How-To: Audio Inputs

Discussion in 'IP Cameras' started by nayr, Apr 14, 2016.

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  1. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Someone asked for very detailed instructions a while back, so I made sure to take pictures the next time I had a chance.

    IMAG0539.jpg
    IMAG0540.jpg

    Equipment:


    Requires:
    • PoE Camera with 12v Barrel Plug & RCA Audio Input
    • Junction Box mounting with enough room for it all.
    • No Legal Restrictions on Audio Recording.

    See attached photos for wiring..

    basically.. PoE Splitter to Mic Power IN, Mic Power Out to camera, Mic Audio out to Camera, and finally Poe Splitter RJ45 to camera.. The RCA Coupler connects the two female outputs of your camera and microphone together, you can see it in the photos.

    I'll get pix of my other camera that did not take a RCA input, it took a mono 3.5mm input.. so I hacked the rca plug off and splice it in with the right connector..
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  2. Fastb

    Fastb Pulling my weight

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    Nayr,

    It was very nice of you to remember the user's struggles, take pictures later, annotate the pics, then post the guidance.

    And on top of that, you found the user's original forum post from 3 weeks ago, and provided a link from there to here.

    That's why this forum's label for you is "Legendary Member".

    Brian
     
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  3. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    these mics do work without power, but they wont be amplified.. so if you dont have room for the PoE Splitter then you can forgo that with diminished audio performance.. it will still pickup conversations in the immediate vicinity, but not at any impressive distances like when its powered.

    for exposing the microphone, I used coax passthrough bushing into a hole I drilled with a step bit.. glued the microphone to the inside with high temp hot glue and then shoved foam in the rest of the hole to act as a wind block.
     

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  4. ben_r_

    ben_r_ Young grasshopper

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    Thanks man! Good post!

    On a slightly different note, have you ever tried a passive mic with an RCA connector on it plugged into the mic in on the camera? Wondering how much the amplification of a powered mic is really needed in the case of say using it indoors.

    Also, FWIW I also found this offering from Q-See which includes a wall wart power supply if you so desire:

    http://www.amazon.com/Q-See-QSPMIC-Powered-Microphone-Supply/dp/B002MPVJGU

    Also, the POE splitter can be had from China for around $5 on eBay: LINK

    And the microphone for $2 from China on eBay: LINK

    Nicer wall mount type mic for $4 from China on eBay: LINK
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
  5. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    Well if you dont give it power, its a passive mic then :)

    so yeah, I have.. actually the one in my license plate birdhouse is not powered right now and its only about 30ft away from this powered one...

    The powered one is at minimal volume and I can hear birds singing pretty far off right now, the unpowered one is dead silent at max volume.. but it'll hear a loud vehicle drive by and could pickup conversations in the immediate vicinity (10-15ft mebe).. where as the powered one can hear pretty much anywhere in my back yard.. 100ft away.

    Indoors I suspect unpowered would likely be fine, powered would make it a super spy device so dont be supprised when you hear ppl fucking off in the distance :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
  6. ben_r_

    ben_r_ Young grasshopper

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    Ha! Got it. I added a few links to the parts for much cheaper on ebay FWIW to my post above.
     
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  7. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    yeah I wasent going for cheapest items, just the most likely ones to remain on amazon with decent reviews and accurate photos.. you can definitely find the components for much cheaper if you shop around... ebay and china links will likely all be dead in a few months.

    some of them are ridiculous, $5 for a $0.50 coupler, but thats mostly all prime-shipping wrapped in to the purchase price.. IPCamTalk does get a referral bonus for any amazon links you click and buy.. im sure the admins appreciate it.
     
  8. SyconsciousAu

    SyconsciousAu Getting the hang of it

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    @nayr do you have signs up at your place warning visitors that you are recording Audio?

    Probably a good place to mention you should check your local laws before recording audio, even on your own premises. Most places prohibit the recording of conversations to which you are not a party, some allow you to record with the consent of one party to the conversation, and some prohibit recording without the consent of all the parties to the conversation. The type of consent required varies as well. Implied consent is enough in some places where other places may require express and informed consent.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
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  9. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    good point, but yes I have signage.. however I am not required to.. I just have a fondness for signs I think.

    same goes for cameras too, always check local with local laws.. it varies wildly.. audio however is often more restricted.

    a sign may be required, or audio may be outright illegal in some environments.. proceed at your own risk, IANAL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
  10. SyconsciousAu

    SyconsciousAu Getting the hang of it

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    https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/co/colorado.xml.older/code11.18.html

    Got curious on what your local laws actually said and it appears that signs would be necessary to meet the reasonable notice requirement of the exemption to the eavesdropping statute.

    My local laws are a bit more complex. You can record with implied consent of the parties to the conversation but if the person says they don't consent you can't record. On your own property you can make it a condition of entry that they consent to being recorded on the premises but it is a bit of a grey area as to whether a sign is sufficient in that regard, or the person has to be told more directly, and asked to leave if they don't consent. All of the stores here have signs saying it is a condition of entry that you present you bag for a search on the way out but you can still refuse consent to do that, even though there was a sign when you entered.

    As you can probably guess I have been doing a bit of research on the subject. I want to put 2 way audio on my front door so I can talk to people at the front door from my phone, but to get that to work the camera will be recording audio. Given it is a serious offence where I live to record conversation to which you are not a party without implied consent at least, I want to get it right.
     
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  11. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    and even that is open to interpretation, as I said IANAL.. but the public is not welcome on my own premises. I read that as two parts.


    I am not a business, the public is not welcome on my property so I dont have to notify anyone.. I fall under the first part of that for security on own premises.

    business purposes are for example: training or quality control of customer service.. ie when you are notified 'your call may be monitored for training and quality', it tells you the purpose even.

    I believe there is a required comma missing for that latter statement to apply to the former, but either way its only a misdemeanor, so I'll hire a lawyer after I have a problem.. if it was a felony, id hire one now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
  12. SyconsciousAu

    SyconsciousAu Getting the hang of it

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    You have the signs anyway so I think you are fine whichever way you read it. It never hurts to err on the side of caution in legal matters.
     
  13. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    agreed, you cant use it as evidence if it is was not legally obtained.. so its self defeating to install a video recording system that cannot be used as evidence without incurring additional legal problems..

    Dont want to find out in court that not only is your evidence illegal but now you are being charged for presenting it to a judge..

    The sign was an after effect, got some generic home security system signs and it says the house has Video & Audio Surveillance, with battery backup, offsite storage, and wireless communications.. I had it long before I had any cameras with mic's actually :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
  14. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    here is a pix of the mic for my license plate camera, this does not have a passthrough power, because this one needed splitter anyhow for IR.

    it did use a 3.5mm mono jack, so I spliced the cable on and made this.. this will be more common indoor and/or box cameras.

    wiring the splice is easy, the ground not jacketed.. just 2 wires straight thru, solder em and wrap it nicely.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2016
  15. atamas

    atamas n3wb

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    Would you know if this method of cutting the mic cable is the right way to go to provide audio to a Hikvision DS-2CD2632F-IS camera? Hikvision seems to have some green adapters and not an RCA jack. I haven't bought the camera yet so the picture on Amazon is all I have. Searches on YouTube and general Google haven't provided an answer on what type of powered mic these Hikvision cameras take.

    I have one more question - I'm curious - does using the PoE Splitter take all the power out of the LAN cable? Or does it just tap into the power leaving power to go to the camera through the LAN cable?
    61-L7PDQAoL._SL1000_.jpg

     
  16. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    it removes power from the ethernet, and your going to have to get raw exposed wires for a Hik.
     
  17. malkorok

    malkorok n3wb

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    Thanks a ton for this.
     
  18. pal251

    pal251 Getting the hang of it

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    Powered mics work much better than the passive microphones.
     
  19. Arjun

    Arjun Getting the hang of it

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    If the NVR already has POE capabilities, there wouldn't be a need for an additional AC adapter, right?
     
  20. mpbcam

    mpbcam n3wb

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    I'm intrigued by the thought of getting audio from at least one of my cameras, like the one at my front door. It's just POE but let's say I wanted one at my POE+ camera. I think in the Dahua Starlight thread it was mentioned that POE+ splitters are expensive, but I saw this one and it's "only" $36.90 at Amazon right now:
    Amazon.com: SMAKNĀ® Active Gigabit PoE Splitter Adapter, IEEE 802.3at compliant, Up To 100 meters, 5V / 12V /18v Output: Computers & Accessories

    Is that what was meant by expensive? It's definitely more than the POE splitters so I guess it comes down to how much of a hassle it would be to wire 12V for the mic separately from the camera... is it easier to spend the $ and get this. :)

    Either way, I don't think my POE+ ptz has room for a splitter up there anyway, even though it'd be a good place to put a mic that could pick up sound all around my front yard.

    I was just wondering if the POE+ splitter was even a good deal or if anyone had experience with other ones, just in case I decide that's the direction I go.

    By the way, I did see another POE+ splitter on Amazon that was < $10 but it seemed sketchy and only mentioned 10/100 Mbps, not gigabit. Made me think the ethernet pass-through really wouldn't work for gigabit and it wasn't a typo... a security camera may not "need" gigabit but the extra headroom would be nice. 100 Mbps means you're basically limited to 10 MB/s and that's in ideal circumstances. 2K video at H.264 would theoretically be okay, let's say you even set our CBR to 4096K, but I'd always wonder if I'm straining for bandwidth in such a case.
     
  21. Arjun

    Arjun Getting the hang of it

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    What about the TP-Link PoE splitter? ($10 - $20) @Amazon
     
  22. mpbcam

    mpbcam n3wb

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    If you're talking about this one: Amazon.com: TP-Link Gigabit Ethernet PoE Splitter Adapter (TL-PoE10R): Electronics

    It's only POE, not POE+

    I saw a lot of cool POE splitters with nice, small form factors, even some that had the waterproof connector built in to the RJ-45 socket which would be a nice bonus.

    Unfortunately I didn't see anything like that in the POE+ category that could deliver 24+ Watts (12V @ 2A). And the POE+ stuff was more expensive for sure, but not by that much... I just didn't know if anyone had any specific recommendations. There were a very tiny number of reviews (or none at all) for most of them which makes me leery.
     
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  23. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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  24. Futaba

    Futaba Getting the hang of it

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    Thanks @nayr for the guide. I followed it and bought the parts for my 1x IPC-HFW5231E-Z bullet version. Works like a charm. I did order the mic from a different vendor on Amazon because the one you recommend doesn't have free 2-day Prime shipping on Amazon. I wanted to set it up this weekend. I picked this one instead:

    Amazon.com : HIFROM(TM) 1pc High Sensitive Audio Pickup Device Tiny Spy Mini Mic Microphones Audio Sound Voice Monitoring Recording for CCTV Home Surveillance Security Camera : Camera & Photo

    This one looks exactly the same and sounds very clear to me.

    @nayr, any recommendation on adding a speaker to the cam? The cam also has an RCA audio out. Thanks.
     
  25. Fastb

    Fastb Pulling my weight

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    Futaba,

    Recommendations:
    - use powered mic
    - Get power by using a POE splitter.
    I use an inexpensive powered mic, and am very please with the results.

    Some links to parts are here:
    DS-2CD2120F-IWS microphone

    See the thread below with an excellent tutorial by nayr.
    How-To: Audio Inputs

    If you want top performance, see this thread for a bullet mic:
    Bullet Mic Review
     
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  26. Howling Hills

    Howling Hills n3wb

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    I was just wondering......what if you just spliced in to the stock PoE cat6 close to the camera, catch the 12V lines then slip a 5.5 x 2.1 plug on the splice(proper polarity)? Maybe sounds hokey but if you did a good job with the splice and the insulation.......? Or is it a no no to splice into cat 5/6? Could do it close to the camera. Mic will draw very little 12 volt watts, right?
     
  27. mpbcam

    mpbcam n3wb

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    POE has a higher voltage (around 48 volts, but really 44-57v which depends a lot on the cable distance), and to meet the power requirements that voltage is carried over multiple wires. On top of that there's a negotiation between the "client" (the camera/phone/whatever) and the POE provider (switch) regarding the class of power required.
     
  28. Fastb

    Fastb Pulling my weight

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    The poe splitter outputs a regulated 12v, no matter what the actual POE voltage is.

    Secondly, you'd be going down a very non-standard path. Sure, Cat 5 and 5e only use 4 conductors for data. Cat 6 uses all 8 conductors. Now if you connected some DC load on those lines, you're very likely to mangle the high speed data lines (with the capacitance/inductance you put onto the lines)

    The poe splitter uses center-tap transformers to pass the data, balancing out the effect of extracting the DC, so the data signals aren't adversely affected.

    The poe splitter is inexpensive, has all the connectors, you don't have to worry about polarity when you soldering on that DC plug onto a Cat 6 cable, etc.

    Fastb
     
  29. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Getting the hang of it

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    The 4 vs. 8 conductor usage is based on the connection type. With cat 5 or greater cable, 100 MBPS ethernet uses 4 conductors, gigabit uses 8 conductors. I've run two 100 MBPS camera links on a single cat 5 cable as well as on a single cat 6 cable. The second link could just as well be carrying a DC supply voltage.
     
  30. Fastb

    Fastb Pulling my weight

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    tigerwillow, thanks for catching my sloppy description.

    I said:
    I should have said "Cat 6 uses all 8 conductors for 1Gb connection links"

    And I could have put it in better context, eg: "It will be a very long wait before cameras move to 1Gb links, since it's not needed for a single cam's video feed"

    Fastb