn't simply main + subs) is sum of mainstreams + sum of substreams + (sum of subtreams / 2).

I wouldn't go for the I2 at the moment if the price difference was zero, let alone $120. But that's me. Will be nice when you get one and let us all know :)
 

DemonicHawk

Young grasshopper
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
78
Reaction score
37
Location
Canada
I thought about it a bit more and you're right that it's a bit strange and doesn't really make sense. The reason I believe that the substream also contributes to the incoming bandwidth is because of the page/screen (net detect or something?) that shows you your calculated bandwidth usage. On that page, Hikvision's calculation indeed takes into account the sub-stream bitrate. As a side note, I don't know why that information isn't available on the web-interface. If you tried to set a bitrate higher than your remaining bitrate on the NVR (main-stream or substream), it would show you "Not enough incoming bandwidth" or something to that degree.

That's for 3.1.0 though. On 3.3.4, Hikvision included on the NVR camera management page what I believe is the "actual" bitrate. So when I had it set to 10240kbps CBR, the page would show fluctuations between 9000-11000kbps. Giving a total (main-stream+substream) bitrate higher than 80mbps.

So in conclusion.. I have no idea. :laugh:

The Max bandwidth is 80megabits/s, so you need to keep the combined bandwidth below 80. The calculation IIRC (isn't simply main + subs) is sum of mainstreams + sum of substreams + (sum of subtreams / 2).
That's interesting, do you recall where you saw that? I'm pretty sure I'd be over the 50Mbps limit then for my NVR with 7168kbps mainstream + 1024kbps substream.

Then again, I don't know how they raised the limit from 50Mbps to 80Mbps and if there were any actual bottlenecks removed to do so.
 

Michelin Man

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
430
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
Hikvision documentation is lacking to say the least. Then again, the price we pay for these things we can't complain too much.

When I checked before the, processor inside the 7608NI-E2 series NVR is the same as the one that is in a 7816 NVR, I think it was alastairstevenson who had the 7816. Not sure what else is the same/different. Could be as simple as making things more efficient.

I would experiment with you guys, but I don't have enough cameras, Unless someone wants to send me some :p
 

carpii

n3wb
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
27
Reaction score
2
I now want to start using a dedicated NVR.
I have found the Hikvision DS-7608NI-I2/8P seams to tick my boxes nicely
What features are you looking for in the NVR?
I have the DS-7608NI-I2/8P, fitted out with 8Tb storage.

Initially I was very happy with it, but as I've dug deeper, Im finding its quite inflexible, and some features are somewhat stupid in the way they operate.

Main complaints...
- Very poor Mac support (there is Mac software which is ok to use as a viewer, but not suitable to configure the cams or NVR. Likewise many of the browser plugins supplied by Hikvision are no longer compatible with modern browsers)
- iPad and iPhone software are pretty good for viewing, but despite reading all their tutorials, I cannot get push alerts to work in any way
- Motion detection is very difficult to configure in a way that doesn't produce lots of false alarms. You can set it up to email you with 3 thumbnail images attached every time it triggers, but the images are so small as to be unusable.
- You can set intrusion detection (polygon zones) which does a much better job of detecting without false alarms. Unfortunately you cant even email thumbnail images using this feature, it just sends a basic text email with the date and time, so you then have to go and seek to the exact time in the viewer software
- The documentation is cryptic and confusing. Cams can do motion detection but the NVR can also. Its never very clear which feature is being performed by the cam and which is being done by the NVR
- Finally, my NVR is recording 24/7. When viewing a cams recording timeline it just appears as a solid blue bar always. I was really hoping motion detection and intrusion incidents would appear on that bar in different colors, so you can just seek to them, but it all has to be done manually by clicking repeatedly until you find the time which matches an email alert. It could have been done so much better :/

I'm now considering setting up a Windows PC and seeing what Blue Iris can do for me. Just thought Id chip in with my opinion before you buy hastily like I did
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Del Boy

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
294
Location
UK - England
What features are you looking for in the NVR?
I have the DS-7608NI-I2/8P, fitted out with 8Tb storage.

Initially I was very happy with it, but as I've dug deeper, Im finding its quite inflexible, and some features are somewhat stupid in the way they operate.

Main complaints...
- Very poor Mac support (there is Mac software which is ok to use as a viewer, but not suitable to configure the cams or NVR. Likewise many of the browser plugins supplied by Hikvision are no longer compatible with modern browsers)
- iPad and iPhone software are pretty good for viewing, but despite reading all their tutorials, I cannot get push alerts to work in any way
- Motion detection is very difficult to configure in a way that doesn't produce lots of false alarms. You can set it up to email you with 3 thumbnail images attached every time it triggers, but the images are so small as to be unusable.
- You can set intrusion detection (polygon zones) which does a much better job of detecting without false alarms. Unfortunately you cant even email thumbnail images using this feature, it just sends a basic text email with the date and time, so you then have to go and seek to the exact time in the viewer software
- The documentation is cryptic and confusing. Cams can do motion detection but the NVR can also. Its never very clear which feature is being performed by the cam and which is being done by the NVR
- Finally, my NVR is recording 24/7. When viewing a cams recording timeline it just appears as a solid blue bar always. I was really hoping motion detection and intrusion incidents would appear on that bar in different colors, so you can just seek to them, but it all has to be done manually by clicking repeatedly until you find the time which matches an email alert. It could have been done so much better :/

I'm now considering setting up a Windows PC and seeing what Blue Iris can do for me. Just thought Id chip in with my opinion before you buy hastily like I did
You sure you don't have the DS-7608NI-E2/8P ? The I2 is only just out and is a H.265 model.

1) Mac - Use Firefox, poor Mac support is something you hopefully knew before you bought a Mac, this is more a problem for Apple than Hikvision/Dahua or whoever. I expect Windows Edge / Chrome support will follow soon
2) I've only ever got this working with Dahua, I don't think it works
3) All NVRs should give false alarms, if you tune out all the false alarms then you will end up missing a real-event. The e-mails are supposed to be a FYI, the recording is on the NVR
4) Documentation is crap... agreed. NVR can't do motion detection, it's all being done by the camera (if you really wanted to know you could've found out here).

There's enough of us here to help users who need it.

The DS-7608NI-E2/8P is a good NVR but as I've been told, compared to Blue Iris it's not in the same league. But if you want a standalone NVR, it's a great unit.
 
Top