Hypothetical arrangement possible/impossible?

[Rexalot]

I am new to the forum and this is my first post. I think the technology for this exists but I can't finalize a recipe. Please excuse my ignorance for acronyms and some terminology.

This system has some security elements to it but it is more about monitoring specific focal points of the cameras remotely with a recording element. I need to record everything from every camera but I only need about 15 days of storage.

This is what I want to accomplish...

I need a NVR that can be wired to an existing network.
I need the NVR to be able to handle up to 8 WiFi IP cams @ a minimum of 720p and preferable 1080p. In a perfect world it would handle virtually any camera with full backwards compatibility in any combination I choose.
I don't need or want POE. All cams will be WiFi.
6 of the cameras will have a reliable power source. They will also be within the WiFi signal I am able to create for them in a local area.
The 7th will be in a remote location 1 mile away and operate entirely on battery/solar. Also over WiFi.

I do not foresee an eighth camera but an extra slot can't hurt.

I have chosen the correct routing choices to handle the load/range/signal/data/antennas etc. (Basically you can forget this part of the equation)

What I can't seem to find is a NVR that does not have built in WiFi, does not have built in POE, Is a standalone unit compatible with a number of cameras, has user friendly software that also does not lock me into proprietary camera equipment.

I figure I am peeing into the wind or my Google-Fu is not up to par for this subject.

Can anyone help?

 

[tangent]

wifi sucks for cameras

 

[0blar]

Hi
Did you already choose your Cameras ?
NVR will mostly depend on the brand of camera you choose , or pickup a Blue Iris app based PC

 

[Rexalot]

wifi sucks for cameras

Thanks for your opinion I guess? You'll have to be more specific however. The WiFi camera technology is more than adequate for what I need. Also, I am both knowledgeable and quite skilled at building long range, high performance WiFi networks. As I said in my OP "(Basically you can forget this part of the equation)" I am focused on the NVR portion of the build at this time.

 

[looney2ns]

Any of Dahua's NVR' will fit the bill.
Blue Iris and a PC is a better choice.

 

[Rexalot]

Hi
Did you already choose your Cameras ?
NVR will mostly depend on the brand of camera you choose , or pickup a Blue Iris app based PC

Oblar, I have not chosen any specific cameras. The research I have done suggests that most NVR's are brand specific or proprietary to the cameras. That is why I came here looking for help. I certainly do not want to do any type of cloud recording service.

I guess that if I need to I can build my own PC type NVR as you suggested. What amazes me is that I need to consider building it. If there is a void in the technology here then why hasn't someone created a device? It has to exist. I just haven't found it yet maybe?

 

[Rexalot]

Any of Dahua's NVR' will fit the bill.
Blue Iris and a PC is a better choice.

Looney2ns I looked at many of the Dahua NVR's. What Duhua does not do is show you the backside of their equipment in the photos. So I am limited to reading the specs on each individual unit to discover if it is a POE unit. I didn't find one that was not POE based. Also how proprietary are their units with competitors cameras?

Any NVR I have found up to this point does not fit my build. Some have built in radios for the WiFi portion which are horribly inadequate. Or they revolve around a POE system with proprietary cameras.

 

[looney2ns]

Looney2ns I looked at many of the Dahua NVR's. What Duhua does not do is show you the backside of their equipment in the photos. So I am limited to reading the specs on each individual unit to discover if it is a POE unit. I didn't find one that was not POE based. Also how proprietary are their units with competitors cameras?

Any NVR I have found up to this point does not fit my build. Some have built in radios for the WiFi portion which are horribly inadequate. Or they revolve around a POE system with proprietary cameras.

No POE: http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/2631
They are ONVIF compliant, so any cam that is also ONVIF compliant will work, as listed on the spec page.

 

[mat200]

No POE: http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/2631
They are ONVIF compliant, so any cam that is also ONVIF compliant will work, as listed on the spec page.

@Rexalot looney2ns has good advice.

If you do not want to build your own I also would recommend Dahua's OEM NVRs.

Example - I purchased the NVR5216-16P-4KS2 Dahua OEM model from Andy ( @EMPIRETECANDY ) here. The "-16P-" = 16 PoE ports. If you want the non-PoE port version then the model would be NVR5216-4KS2.

Recommend dropping Andy a line, and letting him know what you are looking for in terms of max number of cameras you want connected. ( typically represented by number of channels; 4, 8, 16, 24,.. )

 

[Rexalot]

No POE: http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/2631
They are ONVIF compliant, so any cam that is also ONVIF compliant will work, as listed on the spec page.

That link is not working for me. It bounces me back to the main page.

 

[mat200]

That link is not working for me. It bounces me back to the main page.

Hi Rexalot,

Dahua redid their website and are making you select the area you are in... a real pita for all of us here, thus why I provided the model number and Andy's handle here for you instead of links.

 

[bp2008]

If you really want the best compatibility, Blue Iris is the way to go. The developer has gone out of his way to support uncommon and sometimes outright proprietary streaming methods used by various cameras. Basically, if a camera can work with 3rd party software, then chances are good that it can work with Blue Iris.

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

 

[0blar]

If you choose your nvr brand first then you will have to choose same camera brand as your nvr unless you build a Blue Iris based pc (but you don't want that solution)
So Dahua or Hikvision will be ok for you. (maybe other well know brand but not a lot of experience on them).
Better focus on camera specs to fit your needs, then decide the brand for nvr.
Hope it help

 

[Fastb]

@Rexalot ,

WiFi sucks, as many, many people will atest.
I bought a single wifi cam for a hard to reach spot for cat5. The cam needed to be power-cycled every 5 to 7 days to get thee cam unlocked. I eventually disabled WiFi in the cam and ran Cat5.

I am both knowledgeable and quite skilled at building long range, high performance WiFi networks.

WiFi cams suck - for experienced and inexperienced users. The problem isn't cock pit error by users, the problem is the camera's wifi.

Some research may help:
Best Wireless IP Turret Camera
Camera loads wireless internet
Wireless ip cam
Seeking advice: wifi-camera under carport

Maybe buy one wifi cam and test it's dependability before buying the rest of the cams.....

Welcome to the forum!

Fastb

 

[tangent]

Thanks for your opinion I guess? You'll have to be more specific however. The WiFi camera technology is more than adequate for what I need. Also, I am both knowledgeable and quite skilled at building long range, high performance WiFi networks. As I said in my OP "(Basically you can forget this part of the equation)" I am focused on the NVR portion of the build at this time.

There's a big difference between sending live video and recorded video over a network. With the recorded video you have buffering. The ability to buffer video has a HUGE impact on it's playability over wifi. With security cameras, there is NO buffering it's live the camera can't predict the future. The lack of buffering makes live video extremely sensitive to jitter and latency, every little perturbation in the wifi signal can and will disrupt the video. Attempting to keep more than 2-3 wifi cams working well may take extraordinary measures.

 

[Rexalot]

@Fastb @tangent

First of all I want to make it clear that I am no expert or know it all. I probably don't know any more about cameras and NVR's than most of the people on this forum, That is why I am here. I want to learn.

I think the problem with most of the WiFi cameras that people experience is directly related to the type of wireless network they are being installed on. I am not buying an off the shelf consumer router, attaching a fancy antenna and connecting a bunch of cameras to it. Fully expecting that consumer product to handle the load in all conditions because the weather was good and my signal was "nice" the day I hooked it all up. The data handling and reliability for those devices are indeed weak. They work "okay" for the gadgets we typically have around the home from a few users under moderate conditions. But that is about all they are good for.

For this project the WiFi network will be laid out in mostly Ubiquiti gear. With overkill in both performance and signal strength. I've deployed a few different systems in the past that more than handle the demands of multiple load intense connections. I've done this for over half a mile on at least 2 occasions.

I've already looked at the Ubiquiti UVC‑NVR. Wouldn't that be easy? Problem: That camera that will be a mile away needs to be a PTZ. A product they do not offer for their proprietary NVR. I also don't like being locked into camera choices in general. I am really amazed at the loose standards and proprietary practices in this area of technology. There certainly seems to be a void in technology here.

Two things stood out in my learning experience within this thread.

The first is:

If you really want the best compatibility, Blue Iris is the way to go. The developer has gone out of his way to support uncommon and sometimes outright proprietary streaming methods used by various cameras. Basically, if a camera can work with 3rd party software, then chances are good that it can work with Blue Iris.

To me the position is in a place to "steer" the industry standards towards a non proprietary NVR from whomever created this software. If the above statement is true. Why doesn't that developer partner with a hardware source to make it a purchasable, completed, end user professional/consumer unit? I can install it on a generic PC with all the proper hardware requirements and make it work myself but I can't buy a device that does it for me?

The second thing that stood out was:

WiFi cams suck - for experienced and inexperienced users. The problem isn't cock pit error by users, the problem is the camera's wifi.

This is an element I had not considered. If the camera manufacturers are dropping devices into the market that do not work as advertised...Why are people buying them?

 

[NoloC]

So it seems you have gone from asking advice about "8 wifi cams" to having a philosophical discussion on the state of the industry as you see it.
That's cool I guess but seems like you are just blowin' smoke. WiFi sucks for cams was the advice you were given. And 8 cams, well I'd like to see that attempt. Even "deploying" UBNT with "overkill" enabled will be a challenge. Most of us here will tell you to run a wire, but hey if you know better then pony up and do it. Report back as I doubt we can "basically forget this part of the equation". You could get the distant cam to work with los on a UBNT wireless bridge like the nano. Those are pretty reliable. Depends on what other users there may be in the environment.

You may be sincere, but believe me you sound a bit pompous.
Anyway, good luck.

Did I mention WiFi sucks for cams?

 

[mat200]

@Fastb @tangent
..
For this project the WiFi network will be laid out in mostly Ubiquiti gear. ..That camera that will be a mile away needs to be a PTZ. ..

Hi Rexalot,

As you can see, many of us have been down the let's try WiFi route and gotten burned trying that.. either for customers, ourselves, friends and family.

I would actually like to see how you accomplish your project and very curious to see the results and have you share your experiences here.

....If the camera manufacturers are dropping devices into the market that do not work as advertised...Why are people buying them?

Well.. the truth is people are impulsive, too willing to believe advertisements and hollywood, and fairly easily mislead.

This is why people buy things like:
Diamond rings. ( "They hold their value... " - lol, like 10% of it.. )
Supplements.
Listen to Dr Oz ( 50% of which is bs )
Zmodo and funlux security camera products ( absolute crap btw for those reading )
Arlo products for security camera purposes .... ( so unsuited for security camera purposes that it does not meet the minimal viable product specs )

and so forth...

In the end the majority of customers for security cameras really have NO idea of what is good and what will work well.

 

[mat200]

This is what I would recommend, use normal IP PoE cameras w/microSD cards for local storage if they get disconnected from the network - and build your network with quality products like you plan.

 

[Rexalot]

@NoloC I think you misunderstood my position. I am here to learn and part of that is challenging ideas and asking questions. I didn't mean to come off as "pompous".

The long range camera is about 5450 feet from the source. It's purpose will be for wildlife watching a deer plot. There are no utility sources of any kind near it. It's literally a 5 acre field on a mountain top with a permanent deer stand. But I can get line of sight to the source because of the 2 elevations. The only thing running at that location would be a single PTZ camera. Occasionally there may be a couple of cell phones, tablets or laptops using the AP as well.

Another run is roughly 450 feet away from source. Again there is line of sight. 4 cameras at this location watching a very large building with each camera on each corner of the building.

The last 2 camera locations are within 300 feet of the source. One pointed at a driveway entrance gate and another pointed at a door on a second building. These 2 could be wired.

So let me pose this question. What if I used wired equipment at all of the locations but air bridged all of their connections back to the source? There would be no WiFi cameras in the equation and 2 of them would be physically wired to the source. The network load would mainly be the cameras. Wouldn't this be better than dropping WiFi cams onto an AP?