Home Automation, Lights and Locks.

Discussion in 'Home Automation' started by jesseallen, Jul 27, 2016.

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  1. jesseallen

    jesseallen n3wb

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    Hey this is my second post here. My dad has gone berserk with upgrading/adding to our home security and automation setup. Last month he got our cameras upgraded and now is looking for some good brands for automation. The research work has been assigned to me and so far I've covered Cisco, Leviton for lights and network stuff and Kwikset for locks. How many of you use/have used these or seen them in action? I also found an online store for Kwikset and Leviton (discounts) so would like some recommendations on those. Thank you.
     
  2. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    ZWave is what you want.. if its not Z-Wave, dont bother.

    I use domoticz as my logic engine, but ifyou want something more plug'n'play i hear SmartThings hub is a nice off the shelf logic engine.
     
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  3. tangent

    tangent Getting comfortable

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    Your post implies you have an existing security / automation system (beyond cameras). For better advice, please describe your current system(s) and the house (age, sq footage, number of floors).

    Unless you have something worth reusing / adapting already in the house, zwave is the protocol that makes the most sense, but UBP works well too.
     
  4. marid2apterbilt

    marid2apterbilt Young grasshopper

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    Ive got numerous zwave outlets n relays installed, work great thru my alarm system and alarm.com. Thermostat too..

    3 Schlage digital locks although there not smart home connected. also a ct100 thermostat that's zwave. only issue is I've has 2 zwave ge outlets stop working. most of my other zwave relays are AOtech inwall relays.
    Check out aeotech for all sorts of sensors.

    If u go as suggested for zwave.
     
  5. jesseallen

    jesseallen n3wb

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    Thank you for the suggestions. The house isn't very old, and we had a renovation done about two years ago. And our existing system consists of network surveillance cameras. We haven't started with automation yet.

    My dad is pondering over zigbee instead of z-wave(as if he would do any work), so does anyone have a first hand experience with the technologies?

    Are Schalge better as compared to Kwikset? We are getting are setup done by Security Store USA and they have recommended Kwikset (perhaps there is some partnership) and they look good to me.
     
  6. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Schalge > Kwikset

    Zigbee is a cluster fuck, no guarantee another Zigbee device will communicate with your existing ones.. do some googling on Z-Wave vs Zigbee
     
  7. marid2apterbilt

    marid2apterbilt Young grasshopper

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    I'm sure things have changed in the realm of digital locks and deadbolts so best u do some recent inquiry on the subject.

    At the time, several years ago....
    Kwikset was one of the first to be reported as hacked. Mostly due to there use of only 5 buttons. I couldn't find any info on the schlage getting hacked. just for added precaution I didn't go with the wireless / connected versions. My entry codes for the locks are different from the alarm system. Even if they hack the lock they then have to figure out the alarm code. :)

    One thing to note, schlage offers a manual or antilock version door handle. the manual version you can physically turn the unlock knob on the inside so door stays unlocked or leave in locked position and it will require the code each time for entry to room or house.

    All of mine can be overridden with a master key, the new ones I've seen at Lowe's don't have a master key.
    With any key lock there is the potential for bumping.
    Schlage keypad has a 10key face. I recommend setting several codes, you will leave dirt and wear on the keys that will identify the ones used. several people using different codes will make this very difficult. imagine this with Kwikset if you only have 5 keys to pick from.

    There have been reports of the schlage locks malfunctioning breaking or dislodging a pin inside. of my 3 and 1 a friend has installed I have not encountered this issue.

    For best prices amazon has the door handle version for $89.99 via email notification every few months. also the best everyday prices I found.
     
  8. jesseallen

    jesseallen n3wb

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    Thanks for the information. I haven't been around a good internet connection for the past few weeks and hence the late reply. In this while, I've managed to convince my dad for Z-wave and Schlage for the door locks. He was actually quite adamant on Kwikset's smartcode touch-based locks and on his spending spree got it as well. As if he'll add a second door. We have finally settled on a plan with our vendor/installer combination company and the deals are done. So thank you once again for all the help.
     
  9. traymay21

    traymay21 n3wb

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    Glad i bumped into this thread. We just moved so need to get all of these. Thanks for all the info.
     
  10. tangent

    tangent Getting comfortable

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  11. Masejoer

    Masejoer Getting the hang of it

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    Schlage's z-wave lockset cylinders are also easy to open. The lock is only one small part of a secure system. I don't trust it alone for anything.

    I use a Schlage with their typical Type C, 5 Pin cylinder, with replacement pins and two springs. Still possible for me to unlock it without the correct key, but a bit more difficult than stock. It's too bad that the more complex cylinder locks are ridiculously expensive, and none available as connected locks.
     
  12. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    nobody picks front door locks when a firmly planted boot will open almost all of them, in a fraction of the time.
     
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  13. tangent

    tangent Getting comfortable

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    I wasn't talking about picking, but I agree with your sentiment. A properly outfitted socket wrench can open a smart key lock in <10 seconds (the video I liked to takes way too long to communicate this point). If you're handy with a bump key a lot of locks can be opened in <5 seconds. Kicking a door open would take a lot of people more than 10 seconds (a lot of people haven't mastered this skill / the physics involved) and leaves a really nice boot print on the door.

    Actual picks depending on your skill level could take a few minutes by comparison.

    Ultimately locks are only part of the solution.
     
  14. Masejoer

    Masejoer Getting the hang of it

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    And for stronger doors + frames + deadbolts, windows are also very easy to break.

    I'm not concerned with security of a connected lock. Initial deterrents, security system trigger points, and followup alarm deterrents are plenty for most homes. Home invasions aren't typically like carefully orchestrated breakins that movies may portray.
     
  15. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    no but I've seen alot of entries to sheds, back doors, and side garage doors pulled off quite deftly with a swift kick.. the weakest point is just leaving the damn door unlocked on accident and your only as secure as your weakest point, smart lock will at least relock its self so thats a step in the right direction.

    most people dont re-enforce the entry ways until they have been breached, I had my front door kicked in to take an original nintendo and again later I loaned a nintendo 64 to a friend and he got his door kicked in for it.. sigh.
     
  16. Masejoer

    Masejoer Getting the hang of it

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    I had a car broken into 10 years ago. they tore the passenger side lock out the side sheet metal with some bar (and I assume hammer), and tried to get into the empty trunk (and failed - the trunk isn't an easy one to get into). They got some "xenon flashlight" I had in the car and some cheap used Eclipse headunit that was code-locked. There wasn't anything else of value to steal in the first place, other than the entire car. The cost to repair the damage was pretty bad. Was cheapest to get a new door, trunk lid, and get them painted.

    The damage is many times worse than the items taken...
     
  17. FrankOceanXray

    FrankOceanXray Getting the hang of it

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    I leave my urban daily assault vehicle unlocked and with nothing of value in it.. come to think of it the vehicle itself ain't worth much. Sure does run well!

    Any one who wants to steal, damage will. We can only prevent to the best of our abilities. Neighbor once had a grand in damage to her car so they could steal an iphone which was quickly rendered useless remotely. Thieves suck.

    Anyhow, what's up with the HA OP?
     
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  18. Jacksonlee

    Jacksonlee Guest

    Post edited by fenderman to be more direct and clear.

    Hello, I am @Jacksonlee,a spammer and work for locksmithdavie.co I spam forums. This company cannot be trusted as they spam fourms. Stay away from locksmithdavie.co
     
  19. FrankOceanXray

    FrankOceanXray Getting the hang of it

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    Looks like a sham website.... is that David Ducovny giving testimonial to your locksmith?
     
  20. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Getting comfortable

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    Can you give a quick over-view of the pros of z-wave over others? do you know of any BI integration? I'm considering going this way rather than trying to run wires to a sea-level device. I could do a lot more with zwave anyways.
     
  21. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Z-Wave operates on 915MHz ISM; instead of 2.4GHz and 433Mhz.. the former interferes with wifi and the latter interferes with my HAM radio.. I like the band it uses for HomeAutomation use.

    The mesh network w/direct association is nice, associate a contact switch with a light switch and every time the door opens the light come on.. and since it dont have to go through a controller it works even if my automation controller is down and the response time is very respectable.

    They are all interoperable thanks to standards, and do implement some basic security so its not just wide open plain text.. They also have alot of devices, even generic cheap ones and they all seem to work pretty well with eachother.. the more you have the more reliable things seem to get.
     
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  22. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Getting comfortable

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    did not know they work even without the controller, that's awesome, I'm going to research some (basic) blue iris integration to see if I can get zwave motions sensors to trigger blue iris.
     
  23. rnatalli

    rnatalli Young grasshopper

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    I'm using Smartthings with Ecolink sensors, Kwikset locks, and GE switches all on Zwave. There's even a 3rd-party Blue Iris trigger and profile selector that works with ST. I don't use it, but it does exist.
     
  24. vc1234

    vc1234 n3wb

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    I use a small zwave network mainly for locks and thermos. I have two Yale locks which, while expensive, have been completely reliable. Likewise, RCSTZ45 thermostats.

    Initially, I used zwave for lighting as well (started about 5 years ago) but not now. My main issue with zwave based lighting is lack of instant feedback due to the Lutron patent that presumably expired this year. Thanks to the misguided patent, 90% of zwave switches do not provide instant status. Thermostats, locks and other sensors do provide instant status because they do not violate the above mentioned patent.

    There does not appear to be a reliable zwave automation controller on the market either. The closest you can get to is probably the UDI ISY and maybe homeseer. Of course, you can cobble up your own automation controller based on domoticz, openhab, home assistant, etc. However, this path is not suitable for someone who does not have a solid technical background in programming, hardware and maybe even RF EE.

    On a related note, does anyone know if open zwave control panel or its equivalent in domoticz can modify lock user code if OZCP or domotics are used as a secondary controller ?
     
  25. Camit

    Camit Getting the hang of it

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    First thing you know about Smartthings it's mostly ran off the cloud and I would say ST is not very reliable. sometimes things work other days they don't, sometimes you have lights randomly turn off and on. However with that said Smartthings is very easy to use they also in my opinion at one of the biggest support forums,and compatible with the most devices.

    Check out a app on IOS called SmartRules also check out core.

    I would go with these locks there grade 1

    Schlage Connect BE469NX CAM 619 Touchscreen Deadbolt with alarm & Camelot Trim, Satin Nickel Schlage Connect BE469NX CAM 619 Touchscreen Deadbolt with alarm & Camelot Trim, Satin Nickel - Door Dead Bolts - Amazon.com
     
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  26. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Getting comfortable

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    Domoticz does everything the others do through an easy web interface, you CAN you scripts and stuff with it but the setup is super simple and I dunno what zwave lights you use but mine turn on instantly

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
  27. vc1234

    vc1234 n3wb

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    I am not talking about lights turning instantly but rather about the switch sending its status back to the controller without needing to poll it. Very few switches on the market can do that. Leviton Vizia RF+ and Cooper can, but they are ancient, at least 5 year old and pretty expensive in comparison to GE and other similar zwave switches. To my knowledge, there is not a single zwave plus switch yet that can provide instant status. Well, HS100+ claims to do that, but what they provide is what button was pressed, not the actual status, like the dimmer level.
     
  28. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Leviton patented the technology like a bunch of douche bags; nobody else is gonna offer that feature unfortunately until the patent expires.

    honestly its not really a feature worth anything, so what you cant have something react off a light switch press.. unless you want to turn more than one light on with a single switch and its not already wired for 2-switches; not really a big deal.. it would be nice, but I dont really miss it.
     
  29. vc1234

    vc1234 n3wb

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    Yes, presumably the patent expired at the end of the last year, but I've not seen any new switches that would implement it yet.

    I disagree on the feature usefulness: there might be a bunch of automation rules that one would want to trigger based on the dimmer level/switch status, especially security rules; multi-way switches with direct association without any additional wiring, as you mentioned. There are workarounds of course, but they introduce latency issues which may or may not be acceptable in any specific situation.
     
  30. rnatalli

    rnatalli Young grasshopper

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    I never had my lights go on and off randomly, but ST does display annoying glitches every so often. Have thought about checking Domo out.

    I'll check out SmartRules, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017