HOA Approvals for camera installation

[cornholio]

My HOA is concerned about approving my camera. They're saying its big, creepy (with motion tracking) and aesthetically not pleasing. This is the Dahua SD59225U-HNI.

This is a newly constructed community and I was the first one to reach out for approval. They are looking to set a precedent with my case. They don't want everyone in the community to install large motion detecting cameras. They hadn't set the guidelines (when I installed it) and are looking to start establishing guidelines and firmer restrictions now. Few others have installed Arlos, Nests, etc.

They are going to decide in the next HOA meeting a month away.

I really want to keep the camera. What can I do? I'm looking for options and arguments.

 

[gordo]

If you are serious about the camera, consult an attorney. If there were no guidelines for security camera installation, maybe you can be grandfathered in.
This is one reason why I searched for non HOA neighborhoods when home shopping.

 

[bigredfish]

I'm on the board of an HOA- couple of things:
1- If they dont have it specified in the covenants, it will be hard for them to legally enforce
2- If they allow some cameras, but not yours, they will find it hard to legally enforce. Consistency is a key issue with HOA rules
3- They should embrace residents wanting to help protect their community. Many HOA's, ours included, install cameras themselves.
4- Always easier to ask for forgiveness than approval. I wouldnt have asked them in the first place.

We have 5 HOA cams at the entrance and cul-de-sac as well as my own and a couple of other homeowners. We also have big hunkin signs at the entrance that say the Neighborhood is under video surveillance.

I've yet to talk with a homeowner that is opposed to them. The local LE likes them too. They've caught 3 burglars using the video as evidence in the past few years.

Here's the tour of our little neighborhood with 7 cameras capturing you. There are 3 more that aren't obvious.
HOA cams

 

[cornholio]

I'm on the board of an HOA- couple of things:
1- If they dont have it specified in the covenants, it will be hard for them to legally enforce
2- If they allow some cameras, but not yours, they will find it hard to legally enforce. Consistency is a key issue with HOA rules
3- They should embrace residents wanting to help protect their community. Many HOA's, ours included, install cameras themselves.
4- Always easier to ask for forgiveness than approval. I wouldnt have asked them in the first place.

We have 5 HOA cams at the entrance and cul-de-sac as well as my own and a couple of other homeowners. We also have big hunkin signs at the entrance that say the Neighborhood is under video surveillance.

I've yet to talk with a homeowner that is opposed to them. The local LE likes them too. They've caught 3 burglars using the video as evidence in the past few years.

Here's the tour of our little neighborhood with 7 cameras capturing you. There are 3 more that aren't obvious.
HOA cams

That's what I did. Asked for forgiveness. They insist that it will be hard to say no to similar requests in the future. They asked the participating members at the HOA meeting how they would feel if everyone got a camera like that. Half of them said they didn't like it. Other half were ok with it. They're asking me to get a smaller camera.

 

[Fastb]

Painting the cam to blend in may help soften the appearance

 

[bigredfish]

May try explaining to them and perhaps even show them the difference between a good cam and a run of the mill poor one?

Most folks have no clue and think that the average box camera set and 2.8mm fixed lens they get at WallyWorld is adequate but we know it isnt typically very good for providing LE with real useful evidence.

Here's three examples of the same druggie car burglar from last month.. Mine is the Starlight in color mode, the others are from a cameras they thought were good enough. After comparing, Nobody gonna say "lets get the cheaper lesser quality cameras"

 

[mat200]

My HOA is concerned about approving my camera. ..

They are going to decide in the next HOA meeting a month away.

I really want to keep the camera. What can I do? I'm looking for options and arguments.

View attachment 20035

I really dislike HOAs since it can just take a few "jerks" on the board to make your life miserable.

I would share the following videos with them:
Two guys stole my security cams :(
Dahua minidome catches guy casing house

I would offer to help draft rules which basically mirror the state rules in terms of respecting the privacy of residents while helping to protect the community.

Recommend finding allies in the community as well as offering a class on how security cameras work and what is useful, including the specifications for IDing suspects and the problems with dome cameras ( so that they do not create rules forcing people to install dome cameras outdoors ).

 

[mat200]

May try explaining to them and perhaps even show them the difference between a good cam and a run of the mill poor one?

Most folks have no clue and think that the average box camera set and 2.8mm fixed lens they get at WallyWorld is adequate but we know it isnt typically very good for providing LE with real useful evidence.

Here's three examples of the same druggie car burglar from last month.. Mine is the Starlight in color mode, the others are from a cameras they thought were good enough. After comparing, Nobody gonna say "lets get the cheaper lesser quality cameras"

Thanks @bigredfish THAT was a great comparison.

 

[DavidDavid]

That is kinda big and creepy haha.

Probably too late now, but could you buy an identical light fixture as the one to the right of the door and modify it to fit the camera mount inside of it so that just the bottom black part of the camera sticks down and is visible? That way it would kinda look like you have two lights (well... Until night time when one isn't "on") but it could be more aesthetic and less noticeable.

Not sure why a hidden camera is less creepy than one in plain sight, but people aren't afraid of the things they can't see/don't know about I guess. Ignorance is bliss maybe.

 

[mat200]

Painting the cam to blend in may help soften the appearance

Indeed painting should help a lot...

Note - Home Depot sells sample size paint - and you can match the stone color to have this camera blend in better.

 

[cornholio]

Thanks all. The HoA decided to not allow PTZ cameras and only allow cameras not more than 8x8x8 inches in size, including all housing. So there.. :-|

Not surprisingly, many have just installed arlos. No one wants to spend money on cabling in a multilevel town home. I've ordered a ipc-hdw5231r-z now.

Anyone interested in taking that SD59225U-HNI from me for a good price? PM me.

 

[bp2008]

I'm sorry to hear that. I would not be compatible with an HoA, for reasons just like that. If I can't do what I want on my own property then why bother owning it in the first place?

You should be able to get PTZs behind a bubble dome (even a tinted dome to make it hard to see inside) that fit within 8x8x8, particularly a partially-recessed model. Those behind a dome don't have built-in IR illumination though and they would definitely have a problem with external IR illuminators larger than a soda can.

This ptz for example, though I don't know if you can get a tinted dome for it. 52C230UNI-A -- Dahua 2MP 25x Starlight PTZ Network Camera No logo SD52C225U HNI Free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

I personally think that red wart on the wall labeled FIRE is much more offensive, but nobody batted an eye about that now did they? In fact, it is probably a required fixture.

 

[DavidDavid]

That sucks. I'm assuming you can't just move it to the backyard? Might not be as useful there though idk

 

[mat200]

HOA sometimes just do not like you.....

 

[cornholio]

IPCamTalk should get this lawyer to join the forum and give its member advice on how to deal with HOAs

 

[Kawboy12R]

Auto tracking is gimmicky and definitely a bit creepy for many people. I bet if the OP's PTZ wasn't auto tracking everybody that walked by they wouldn't have had such a negative reaction. There are many instances where it is useless and will track the wrong thing, causing missed evidence. They're fun but often cause trouble when people think they'll be perfect for every situation. I'd only add one after everything was covered properly with fixed cams. As for neighbor friendliness? Auto tracking is creepy. All it would take is one parent thinking you're live tracking their 13yr old daughter every day on her way home from school and you turn into the neighbourhood perv.

 

[cam235]

The HOA is reacting to the "seems creepy" perception. I chose to live in a non-HOA area for reasons like this, but my wife objected to auto-tracking with the same reasoning. It didn't seem like the best idea to me anyway, given the chance to miss important activity. But you can get as good or better images with continual coverage using enough fixed cameras. If they are painted to match the mounting location, and look similar to existing features they don't stand out much. You can get working porch light fixtures which also have built-in cameras.

 

[cornholio]

The HOA is reacting to the "seems creepy" perception. I chose to live in a non-HOA area for reasons like this, but my wife objected to auto-tracking with the same reasoning. It didn't seem like the best idea to me anyway, given the chance to miss important activity. But you can get as good or better images with continual coverage using enough fixed cameras. If they are painted to match the mounting location, and look similar to existing features they don't stand out much. You can get working porch light fixtures which also have built-in cameras.

That’s it really, that it “feels” creepy. I can argue as much as I want about the legality of it or that it’s the same as me standing on the road with a camera. Truth is that if I was on the other side I’d think it was creepy too. However, I see package thefts all the time and I sincerely think this camera helps prevent it. They can argue all they want by saying that the thieves are smarter, that they can hide their faces well. The truth is that it’s the creepy camera that keeps them away.

 

[cam235]

I'd agree that could well be. Hmm.. on Halloween, I rigged up a skull in the yard on a servomotor and ran the remote control from inside at the window. I controlled it by hand to turn so it would always face the kids as they walked up to the door. Not everyone noticed it, but those who did all said it was creepy. Does the HOA have rules about a porch gargoyle with a moving head ?

 

[Kawboy12R]

Put a gargoyle head over the AT camera so they think it's just a gag and not quite so creepy. Problem solved!