How to bring all the wires down to the NVR?

[ah6tyfour]

I'm new to this whole PoE camera thing, but have read a ton of threads here as well as the wiki. What I realized I never figured out is how best to bring all the CAT6 cables to the NVR.

My place has attic access, so my plan is to run CAT6 through the attic directly to the spots on the exterior where the cameras will go. So once that is done, I should have around 12 CAT6 cables (six locations for cameras with two CAT6 terminals each for redundancy) that then need to make it to one of the rooms in my house and connected to the NVR.

How does one bring so many cables down into a room without creating a huge hole in the wall? I figure the NVR or switch would be in one of the bedrooms being used as an office and would be sitting on a desk, so it seems like all these cables would have to come down to the bottom of the wall and then get extracted so they can be hidden behind the desk as they run up to the NVR.

I spent all this time daydreaming about where to put the cameras and how I'm going to run the wires that I completely neglected to think about the other end.

(edited to reflect my lack of knowledge of Blue Iris...)

 

[alastairstevenson]

I figure the NVR and the attached computer to run Blue Iris will just be sitting on a desk

Blue Iris and an NVR? Usually it's one or the other.
If Blue Iris then you'll need a POE switch that all the camera cables terminate at. This can be located where it suits the cable topology - and where the climate and accessibility works OK. And there will then be a single cable back to your LAN core switch / router.
If an NVR without POE ports, the above comments apply also.
If an NVR with POE ports, all the camera cables will have to terminate at it's location, with similar considerations as for the POE switch, with the additional constraint that you may also want to hook up an HDMI connection to the NVR.

 

[ah6tyfour]

Blue Iris and an NVR? Usually it's one or the other.
If Blue Iris then you'll need a POE switch that all the camera cables terminate at. This can be located where it suits the cable topology - and where the climate and accessibility works OK. And there will then be a single cable back to your LAN core switch / router.
If an NVR without POE ports, the above comments apply also.
If an NVR with POE ports, all the camera cables will have to terminate at it's location, with similar considerations as for the POE switch, with the additional constraint that you may also want to hook up an HDMI connection to the NVR.

Oh, I think I misunderstood then. I thought the cameras hooked up to the NVR for power and to provide data to the hard drives, but then the NVR hooked up to a desktop PC to run the software. So assuming an NVR with PoE ports, there would just be a display out to connect a monitor? How would I set up the ability to log in remotely on my phone or tablet to check on the cameras? That's why I thought the NVR worked with Blue Iris to all this remote functionality.

 

[fenderman]

Oh, I think I misunderstood then. I thought the cameras hooked up to the NVR for power and to provide data to the hard drives, but then the NVR hooked up to a desktop PC to run the software. So assuming an NVR with PoE ports, there would just be a display out to connect a monitor? How would I set up the ability to log in remotely on my phone or tablet to check on the cameras? That's why I thought the NVR worked with Blue Iris to all this remote functionality.

Blue Iris is video management software that replaces the NVR and is fsr superior..

 

[ah6tyfour]

Blue Iris is video management software that replaces the NVR and is fsr superior..

I guess I'll have to read into it more so I finally understand it.

In any case, I still have to figure out how to bring all the cables down from the attic into a room where the NVR or switch would be. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Seems 12 CAT6 cables bundled together would need quite a big hole to make into a wall.

 

[ah6tyfour]

Rather than having the cables just coming out of the wall, even if they're hidden behind a desk, you should consider terminating them at a patch panel / wall panel. There are probably some that are designed to be embedded / flush with a wall so that it would look nice and neat. There might even be some that come in a kit that allow it to be mounted with a flange or something so that you wouldn't even have to do any dry wall patching.

In particular, since you mentioned you'll be running two cables to each location for redundancy (good idea, IMO), only 6 of those 12 cables will be used at first. So if they were all coming out of the bottom of a wall it would look pretty messy. A wall panel would look much neater.

So essentially it would end in a panel with 12 ethernet female connectors and then I'd have six short CAT6 cables going from the NVR or the switch to the wall? Is there a photo you can point me to? It's funny how I've spent a month reading about these cameras but never really considered what had to happen on the other end of the cable.

 

[ah6tyfour]

Hi @ah6tyfour - If this is going to be in a "normal" room, then you might want to have them end in a faceplate. You know, like a big version of something you would have a bunch of light switches on. You can go to Amazon and search for 12-port keystone faceplate and here's an example: https://www.amazon.com/12-Port-Keystone-Faceplate-White/dp/B004FUYYWG It would probably be hard to find one bigger than that, but 12 is your number, so you're gold. Terminate each cable in an ethernet keystone jack, and they snap into that faceplate. Then as you say, you run 6 short ethernet cables from the 6 camera jacks into your NVR or POE switch.

Keystones: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-25-Pack-Keystone-Punch-Down/dp/B004D5PFGW
And a punch-down tool: https://www.amazon.com/YaeTek-Network-Impact-Interchangeable-Blades/dp/B078W1R9D8

If it's going to be in something you would consider a machine room, where it's ok for it to look "industrial", then you can use a patch panel instead of a wall plate. But you'd probably have to do some drywall patching if you don't want any cables at all to show. Like this from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Unshielded-Wallmount-Compatible-TC-P16C6/dp/B0000AZK4C And again, run 6 short cables to the NVR or switch.

Those are just examples of each of the items, you can probably find better ones or cheaper ones, depending on what you like.

Thank you!! This is exactly what I needed. The faceplate seems like the perfect solution since it is a normal room that it's going into. So I assume for this I'd have to cut out a square of drywall just smaller than the faceplate to put in the bracket? Seems like cutting 12 little holes to match would be a nightmare. It's going to be an anxiety-inducing thing to cut a big hole in a wall in a new home, but I guess once the faceplate is on, it'll look nice and tidy.

I have an electrician coming to install some recessed lighting, so I wonder if I could talk him into just running some CAT6 for me. Or at least cut the hole and drop 12 long CAT6 cables down from the attic. I can take it from there and finish the ends, install the faceplate, run the cable to the outside, etc.

 

[trucams]

If possible, don’t run all of the wires to an interior wall and through a hole. Run everything to a poe switch somewhere and connect it to your router. Then you only need to run one wire to the NVR or PC depending on which route you choose. Or, pick the cams up from the network. Pulling 12 wires through a wall is going to not only be a wire mess but also limit your ability move the NVR if you ever wanted to. Plus, if you choose to go the BI route, you will have to add a switch inside the room where the wires all end, rather than some out of the way location like a garage, laundry/mud room, basement or wherever. Here are wires to a switch mounted in the garage; eliminates the inside mess!

 

[mat200]

FYI - some of those 2 gang 12 RJ45 keystone are no good and getting all the 12x RJ45 jacks to fit will not work. Trust me, I've tried that a couple of times.

Better to find a closet or utility room where you can bring the 12 cat6 cables down from the ceiling in a couple of 1" conduit sections and then route to a patch panel.
Then mount your switch / NVR below the patch panel.

 

[rjsimons]

...Here are wires to a switch mounted in the garage; eliminates the inside mess!
View attachment 29207

I'm considering running all my wires to my garage, too. What sort of enclosure did you use for your setup and is heat buildup within it an issue? Thanks!

 

[ah6tyfour]

Right, the hole in the drywall will be just a bit smaller than the faceplate. One big hole, as opposed to 12 little holes. There's a box that goes inside the drywall and clamps on, then the faceplate screws to that.

If you have an electrician coming anyway, definitely ask him about the box, he'll know all about it. He might even have one that he'll give you for a few bucks. I don't know the details on the boxes myself, I hired a guy to pull all my cables. So my knowledge is only from watching what he did.

Oh, one tip I can give you on the keystones though, is that they snap in to the plate in a particular order. That is, for each one you push in the top, then snap in the bottom (or vice versa). Be sure you do them top-down (or bottom-up) so that each successive one has room to tilt for the push, then rock down for the snap. If you do them in the wrong order, then there's no room to tilt the next one. I hope that makes sense, but you'll see what I mean if you play with the keystones first before putting the cables on them to see how the snap works and what order to do them in.

Thanks! I'll have to ask my electrician. He's already going to be up the attic getting the lights installed, so hopefully it's not too big a deal.

 

[ah6tyfour]

If possible, don’t run all of the wires to an interior wall and through a hole. Run everything to a poe switch somewhere and connect it to your router. Then you only need to run one wire to the NVR or PC depending on which route you choose. Or, pick the cams up from the network. Pulling 12 wires through a wall is going to not only be a wire mess but also limit your ability move the NVR if you ever wanted to. Plus, if you choose to go the BI route, you will have to add a switch inside the room where the wires all end, rather than some out of the way location like a garage, laundry/mud room, basement or wherever. Here are wires to a switch mounted in the garage; eliminates the inside mess!
View attachment 29207

Thanks for the pic! I didn't realize this was an option. So there would be one output from the switch which goes to an input on the NVR? How easy will be that be to program on the networking side of things? Would it be as "plug and play" as having the cameras go straight into the NVR? The reason I'm asking is that this new place is my parents' place and I'm not actually staying there. So I'm looking for something that will just work reliably without having to troubleshoot network settings and stuff. I figured if I got a system that went cameras directly to NVR and bought it all as a package, it'd be all nicely self-contained and ready to just turn on and use. This is also why I'm prob not going to want it going to a PC since then the PC can go down and need troubleshooting or something can happen with Blue Iris on the PC.

 

[ah6tyfour]

If possible, don’t run all of the wires to an interior wall and through a hole. Run everything to a poe switch somewhere and connect it to your router. Then you only need to run one wire to the NVR or PC depending on which route you choose. Or, pick the cams up from the network. Pulling 12 wires through a wall is going to not only be a wire mess but also limit your ability move the NVR if you ever wanted to. Plus, if you choose to go the BI route, you will have to add a switch inside the room where the wires all end, rather than some out of the way location like a garage, laundry/mud room, basement or wherever. Here are wires to a switch mounted in the garage; eliminates the inside mess!
View attachment 29207

Could I get a picture of how all the cables come into the garage and into your switch? Is it one big hole? I had originally thought to put the NVR in the garage because then two of the cameras can just go around the inside of the garage in PVC to get to their locations. Then I'd really only have four locations (so eight cables) to have to run up to the attic.

 

[trucams]

Let me ask... who is going to use the system; them, or you remotely? Is there ever going to be internet connectivity or is it going to be a stand alone/sandboxed system?

 

[fenderman]

Thanks for the pic! I didn't realize this was an option. So there would be one output from the switch which goes to an input on the NVR? How easy will be that be to program on the networking side of things? Would it be as "plug and play" as having the cameras go straight into the NVR? The reason I'm asking is that this new place is my parents' place and I'm not actually staying there. So I'm looking for something that will just work reliably without having to troubleshoot network settings and stuff. I figured if I got a system that went cameras directly to NVR and bought it all as a package, it'd be all nicely self-contained and ready to just turn on and use. This is also why I'm prob not going to want it going to a PC since then the PC can go down and need troubleshooting or something can happen with Blue Iris on the PC.

Running a single cable from a switch is one of the biggest advantages of using ip cameras.
actually using a pc with blue iris is much easier to troubleshoot and maintain since you can login direct to the pc remotely using something like teamviewer...with an nvr, you can log into the web interface but wont see the main console remotely.
an NVR can "go down" just as easily as a pc. All you need to do extra during setup is assign ip addresses to the cameras via the routers dhcp reservation.

 

[trucams]

I'm considering running all my wires to my garage, too. What sort of enclosure did you use for your setup and is heat buildup within it an issue? Thanks!

I used a leviton structured media panel. I put four holes through the double top plate. Only ended up using two for about 10 Ethernet lines. Using a fan less POE switch. Have yet to find it more than warm to the touch.

Cut a hole in the Sheetrock along the center of the wall studs above the panel to route the wires. Screwed back in place after finishing.

 

[rjsimons]

@trucams Thanks! Nice work...

 

[ah6tyfour]

Let me ask... who is going to use the system; them, or you remotely? Is there ever going to be internet connectivity or is it going to be a stand alone/sandboxed system?

They'll be using it. I guess I can remotely log into the computer when I need to, but it's going to be designed so they can monitor since there will probably be a couple indoor cameras too and I don't want them to feel like they're being watched.

 

[ah6tyfour]

Running a single cable from a switch is one of the biggest advantages of using ip cameras.
actually using a pc with blue iris is much easier to troubleshoot and maintain since you can login direct to the pc remotely using something like teamviewer...with an nvr, you can log into the web interface but wont see the main console remotely.
an NVR can "go down" just as easily as a pc. All you need to do extra during setup is assign ip addresses to the cameras via the routers dhcp reservation.

This sounds like a good way to go. So I can install a switch in my garage, two of my cameras can just be run along the inside of the garage to their locations contained in PVC, and I'd bring enough cables from the garage up to the attic to run two cables to each camera and a single cable which can drop down into the office room terminating in a wall plate. Then I can just hook a computer to that wall plate to complete the network. The computer can run Blue Iris and my parents can have the Blue Iris app on their phones to monitor the cameras if they're out. Does that sound about right?

The only thing left to figure out is how to get the 9 cables (8 going to 4 camera locations and 1 from the switch to the office) up into the attic. Seems weird to just cut a hole that'll have 9 cables running into it.

 

[trucams]

Any electrical cable is pushed through a hole between wall studs or through the top/bottom plates. It’s not wierd at all....

Redundancy is great for multiple wire pulls. If this was your place and you were going to be constantly tinkering and adding cameras or ir illuminators, it makes total sense. For what you are doing for your parents though, unless you know you are going to add in the future, it is overkill. There is no moving parts or wear on the wire. As long as it is terminated properly and weather protected -unless their house is routinely struck by lightening, one pull to each location will likely cover what they need.

Everyone’s situation is different. A pc with BI works for some, probably better for others. Same for an NVR... If your parents are tech savvy, know their way around a computer and have space for it, go pc/BI. If they struggle to turn on their television and DVD player, consider an NVR connected directly to their tv. It will be the most comfortable for them. If you overload them with technology, they will not use it at all and the effort will be for nothing... BOTH options are going to require work beyond plug and play. There are camera settings that do need to be tweaked at the device it’s self.

The wiki and cliff notes cover what you are trying to figure out. Sounds like the most efficient option is one run per camera and to a switch somewhere. Then from the switch to either a pc or NVR. If you want internet access to remote in or so they can check via phone, there is going to be even more work. Search IPCT for “VPN for noobs”.