IPC-HFW5231E-Z5E vs IPC-HFW5431E-Z5E same price

[gberte67]

Hello all, I'm planning to cover an outdoor area in a camping site. The first requirement is to cover the external area especially during the night. I guess I'll need from 15 to 20 camera to have all the zone covered.
I've searched for a model that accomplish to these requirement and I hope these are the right ones in the quality range needed. (Other models could be the IPC-HFW5231E-Z5E for long distance and IPC-HFW4231E-SE for short wide distance).
First question is:
1. since the same models with 2Mp or 4Mp seems to have the same price (Italian market) which one to choose between the two ? Have I to consider only the amount of space required for the storage (5 days 24H) or the 4Mp wins without any doubt ?
2. Since we have so many camera to use , are there any other models at lower price that could be take into account for this use ? we would to recognize person at around 200feet (60mt).
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[aristobrat]

Between the two, the 2MP Starlight model (5231) should do the best in low-light situations... its minimum illumination specs are significantly better than the 4MP model. The 2MP has a bigger image sensor (1/2.8" vs 1/3") and fewer pixels (2MP vs 4MP), all of which allow it to capture more light per pixel, which makes for a better night time image -- especially when motion is involved. Not going to say the 5231 is going to be perfect at night, but it should do a lot better than the 5431.

IPC-HFW5231E-Z5E(IPC-HFW5231EN-Z5E)
Minimum illumination: 0.05Lux/F1.4 ( Color,1/30s,30IRE)
Recognize: 85m(278ft)
Identify: 42m(138ft)

IPC-HFW5431E-Z5E
Minimum illumination: 0.3Lux/F1.4 (Color,1/30s,30IRE)
Recognize: 124m(406ft)
Identify: 62m(203ft)

Since you have a lot of cameras, you may be able to mix and match. You may have areas of your campground that have enough light at night for the 5431 to work OK.

For the links above, you may need to click on them twice for them to pull up.

 

[samplenhold]

As a n3wb here (still reading up on things):

Could the OP get similar night performance (to the 2MP starlight) out of the 4MP by flooding the area with an IR cannon?

 

[gberte67]

thanks a lot for these precise explaination , I was also not aware of what exactly indicates the DORI distances. The value of these distances are considered during the daylight or can be considered true also during the night ? or during the night I can consider to loose some meters (feets).
In your opinion do you think I could consider also others cheeper models or to be sure to have a usable result these are the correct models to look at.
(sorry to all for my bad english).

 

[Francisco73]

thanks a lot for these precise explaination , I was also not aware of what exactly indicates the DORI distances. The value of these distances are considered during the daylight or can be considered true also during the night ? or during the night I can consider to loose some meters (feets).
In your opinion do you think I could consider also others cheeper models or to be sure to have a usable result these are the correct models to look at.
(sorry to all for my bad english).

Do not trust promises of DORI and IR distances. If you have time order a couple of cameras first to test them before ordering more.

 

[awsum140]

I think the 5231 will easily outperform the 5431 at night but the easiest way to find out is get one of each and try them in your "worst case" and "best case" scenarios. There's a thread here, somewhere, comparing the two with video captures from each.

 

[looney2ns]

At the top of the page, in the wiki, study the cliff notes.
It includes a calculator to help determine what you need to ID a subject at said distance.

 

[gberte67]

thanks to all for the suggestions , I'm going to read the cliff notes... I'm at the beginning of the book but seems to have really a lot of information. thanks again to all.
I've seen that nobody suggest others model (low or high prices) so I guess to be on the best quality/price ratio with these models.

 

[awsum140]

You can save a few bucks with the 4231 series, fixed lens but same CMOS and performance. Problem is, don't make a mistake with the lens size. Cheaper cameras are just that, cheap cameras. They'll claim all sorts of wonderful performance specs, but when the rubber meets the road the Starvis series is the best bang for the buck hands down.

 

[looney2ns]

thanks to all for the suggestions , I'm going to read the cliff notes... I'm at the beginning of the book but seems to have really a lot of information. thanks again to all.
I've seen that nobody suggest others model (low or high prices) so I guess to be on the best quality/price ratio with these models.

I made a suggestion about cameras, study the wiki at the top of the page.

 

[Francisco73]

thanks to all for the suggestions , I'm going to read the cliff notes... I'm at the beginning of the book but seems to have really a lot of information. thanks again to all.
I've seen that nobody suggest others model (low or high prices) so I guess to be on the best quality/price ratio with these models.

I may be wrong but do you not actually want to identify people at 60 meters night time?

 

[gberte67]

Francisco73, I talked about 60 meters in the first post without know the DORI evaluation. In fact I used the term Recognize only as translation from italian language. Now to be more accurate I could say I would Identify at around 60 meter during night. In this case only looking at the specs maybe the HFW5231E-Z12E seems to be more compliant but as you already suggested before I'll go to order 2 different models to make some onsite check and evaluate what happen in real site. Maybe what I have in mind as "identify" could be in the middle between "recognize" and "identify".

Looking at the available camera on the italian market I found the IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6 that from the image point of view seems to have almost the same specs of IPC-HFW5231E-ZE. a little more focal lenght (13,5 vs 12,5) and IR distance (60mt vs 50mt) , both are 1/2.8” 2Megapixel progressive StarvisTM CMOS with same WDR and Starlight.
The difference more noticeable it seems to be the Alarm and audio interface (the 2213 miss this features) , the Streaming capability (2 vs 3) and ePOE .
I have still to evaluate if alarm and audio are really needed in my environment , I guess ePOE is not really necessary.

So in your opinion could I consider IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6 a valid alternative to IPC-HFW5231E-ZE (in term of price we have 131€ vs 195€ and this could be the camera that I'll use in most of the case)

 

[bigredfish]

The IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6 is not comparable to the HFW5231E-Z. It will not have the low light capabilities of the 5231.

CORRECTION: I was wrong
Actually the newer IPC-HFW2231R-ZS/VFS may well be comparable...
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/20107

I cant find the IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6 on the Dahua International site but did find it here and it does say it uses the same Starvis sensor
https://www.ipcam-shop.nl/media/downloads/DH-IPC-HFW2231R-ZSVFS.pdf

 

[gberte67]

i found the datasheet of IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6 (without /VFS the product in the italian market) on the following link that refer to dahua.com as you can see in the link below :

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj4_PWJyvbcAhUNLFAKHYVBBYYQFjAAegQIBBAC&url=https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/product/20180626/5_-DH-IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6---Datasheet_20180202.pdf&usg=AOvVaw14IKDn-Ypc9eIN7jSMLhqc

in the first link bigredFish posted above for dahua global site, the reference is IPC-HFW2231T-ZS/VFS so it is 2232T instead of 2232R . the specs seem exactly the same , the only difference I've seen is regarding the front of the camera where in the R model you can see 4 big IR led and in the T you see only a single glass window.

Searching in the dahua global site I found the HAC-HFW2231R-Z-IRE6 so it is HAC (hdcvi camera) instead IPC and Z (without SD card) instead ZS. The specs seems to be the same as written in the IPC datasheet.

Please someone else has some other info about this camera ?

 

[Francisco73]

i found the datasheet of IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6 (without /VFS the product in the italian market) on the following link that refer to dahua.com as you can see in the link below :

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj4_PWJyvbcAhUNLFAKHYVBBYYQFjAAegQIBBAC&url=https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/product/20180626/5_-DH-IPC-HFW2231R-ZS-IRE6---Datasheet_20180202.pdf&usg=AOvVaw14IKDn-Ypc9eIN7jSMLhqc

in the first link bigredFish posted above for dahua global site, the reference is IPC-HFW2231T-ZS/VFS so it is 2232T instead of 2232R . the specs seem exactly the same , the only difference I've seen is regarding the front of the camera where in the R model you can see 4 big IR led and in the T you see only a single glass window.

Searching in the dahua global site I found the HAC-HFW2231R-Z-IRE6 so it is HAC (hdcvi camera) instead IPC and Z (without SD card) instead ZS. The specs seems to be the same as written in the IPC datasheet.

Please someone else has some other info about this camera ?

I have bought HFW5231E-Z12 and am still testing it. Doubt it can identify people at 60 meters night time. There are others who know the subject better. Check the prices with Empiretech. He sells for less than 195 euro and gives 2 year warranty.

 

[pozzello]

identify people at 60m (180ft) at night? good luck. you'd need a very long lens (or big zoom, at least 50mm, giving you a very small field of view) and a LOT of IR, also at a very narrow angle -
doable, but not with any of the cams mentioned so far in this thread...

 

[Francisco73]

identify people at 60m (180ft) at night? good luck. you'd need a very long lens (or big zoom, at least 50mm, giving you a very small field of view) and a LOT of IR, also at a very narrow angle -
doable, but not with any of the cams mentioned so far in this thread...

I have read a claim that IR distance actually means the distance IR can be detected. In the case of HFW5231E-Z12 (65mm) 200 meters IR is mentioned by Dahua but will the camera detect anything at that distance? Think not.