If you could start all over again with a new IPC setup...

[kyadmin]

If you could start all over again with a new IPC setup... and doing it RIGHT was ahead of cost priority wise, what would you do different than your current setup? First time poster, long time lurker. Sorry I'm long winded.

I am an IT guy by day. We recently purchased a new house and I am in the process of basically remodeling the entire house in one way or another. I have ran CAT 5e all over the house, in most cases multiple cables, and I am currently getting ready to start placing cameras outside. We have some frequent petty crime in our neighborhood (mainly people leaving their cars unlocked) so I'm not necessarily looking for things to solve a specific problem but more from an "in case" perspective. I have installed many IP cams in various customer offices and some houses, but never really had the opportunity to "do it right" nor would I claim that I am a surveillance expert by any stretch. I believe that every time I have done this it was for a specific reason; employee safety, or for liability reasons etc. Some cameras were limited in funds and the quality was horrible (not my choice) but it works so they still function and use them. I have never really had the opportunity to do it the right way.

I don't want to say that money isn't an object, but a long time ago I learned my lesson about getting what you pay for. So I would rather spend a little more money and get something good rather than just having something that works. I recall a client who installed a camera because someone was stealing from petty cash and we finally catch the thief on video; or we think. But because the best we could narrow down a timeline was to "sometime between 5 PM Friday and 8 AM Monday" we could never find the evidence we needed in that 63 hours of footage, even watching back at 2x speed would have been over 30 hours of staring at a screen. 4x would have been 15 hours and anything more than that you miss seeing it happen. So having a recording solution that actually works with some intelligent search functions is one thing that I really am interested in. As well as very high quality images to work with.

What I am trying to accomplish:

We have baby #2 on the way. For my first son, we had a nework PTZ camera with audio mounted in the nursery. But I had to leave my Mac on at night with iSpy (I think it was) full screen and speakers turned up. It worked but wasn't ideal. I don't want to put a computer in our bedroom this time if I can avoid it; at least not like that. My wife bought one of those camera/app combos recommended by another new mommy that we plan on using for trips and most likely our go to for monitoring the baby in the nursery. But I also have a new Foscam 1080p R2 that I plan on mounting in the nursery (I was really impressed with this camera - not their app or web interface but the picture quality, how quiet it is when moving etc). My main goal is to be able to view this via a picture in picture window on our bedroom TV. Initially I was trying to do this via an Apple TV app, but after much searching it seems like none of the apps out there do everything I would want. Not to mention using this as a baby monitor sucks because we won't really hear audio while it's in the picture in picture mode. Doesn't do much good if I have to switch input to hear audio. So I believe that we are going to rely on the wife's purchase as a baby monitor at least for audio. But I still want to be able to view 1-4 cameras via a picture in picture window on my bedroom TV either on demand or leave it on the nursery camera all night.

Would a simple NVR be the best solution here? Plugged in via HDMI to a second input on my TV? Any good suggestions? I would want something small that would write to network storage somewhere else in the house. This kinda ties into another question I'll get to a bit.

I do want to install cameras outside my house. And IMO if I'm going to have them they may as well record. So this sounds like another NVR somewhere or possibly still using the one in my bedroom but recording to FTP or other network drive? This would have to be a small device that basically just allowed me to stream IP cams with an HDMI or VGA output to view on TV. I have a small shelf mounted under my TV so not a lot of room here at all. Cable box, Apple TV, and NVR.

All of the locations I have picked for cameras will be free from being washed out by the sun. But obviously will need to have IR abilities. I would welcome some opinions on what PoE cameras with good-great picture quality both day and night?

With HD streaming, i'm assuming that bandwidth is going to be an issue that grows with more cameras? I was thinking about setting up a completely separate network for my cameras and NVR. Internally the network would only be for my cameras and NVR and viewing from my iPhone would be done via the internet, even when home. Second static IP address reserved just for this. As opposed to having to rely on vlan for my camera network? I'm looking for some advice here from seasoned pros or really any alternate opinions. Is there such an NVR that will allow me to create a second network just for cameras to communicate with my NVR but the primary network of the NVR for viewing would be on my local LAN? To relieve the IP camera traffic from my already congested network. Or is vlan the best option here?

Sorry for asking so many questions. I have gone through many - many posts here. And while most of this has probably been answered, not really that easy to locate. Not to mention I thought that this would be a good topic to get some wheels turning. So thank you in advance for any welcomed advice.

 

[cybermech]

Start with this camera review below, then look at the other 3 reviews linked near the top. You can use a pc with software, or an NVR. I chose an NVR because I can locate it in a hard to find location that a pc wouldn't work well in. Connected to my tv so it can be viewed there directly, and with a tablet displaying the front house / porch views by the door using the Dahua app.

Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

 

[Fastb]

kyadmin,

Welcome to the forum. Congrats on baby #2 due soon.

If you could start all over again with a new IPC setup... what would you do different than your current setup?

Some thoughts from my perspective:
- during the remodel, I ran cat5 cable (the spec at the time) to everywhere I thought I needed it. And
- cameras weren't on my mind at all. So now, years later
- I wish #1: I installed string and cable stays that would allow me to replace cables with Cat6
- I wish #2: I installed some pvc in the house to allow pulling cable from the attic to the garage or basement
- I wish #3: I had installed conduit or cable pulling strings from attic to some soffits
- If my wishes came true, installing camera cables now would be much easier! Pulling cable now (as compared to during the remodel) is a major pain in the butt. Just like replacing cat 5 will be if it ever comes to that.
- Having some pvc just waiting for cable would be ideal! And future-proofs to some extent.

I also have a new Foscam 1080p R2 that I plan on mounting in the nursery (I was really impressed with this camera

You said you read a lot of posts here. So I won't repeat what folks say about foscam.

Would a simple NVR be the best solution here?

You're an IT guy, so the BI + PC route could be handled, but might take more time than an NVR. Consider your pregnant wife's druthers might be. And what home automation you might want in the future.

I was thinking about setting up a completely separate network for my cameras and NVR.

That's wise, especially since you're placing cable now. The cam network and home network could meet in your central wiring cab, in two switches.

Not to mention using this as a baby monitor sucks because we won't really hear audio while it's in the picture in picture mode.

I use a clamshell running Smart PSS and WiFi to get the video stream. Portable. Supports audio. You might place it on the nightstand. PiP is nice, but may not be as simple. Or as portable. I have a seperate WiFi router on the cam network, so pulling cam video to the clamshell doesn't interfere with the home LAN, netflix, etc.

I do want to install cameras outside my house.

Stay flexible. Locations may change when you view video using a test rig. And fine tune for a) "Overview" vs b) Security. Different objectives, cam lenses, cam locations, etc.

Have fun!

Fastb

 

[tigerwillow1]

Even though I'm a newbie, I also wanted to do it right and did start over again, wasting a lot of time and money in the process. From having done it wrong, I have some overall suggestions, many based on bad assumptions:

1. Don't rely on reports or recommendations unless they're for the same type and generation of equipment you're thinking of.
2. Don't rely on reports or recommendations for equipment unless it's being used in the same way you'll be using it.
3. If you're not relying on close hand-holding from your seller, go with original Dahua or Hikvision equipment instead of rebranded versions. I learned quickly the the rebranders pick up new features and bug fixes either with a delay or not at all.
4. If there's a return window for your equipment, thoroughly test it the way you will use it before the return window expires. I dilly-dallied trying to make things work, and when I finally realized they never would, I was past the return time.
5. In general, the cameras and NVRs are full of bugs. A bug that's a nit for one use might be disqualifying for another. It's a bit of a crap shoot.
6. Don't expect a lot from the documentation, either for completeness or correctness.
7. Don't expect that quality comes with cost. I bought equipment labeled "Enterprise level" thinking something aimed at commercial users would surely be solid and complete. I thought wrong.
8. Don't even mess with motion detection. Way too many false positives. Line crossing and area intrusion work pretty well.

Specifically, my use is for 24x7 recording at a residence, with events also recorded so I can go directly to them. Armed with lack of experience and bad assumptions I decided to go with a Hikvision nvr and 4 megapixel cameras. I further decided to go with a USA-based reseller. The result was the nvr won't do what I need it to do, and the cameras have an inferior quality image compared to similar Dahua cameras. I first tried a single Dahua camera, and wow, the image looked like what I expected it to in the first place. I finally gave in and got a Dahua nvr and had it doing what I want within a few days. Not because there aren't any bugs, it's just that I can get my job done in spite of them. Again, I say this only in the context of the specific equipment I bought, and the way in which I use it. For another use scenario, the results might be opposite. If you do decide to go with LTS equipment, please look up my posting in the classifieds forum.

 

[TechBill]

you can always get an android streaming box and connect it to your TV and a cheap wireless baby audio monitor.

This way if you hear something, you can quickly flip source over to your streaming box that already running an ipcam app like Tinycampro to check on the baby or open up your smartphone and check the baby on it.

 

[tangent]

It's hard to be confident the exact location you're going to want a camera until you have the actual camera on hand and can do a little testing. When you run your cables, leave yourself a few feet of extra cable to allow some flexibility in the actual location when it comes time to mount the actual camera.

 

[jasauders]

If I could do it all over again, I would have sucked up some up-front costs instead of trying to do some things the cheaper way. Instead of salvaging POE injectors out of my tech recycle bin, I should have just accepted that it'll be a wiring nightmare and just get a POE switch. After getting a POE switch, all I could do was facepalm myself.

I'd also have spent more time reading into network cabling. I always knew CCA was kind of 'meh' but it wasn't until I really began to research it that I found what a difference it can make. Fortunately I only ever ran one CCA line, and it was short, so leveraging it as a pull line for a solid copper replacement was easy mode.