Hikvision local recording to Micro SD SDXC SDHC. Recommendations?

Discussion in 'NVR's, DVR's & Computers' started by icerabbit, Aug 19, 2014.

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  1. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    My current snafu with iVMS-4200 2.02 has me thinking about redundancy. Thought about it in concept, but then was happy with the pc nvr recordings. Except when that fails. I could obviously go to some other networked NVR, record a few streams to a synology ds, or such. But some of the cameras can record internally.

    The domes DS-2CD2732F-IS have a built-in Micro SD/SDHC/SDXC card slot up to 64 GB, it says.

    Obviously more space, faster writing speed, etc is better.

    I was just wondering if Hikvisions are picky when it comes to local storage?
    Any minimum requirements that should be met?
    Are there any cards that might work better? more reliably? long term?

    Given that motion recording is going to be an ongoing activity. I've used a variety of sd compact usb etc cards in the past and for the most part they've worked out fine; but I haven't put one in semi-continuous use. And given that it requires a ladder etc to install and exchange a card ... you get the idea, I'd rather not have to do that every few weeks, months, ...
     
  2. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Ive been happy with Sony Class 10 uSD cards; Ive got a 64GB in my PTZ recording D1 15fps @ highest video quality 24/7 and it almost holds 3 days of video..

    Unfortunately Industrial MicroSD's cards cost a fortune and are hard to find bigger than a few GB; so a standard consumer grade one is your best bet; just dont cheap out on it because the cheapest cards are dog ass slow and a few dollars more is often 3-4x faster.

    You should get more than a few months life out of one; id presume several years of constant recording before blocks start wearing out.. if you figure my setup holds ~3 days then gets overwritten thats only 121 full writes a year; shouldn't hit wear issues for a good while as it should be able to do that a few thousand times.

    My biggest concern about longevity of uSD cards is if they will survive a Colorado winter; you cant get consumer uSD cards that are rated for -40 degrees.. Ive seen it almost get to -20F here in Denver.. however I have Sony SD cards in 2 vehicles that are not garaged and they survived the winter fine.. but thats read-only for music.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2014
  3. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    I have a DS-2CD2532F-IS coming this week, need to order a card and would love to hear more about which cards are working etc. with the Hiks.
    What file format are these cameras using with them?
     
  4. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    Had a quick look at sandisk, sony, samsung, ... Looks like a price fixing scheme with so many brand prices in lockstep at $37. And of course manufacturers list the read speed as transfer speeds with ** write speed lower, and then they don't disclose the **. When I asked Sandisk why, the gal said it was because of the card type being an ultra? So? Then "because they are retail products" ... LOL ... as opposed to ones you don't sell? You got specs for those? ;)

    Anyway, all the class 10 guarantee 10MB/s write (which is enough).

    Almost scored a good price at $30 for each 64 card, but shipping was listed as 7-21 days. meh.

    I'm curious whether the up to 30 48 or more (advertised) read speed would be truthful and help when you network access the little card. But that of course depends on how fast the cameras read.

    Any experience with or insight on that, nayr? ;)
    Thanks.
     
  5. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    I doubt it will help much; when I download a recording over the network off the camera it does not come close to the read speed of the card I am using, or even the worst card I have experienced.. its friggin slow so I am thinking there are other bottlenecks on internal bus speeds to the ethernet.

    10MB/s write is 80Mbit and the camera should not come close to using it... but if you ever need to pull the card out of the camera and image it for any reason then you'll hate trying to copy 64GB of data at slow uSD speeds..

    I always presume the card will outlive the device; they often do.. the slowest/cheapest cards are about worthless for storing media on when it takes an entire day or two to fill it up at its fastest speeds..

    For example my wife and I both have cars with the same head unit in it that takes MP3's off an SD card... I bought me the cheapest slowest one I could because I know playing a mp3 file in realtime is no problem for the slowest of the batch... however trying to fill it up with music and it took all damn night (only a 16gb card) so a while later when I bought one for my wife's car I spent a few dollars more and was able to copy the exact same music collection over in a fraction of the time... It was worth it.. I toss new songs/albums onto her card all the time because its quick and painless; mine not so much..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014
  6. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    That's what I kind of thought might be the case. So much for taking advantage of "edge recording". One would pretty much have to use it as a backup, or if one frequently wants to check recordings or has a mix of local and edge, have extra patience when you are trying to look for a certain time frame.

    I tend to be impatient when it comes to copying of bits and bytes, loading, rendering, ... ;)
     
  7. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    Flash memory makers seem a little shady in their lack of disclosure on specs to say the least.
    Any opinions on Item# 9SIA12K1264180 at the egg?
     
  8. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Ive got a SanDisk Ultra in my CuBox and I am not happy with it; my Sony C10 cards are almost 2x the speed at pretty much the same price.
     
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  9. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    Any idea which model number you're using?
     
  10. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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  11. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    Ordered, thank you!
     
  12. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    Amazon finally price matched the 64GB Samsung evo a bit lower, so ordered a few of those.

    Debated back & forth whether to do it or not. But, I'm still waiting for resolution of my ivms issue, have two cams recording on another system, decided I just need to get some storage cards installed and go for dual recording.

    Does the option for local recording come up under motion detection, once you add a card?
    Right now it only has a few options, under events to notify surveillance center, ftp, email, trigger channel.
    No direct indication you could do dual.
     
  13. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    my dahua cameras wont do dual; the'll only FTP or Local (or failover to local if FTP fails) but not both.. not sure about the Hik's but it is probably the same situation.
     
  14. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    I guess I should have looked into that more before ordering a bunch. :eek:h:

    But I do recall reading on the NCC blog about doing dual, which was a plus on the 2732 ... I'll have to wait and see.
     
  15. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    NCC said they'd dual record?
    I'm even less up to speed, some where I thought I'd read they were good if the NVR/NAS got stolen (assumed dual recording) and also the NAS share being useful for accessing the file system if using the FTP-less Hik firmware.
    Let me know how the Samsung work out?
    Still waiting on a slow boat from China for the camera here...
     
  16. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    Took me a bit to find the snippet, read the article, skimmed the comments, repeat, ...

    Comment #73 and 74 at http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=1968

    My hope (?) is that if you have the pcnvr or anything setup looking at the cameras, that trigger channel continues to work on what one has setup.

    Cards should arrive today. Depending on which truck amz put them on it could be 9am, lunch or random when they get here. Then another step in the surveillance adventure / puzzle whether it'll work. Hopefully I won't drop these and lose the little buggers from 8-10 ft up into the shrubs and mulch like those little grounding screws. At least the card are orange :) And maybe start with the easiest one ;)
     
  17. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    #73 #74?
    http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=1968#comment-7830

    I wonder if the NVR will work?
     
  18. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    Two above that, this link: http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=1968#comment-7826 (couldn't fetch that url on the ipad, pc is handier ;) )

    But yes, that was what I recalled, there was a dual option, in this comment conversation (copying for completeness):

    I hope it works, otherwise I have a few cards that I won't be able to utilize as intended.

    AMZ sent it UPS SurePost * which is the earliest delivery out, because I' at the beginning of this carrier's route, so I'm about to find out very shortly.

    ( * which I don't like in general due to mishaps and the fact it tacks on 1-2 days onto ground shipping and usually is not disclosed as suc , ... but AMZ's recent switch to send me stuff surepost gets it to me about 4 hours earlier :) )

    My only twitch is that my iVMS 4200 v2.02 is still not recording. Hkv asked for some logs to be analyzed. Anyway. I may not know conclusively unless I whip up another install of ivms. We'll see and try to figure it out.
     
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  19. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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  20. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    Well, I'm about to get the ladder out ... crossing fingers.

    Just ran a couple quick tests on the 64GB Samsung Evo SDXC card. Bit tricky to gauge the speed as my usual tool with real time data flow fuel gauge is giving me a java headache under the next version of OSX. So, had to find some poor substitute.

    Anyway, it looks like sustained

    + write speed in the 18-19MB/s range, depending on how much data you push, smaller files write faster (buffering?), in the end it gave me average of 18.8MB/s when it completed the single 5GB file

    + read speed in the 45MB/s range, finishing with avg 45.5MB/s when it completed copying that 5GB file back to the system

    Copy to and from was using a core i7 mac with SSD. May play around with some other stuff later to have a look. But so far, I'm happy with the above numbers. Now let's see if hikv will keep it that way???
     
  21. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    Fingers crossed, word is my slow boat may dock today...
     
  22. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    As you might have guessed I wasn't right back. Nothing is as simple as it seems in my ipcam endeavor.

    Physical stuff is pretty easy. If you can add the card before you mount the cam is of course easiest.

    Had to take the dome off, obviously, remove black shroud, had to horizontally rotate the camera out of the way as the right side curved arm was in my way to insert the card (counted indent clicks left so I could do the opposite later and have camera back where it was), the orientation is depicted next to the slot, card slides in nicely, it clicks, if you push in again it'll neatly unclick.

    Then went in through the browser. Advanced configuration. It saw the card. Had to format it. During the format the screen hung semi-dimmed /did not refresh. Clicked on another tab and back. Still said formatting. Probably for another 5 min or so. Once done it was ready. Capacity 58.5GB. Available 57.5GB.

    Options for picture and video capacity don't work. Changed it to 5% - 95% no dice. 10% 90% ... So right it looks like unless I reformat maybe that 14GB is reserved for pictures I don't take???

    Using some expert motion settings it didn't record. (probably operator error) Using basic ones it made several recordings to the sdxc.

    Recordings were fine. Playback was fine. No delays. Stutter. Skips. Etc over cat6 LAN in the browser under playback. Then it has the calendar on the right and motion time segments indicated on the bottom. Takes it two secs to load the page over wifi on a netbook, playback is a bit slow. No big deal. Sure that has to do with cpu power and signal strength. Might take longer once there are more and more clips over the course of days, weeks, ...

    iVMS ...

    Went back to playing with iVMS and discovered that some of the "template" settings for recording were odd, like set to 1 or 2, even though I had all day event set before. Messed around with that some. Now I'm back to writing to the recording pcnvr drive! Huray. Don't need the sd cards any more ... sigh.

    The only thing I'm not sure now, relative to the dome with the sdxc card in it, is whether iVMS for review pulls from the hard drive or the sdxc card. Can't tell among the network traffic overview and hard drive activity. I would hope it does it locally from the HDD, but does it? Tried to look on the pcnvr recording drive. No new clips yet with today's date? I guess the close to 8000 files in there at 256MB a piece are place holders from the time you formatted the drive for use with ivms, and then as needed it fills in clips in the those blocks. As I've got nothing dated today, even though all cameras have been triggered by me or wind in the trees & shrubs. Anyway. The way iVMS is setting up that storage drive, I can't readily see whatever was recorded in the last hour, two hours ... to find a duplicate of the sdxc clip. Seems the drive space allocation is different then one sees with a regular camera that stores pictures and clips as needed one after another with the current time date stamp.

    Now I'm back to a little bit of another issue that's plagued me before with iVMS, and I wonder if it has something to do with more than one system looking at streams, dual recording ... If there are ten clips on SDXC and when I first had three, in the browser those were instant, crisp, fps fine, etc. In iVMS seeing 10 recordings, the same first three play fine - which should only be on the SDXC - the the later ones are stop motion? So I figured, OK, let iVMS and the other channels be. Download clips to desktop. Play in VLC ... except vlc plays the first frame for 30 secs (sigh) ... LOL ... and thus this saga / adventure / time sinkhole continues ;)

    Anyhow:

    The Samsung 64GB EVO cards work. May just encounter a space allocation glitch in configuration panel with regards to picture/video.

    As far as dual. I think it is doing it. I just triggered motion. Walked in the door. Refreshed the playback log screen, or click another tab and back into playback, and the clip is there, local recording on sdxc ... and playback is fine. So it does local on camera fine.

    And I think edge recording, on camera storage only, may work too, all on camera local flash recording without a hard drive in iVMS, but iVMS quirks certainly aren't helping. And extra documentation on some details would help.

    To be continued? ;)
     
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  23. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    My 64GB card formated to: 59953.3M

    Its normal; storage manufacturers refuse to use base-8 when dealing with bits.. instead of 1MB = 1024kbits they are assholes and 1MB = 1000kbits... this makes actual capacities much lower than advertised capacities; and then you add in overhead from the file-system its self.
     
  24. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    I hate the storage manufacturers for that. The difference just keeps on growing as we move up in capacity. Even back when the gap was smaller, it stunk, because storage space was so expensive.

    I was just including it for completeness, really, so others remember that 64GB will hold a chunk less. A huge chunk, actually, from 64GB down to 57GB is about 1/8th! Then you see the vms allocation hump, where it decides to pre-allocate 14GB to pictures (?!) you're down to 43 ... that's a lot of capacity going out the window. And, that thing with the allocation didn't sit well. Figured they must have wanted the quota set first, rather than allowing allocation after the fact. So I decided to format again.

    This time I changed the quota % FIRST (lower on the screen, can't set GB) to 2% & 98% and then pushed format (higher on the screen).
    Screen again gets a grey overlay and the counter is indicating progress actually. May have missed that the first time around on the pc, fearing the browser locked up.

    Now I get 1GB even for pictures and 57GB even for video. That's more like it.

    The wind moving tree branch shadows across the driveway had already eaten up 4GB this afternoon, so there goes the idea that the 64gb card may take a couple weeks to fill up. LOL.
     
  25. catseyenu

    catseyenu Getting the hang of it

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    Sony 64GB microSDXC Class 10 UHS-1 took 3 minutes to format,
    58GB available.

    awot4m.jpg
     
  26. icerabbit

    icerabbit Getting the hang of it

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    Yes, it takes a bit of time to format the card.

    I looked at a few clips from the past night. I just so happened to default at midnight with three raccoons walking through! Without previous next button I had to scrub back, and oddly enough, right before that one of our cats was out, and made a u turn before the raccoons came minutes later. Figured I wanted to retain the raccoon clip and then remembered I still wanted to see the transfer speed out of the camera, so downloaded those two clips.

    Transfer speed out of the camera is about 2.4MB/s.
     
  27. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    [​IMG]

    :eek:nthego:


    anyone got $800 for a memory card? :D
     
  28. DavidO

    DavidO n3wb

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    Sandisk does have additional model lines besides the Ultra line. See the Extreme Plus model which has faster read/write, a lifetime warranty and it's even a little cheaper than the Sony card linked in this thread: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DM1BDPK/
    A reviewer of the Sony card said it has a 1 year warranty while the Australian Sony site says 5 years and the US Sony site is missing specifications.

    I did a calculation before for how long a card should last with continuous writing in an IP camera application based on the some memory endurance specs I found. It was something like 460 years.

    The Sandisk Extreme Plus is rated for the same minimum operating temperature as the Sony (-25C), but it's also rated for a minimum storage temperature of -40C. I didn't see a storage temp spec for the Sony. Keep in mind that your device (IP camera) can have an effect on the operating environment. Cameras have lower minimum continuous operating temperatures than start-up temperatures. You can also get Hikvision cameras with heaters that will operate in -40C. I expect that the memory card will also work in those conditions because it will be heated by the camera.
     
  29. Cossie

    Cossie Young grasshopper

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    I'm having frame drop issue with 64GB Samsung Evo Plus. Even in 8mbit medium recording. Has anyone have the same problem?
     
  30. beepsilver

    beepsilver Getting the hang of it

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    I have these in all my Hiks: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-micro...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00

    I drop frames all the time but I do record 4MP @20fps @8192 bitrate. I haven't tried lowering the resolution, etc., to lessen the strain on the cards. I wonder if the Sony brand could handle the recordings any better.