Internet to my detatched shop

[Keizer]

I want to extend my network out to my shop. It will be an underground run about 120' long. I own a skidsteer with a backhoe attachment so it's no big deal to trench over to my shop from the house. I've been researching fiber optic cable and think that I'd like to go this route. I'm starting to accumulate alot of ESP32 wireless smart devices out there and would like to add another AP for better performance. The metal on the shop seems to create some interference when my devices in the shop connect to the AP's in the house. Or it could just be the distance from the house to the shop.

Anyway while I have this ditch open and I'm running conduit, I was thinking about also running some more CAT 6 cable for a few more cameras inside and outside the shop. I was wondering if I should use fiber optic cable for this as well? How exactly would this work for the cameras? I'm assuming I would have to buy another pair of fiber to ethernet converters to be able to connect to my switch that connects all my cameras? I guess this would kill my POE from the switch and I'd have to use a power adapter for the cameras. Maybe if I have a solid fiber optic run to the shop and a dedicated shop AP I could run some wifi cameras as an alternative?

I'm just in the beginning/planning stage for this so I can do whatever at this point. I have never messed with fiber optic cable so I'm a little uneducated.

 

[tangent]

Anyway while I have this ditch open and I'm running conduit, I was thinking about also running some more CAT 6 cable for a few more cameras inside and outside the shop. I was wondering if I should use fiber optic cable for this as well? How exactly would this work for the cameras? I'm assuming I would have to buy another pair of fiber to ethernet converters to be able to connect to my switch that connects all my cameras? I guess this would kill my POE from the switch and I'd have to use a power adapter for the cameras. Maybe if I have a solid fiber optic run to the shop and a dedicated shop AP I could run some wifi cameras as an alternative?

You have lots of options. Just depends on your network topology and bandwidth requirements (can get faster fiber transceivers). If you add a small PoE switch in the shop, you could power cameras with that. A point to point wifi link is also an easier option.

There are many types of fiber optic cable, take some time to learn about them. In most cases, 2 stands of fiber are used for a single bidirectional link. You can custom order pre-terminated fiber that's the right length or pay someone to come terminate the fiber.

 

[bp2008]

A while back I wrote a short wiki page on fiber optics, intended to get people started on the learning curve. Fiber Optic Networking Primer

If you don't mind buying a brand you've never heard of before, there are a number of Chinese networking brands now that have been getting generally favorable reviews from servethehome and most of them have pretty great prices. For example this $94 switch (-$30 coupon = $64) has eight 2.5 Gbps PoE+ ports (120W total budget) and one SFP+ port capable of 10 gigabit speed over fiber optics. Not that long ago I was buying regular 1 Gbps PoE switches with no SFP slot for that price.

This one is probably a better fit for a shed or shop with a few IoT devices and cameras: $40 (-20% coupon = $32) for eight gigabit PoE ports. There are a few conflicting data points in the description such as the PoE power limit per port (15.4 vs 30 watts) and the SFP slot speed (SFP+ is 10 Gbps, SFP is only 1 Gbps or 1.25 Gbps as noted by many SFP transceivers). So I'm not sure exactly what they put in this cheaper model.

 

[Keizer]

So all my network gear is inside the house. Including the dedicated POE switch for all my cameras which is connected to my Blue Iris PC. I'm using a dual NIC setup on my BI PC. So if I added say four more cameras out in my detatched shop, wouldn't I have to bury four more runs of CAT 6 to my dedicated camera POE switch in the house? I get the part about adding a POE switch out in the shop to power the four cameras, and having that switch connected to the fiber optic cable going to the house router. That would add the new cameras to my network. But, I need these four shop cameras connected to my dedicated camera POE switch in the house which is connected to my BI PC via the 2nd NIC.

 

[Broachoski]

One ethernet run from your house POE switch to anther POE switch in the shop should work fine. I have several "daisy chained" with no issues.

 

[Keizer]

One ethernet run from your house POE switch to anther POE switch in the shop should work fine. I have several "daisy chained" with no issues.

Maybe a dumb question but if I daisy chained another POE switch to the main camera POE switch how is the power figured out? I assume the POE switch that I place in my shop will provide the power and my main camera POE switch in the house will be able to tell that power is being provided already??

Also how do the four shop camera IP addresses work with a single ethernet run from the shop POE switch to the camera POE switch in the house? Remember, my main camera POE switch in the house is not connected to the internet. It is connected to my BI PC to a 2nd NIC.

 

[Mike A.]

Your POE switch inside the house isn't involved as far as powering the remote cams. The new POE switch installed there would power the cams independent of it.

Working over the single connection is typical and how switches work. Addressing is independent of the physical cable and switching network. You can assign whatever IP addresses you want to the cams. i.e., if your BI/camera network is on 192.168.1.x, you'd give them addresses in that range and the rest of your BI/cam network in the house will see them just fine. Or not if you didn't want that. As above, lots of options. But at a basic level this is very simple. You're just extending your network just as you would be doing if you added another switch inside the house and connected it to your existing switch.

 

[looktall]

What size conduit are you planning to run?
50mm is a pretty good size that will allow plenty of room for additional cables later.
Just remember to run a pull string in the conduit for future pulls.

 

[TonyR]

Also how do the four shop camera IP addresses work with a single ethernet run from the shop POE switch to the camera POE switch in the house? Remember, my main camera POE switch in the house is not connected to the internet. It is connected to my BI PC to a 2nd NIC.

Connect BI's 2nd NIC (192.168.2.XXX for cameras) to the fiber media converter/switch in the house and in the shop connect the cameras to a POE switch which is fed by that same fiber media converter/switch. All cameras in the shop should be assigned unique static IP's in that same 192.168.2.XXX subnet.

Also connect another cable from your house's LAN (192.168.1.XXX which BI's NIC1 and your house Internet and Wi-Fi is connected to) to the fiber media converter/switch in the house; in the shop connect a AP for Wi-Fi in the shop. You can use a wireless router set to AP mode or assign the shop router a unique static IP in the same subnet as your house router but outside of the house router's DHCP pool and turn off the shop router's DHCP server. The house router will assign IP's on that 192.168.1.XXX subnet.

The media converter/switch doesn't care if cables from both subnets (192.168.1.XXX and 192.168.2.XXX) are connected, it will pass both.

 

[Keizer]

Just for clarity, this is my current setup.

 

[Mike A.]

The section where you have the blue line running to your IP camera switch with cameras attached... Copy that and connect the blue line to your IP camera switch. That's what you'd have (not showing media conversion, etc.).

 

[Keizer]

The section where you have the blue line running to your IP camera switch with cameras attached... Copy that and connect the blue line to your IP camera switch. That's what you'd have (not showing media conversion, etc.).

Like this? (not showing media conversion, etc.).

 

[Keizer]

What size conduit are you planning to run?
50mm is a pretty good size that will allow plenty of room for additional cables later.
Just remember to run a pull string in the conduit for future pulls.

Not sure on size yet. Bigger is better I always say.

 

[Mike A.]

Like this? (not showing media conversion, etc.).

Yep, that's it. Need to work out the details of the connection between the two switches but you're just extending that side of your network.

 

[tangent]

The fiber you choose should have at least 4 fibers, but it could easily have 6-12 fibers. If you assume 2 fibers per link, you still have plenty of flexibility.

VLANs are another way to segregate the cameras on your network. Similar results can be achieved with your IP addressing scheme in some cases, but there's nothing really to enforce it.

 

[Keizer]

VLANs are another way to segregate the cameras on your network. Similar results can be achieved with your IP addressing scheme in some cases, but there's nothing really to enforce it.

I prefer my cameras to not be connected to the internet at all. Which is why I prefer the 2nd NIC setup.

 

[Keizer]

Yep, that's it. Need to work out the details of the connection between the two switches but you're just extending that side of your network.

I basically want to add an AP in the shop as well as the four IP cameras. Is there an easy way to do this over one fiber run while maintaining my dual NIC security measure?

 

[tangent]

I prefer my cameras to not be connected to the internet at all. Which is why I prefer the 2nd NIC setup.

I understood that. You have 3 or 4 different ways to do that for cameras in your shop and can figure out the details later.

 

[looktall]

I basically want to add an AP in the shop as well as the four IP cameras. Is there an easy way to do this over one fiber run while maintaining my dual NIC security measure?

Will the ap be on your main network and the cameras be on your isolated second nic?
You can do that using vlans and managed switches.

But you should also be able to do it without vlans on an unmanaged switch as long as the two subjects are different.
Make sure all ip cameras have static addresses with the 2nd nic IP is set as the gateway and they should only ever talk devices on their own subnet.

 

[Keizer]

Will the ap be on your main network and the cameras be on your isolated second nic?

Yes, that's what I hope to accomplish over the one fiber run.
Here's another photo of how I envision the setup. The question is, how do I get the four shop cameras connected to the POE IP camera switch so they're isolated like the rest? In my diagram, the four shop cameras would be exposed to the internet.