It's my only option, what's best?

Mark_M

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I'm in the market to buy my first IP camera system. This system will be installed on the front of my house to cover a lawn and driveway. I'm only a teen ager with a limited budget as cameras are necessary for protection of my hobby. I do a large Christmas light display and I need cameras for observation, deterrents and as evidence should anything occur. I will make the display work for the cameras.

I'm looking at buying a Dahua kit from a company which includes two 4mp turrets, 4ch NVR and 1tb HDD. I've inquired about upgrading to a 2TB HDD and i'm likely to chose this option (NVR supports up to 6TB).
I'm not concerned if external IR floods are needed to compensate for the resolution and terrible 1/3 sensor size.

As much as people say not to buy Chinese models it's my only choice. My parents will only allow me to spend up to $600.

I'm planning on not needing remote access but I would like home network access.

What is your suggestion to make this work?

More on the physical setup if I post a thread.
Thank You for taking the time to read this thread :).
 

Barboots

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Talk to Andy. He will be able to quote on some combinations of global and China market products.

You could possibly shave some money off the hard drive? It doesn't sound like it would take many days before you notice that you need to export a section of footage. Maybe you have an adequate HDD on hand?

My neighbour has had settings "mysteriously" change on his internet connected China NVR-4xxx, so I'd be aiming for a global recorder at the very least.

Cheers,
Steve
 

Mark_M

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combinations of global and China market products.
I'm not able to unfortunately. Buying something from overseas isn't going to happen with my parents. The company is selling does include 1 year warranty (which NZ consumer laws require) which i'm using to my advantage for getting this system. They think the current 480TVL cameras are good.... I can't recognise a face from 1m away.

Maybe you have an adequate HDD on hand?
In terms of an HDD... I don't have anything to do with cameras already apart from a 500GB HDD from a analog system.

I would use motion detection and IVS but I would like to be able to record 24/7. According to the calculator I will get 11 days but I would like to increase. I'd rather have all footage and spend hours scrolling than miss it.
Thank you for your comment though :thumb:
 

mat200

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I'm in the market to buy my first IP camera system. ..
I'm looking at buying a Dahua kit from a company which includes two 4mp turrets, 4ch NVR and 1tb HDD. I've inquired about upgrading to a 2TB HDD and i'm likely to chose this option (NVR supports up to 6TB).
I'm not concerned if external IR floods are needed to compensate for the resolution and terrible 1/3 sensor size.
..
Hi @Mark_M

I highly recommend you NOT buy that kit. The 1/3" sensor is really going to give you poor results.

If you do not have good vendors locally in NZ, you will have few good options.
 

fenderman

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I highly recommend that you buy it. This way you will learn at a young age that you should not be penny wise and pound foolish.
 

VorlonFrog

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The reason we like @EMPIRETECANDY so much, is he's reliable, trustworthy, sells first-quality products, and ships immediately. I've mentioned to others Down Under that shipping from Hong Kong shouldn't require more than two days at most to arrive.
 

rocky500

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I would also buy 1 large looking camera, like a big box camera. Even if it is a fake one with a pulsing red led. Place it in a very obvious spot to be easily seen at night. Plus your working turrent cameras too.

I put up some dome cameras under the eves around 10 years ago and they are very hard to spot at night, so they are not a deterrent. Even knowing there there is hard to see them.
My car out front has people going through it about 2 times a year looking for items/money. I even leave it unlocked as they smashed my window once but now they just look all inside and leave.
I too currently am looking at improving the cameras by moving to Dahua IP cameras and have ordered one to test coming from empiretcandy.
 
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Arizona23

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Get two Dahua starlight turet IP cameras and microSD card slots. Read the wiki for details.
With a limited budget, grow into a BI system, while using web interface to the microSD cards until that is set up.
 

Mark_M

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I highly recommend that you buy it. This way you will learn at a young age that you should not be penny wise and pound foolish.
It's the only thing I can pass unfortunately. If I were able to get a bigger budget to actual fulfil the requirements i'd go all up with Axis. Considering that my parents think the current analog 480TVL Swann brand cameras are great I'm happy to get anything better, I will be dissapointed but there's nothing I can do.
It's at least not my money.

Hi @Mark_M

I highly recommend you NOT buy that kit. The 1/3" sensor is really going to give you poor results.

If you do not have good vendors locally in NZ, you will have few good options.
I did inquire with another company with proper licenced HikVision cameras and even the local technology store sells licenced Dahua but that would be around $1000 just for a camera and NVR. This kit is from a local seller but not the best, i'm installing them myself to save a terrible job being done.
I know that this image sensor is terrible but it's all I can get other than nothing.

The reason we like @EMPIRETECANDY so much, is he's reliable, trustworthy, sells first-quality products, and ships immediately. I've mentioned to others Down Under that shipping from Hong Kong shouldn't require more than two days at most to arrive.
I'm all for online shopping from overseas but this is a purchase my parents would only want to buy from a local seller with a warranty.



Thank you all for responses but it does seem that responses are shifting towards me getting something different when I said this is my only option...
 

Arizona23

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I can't comment for NZ, but @EMPIRETECANDY is available here thru Amazon. If you only want to purchase from a NZ distributor, I suspect that no one here can assist. As I said, get an IP cam with a microSD card, preferably a Dahua 5231.

You don't have to use an NVR. PC software control if you are really budget limited. I would not want any of those NVRs.
 
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mat200

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Thank you all for responses but it does seem that responses are shifting towards me getting something different when I said this is my only option...
HI @Mark_M

Help me out, I'm a bit confused why you posted here if you feel this is your only option?

Honestly, I think it is a bad purchase option considering how much better technology has come in security cameras since that 1/3" sensor was brought out.

If you are looking to watch over Christmas lights you will need good quality low light performance. To meet those specs, I would look at the Dahua 2MP starlight models or the newer 4Mp starlight+ models - or the Hikvision darkfighter models.

Perhaps it would be a better idea for you not to spend any money at this time buying a poor option, and instead wait a few years for better cameras to be sold by those NZ based vendors at a reasonable price. Costco I hear will be in NZ in a couple of years - and at least in the USA you can find security camera kits from them that have significantly better sensors than that 1/3" one.
 

Mark_M

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Thanks for the responses.
I am wanting to get a full system running with two cameras or at least one camera with a PTZ how ever knowing my parents the system will never be added to again.
Buying a low light camera is going to be an extra cost which will probably not happen.
I'm doing my best searching around still for better quality cameras but all seem to yield over the budget. The only thing closest I can get for a decent price is a HiLook (Hikvision sub brand) system with 4mp 1/2.8" sensor for around $750.
I don't know fully for Hikvision how to spot a chinese version in the product code but I'll search around myself for that.

If I had my own way of this whole installation I would get an 8ch 8mp NVR (future profed) with alarm IO and the best low light cameras I could get. (Alarm IO for external sensors and the display light controller tamper).

I won't make this thread turn in the wrong direction from my original question "what can I do". It is still very likely that the Dahua system will be purchased and I'll be needing advice on configuring it to work decent enough.
I'm doing my best in convincing to go for better but it may not work. I'm disappointed before i've even got something but anything will be better than the current analog ones.
 

mat200

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Thanks for the responses.
I am wanting to get a full system running with two cameras or at least one camera with a PTZ how ever knowing my parents the system will never be added to again.
Buying a low light camera is going to be an extra cost which will probably not happen.
I'm doing my best searching around still for better quality cameras but all seem to yield over the budget. The only thing closest I can get for a decent price is a HiLook (Hikvision sub brand) system with 4mp 1/2.8" sensor for around $750.
I don't know fully for Hikvision how to spot a chinese version in the product code but I'll search around myself for that.

If I had my own way of this whole installation I would get an 8ch 8mp NVR (future profed) with alarm IO and the best low light cameras I could get. (Alarm IO for external sensors and the display light controller tamper).

I won't make this thread turn in the wrong direction from my original question "what can I do". It is still very likely that the Dahua system will be purchased and I'll be needing advice on configuring it to work decent enough.
I'm doing my best in convincing to go for better but it may not work. I'm disappointed before i've even got something but anything will be better than the current analog ones.
Wait for Costco to come to Auckland and pick up something from them, at least in the USA you have a good return policy and that gives you time to test things and return if they do not work out.
 

tigerwillow1

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It might help if you could post the model # of the cameras and NVR in case somebody on the forum can give specific feedback for those models. Don't spend too much for that disk upgrade. As an example, one USA vendor (Newegg) is currently listing the Western Digital Purple 1 TB drive for $53, and the 2 TB drive for $68. Does the vendor disclose the firmware upgrade limitations for the chinese models? I'm not meaning to say this is a horrible problem, it's just something you should be aware of as part of the decision process.
 

IAmATeaf

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You’re trying to cram too much into a tight budget. I would get either a decent NVR or a pc and Bi ad the use tat as a base onto which to build.
 

Mark_M

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It might help if you could post the model # of the cameras and NVR in case somebody on the forum can give specific feedback for those models. Don't spend too much for that disk upgrade. As an example, one USA vendor (Newegg) is currently listing the Western Digital Purple 1 TB drive for $53, and the 2 TB drive for $68. Does the vendor disclose the firmware upgrade limitations for the chinese models? I'm not meaning to say this is a horrible problem, it's just something you should be aware of as part of the decision process.
The cameras are model IPC-HDW4433C and the NVR model isn't mentioned but I predict it is NVR2104HS-P-S2.
In terms of HDD; The seller is fairly expensive when purchasing separately but within the kit it is far cheaper than other places. It is WD purple drives and not other branded ones.


In terms of firmware, nothing mentioned about upgrading but the model which sparked alarm bells. It is described as multi language but that doesn't mean anything for upgrading.
The seller is including 1 year warranty for everything which is the minimum NZ consumer laws allows for this price of item, does also spark alarms bells.

The main problem I have is that once its purchased, it'll never be added to again unless i'm the one spending money on it. Considering my parents think the current analog Swann Brand system is good tells you their concern about better cameras...
The only plan I have to add is a mini PTZ at my expense and possibly a mini dome at the front door.

You’re trying to cram too much into a tight budget. I would get either a decent NVR or a pc and Bi ad the use tat as a base onto which to build.
I'm wanting to get a whole better system but the problem is that a working system is needed now and not be be purchased in parts. I'm looking around at other kits from more reputable places although it is still a lot more.
I am wanting to get a dedicated NVR than Blue iris simply for ongoing costs and having to battle windows (I'd just run a version of linux).


Not too sure if it would be cheaper and worthwhile to purchase an NVR without a switch and then purchase a PoE switch on top, I'll look into this.

Thank you for the replies. I am trying my best in searching around and quotes from places (without install).
 

fenderman

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The cameras are model IPC-HDW4433C and the NVR model isn't mentioned but I predict it is NVR2104HS-P-S2.
In terms of HDD; The seller is fairly expensive when purchasing separately but within the kit it is far cheaper than other places. It is WD purple drives and not other branded ones.


In terms of firmware, nothing mentioned about upgrading but the model which sparked alarm bells. It is described as multi language but that doesn't mean anything for upgrading.
The seller is including 1 year warranty for everything which is the minimum NZ consumer laws allows for this price of item, does also spark alarms bells.

The main problem I have is that once its purchased, it'll never be added to again unless i'm the one spending money on it. Considering my parents think the current analog Swann Brand system is good tells you their concern about better cameras...
The only plan I have to add is a mini PTZ at my expense and possibly a mini dome at the front door.


I'm wanting to get a whole better system but the problem is that a working system is needed now and not be be purchased in parts. I'm looking around at other kits from more reputable places although it is still a lot more.
I am wanting to get a dedicated NVR than Blue iris simply for ongoing costs and having to battle windows (I'd just run a version of linux).


Not too sure if it would be cheaper and worthwhile to purchase an NVR without a switch and then purchase a PoE switch on top, I'll look into this.

Thank you for the replies. I am trying my best in searching around and quotes from places (without install).
Yes, ignore all the advice given to you. Again learn the hard way. Its cute that you think you are getting a 1 year warranty from the seller.
There is nothing about windows that you have to battle.
Leave the old system in place, you will be better off.
 

tigerwillow1

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I've been assuming your $600 ceiling is US dollars. If it's NZ dollars, my recommendation doesn't fly.

I use a bunch of 4431 series chinese cameras that have been 100% reliable. Except for a poorer night image, they are every bit the equal of the 2Mp starlights. I wouldn't, however, be so presumptuous to assume the 4433 series is just as good, so I can't make a first-hand recommendation. The firmware upgrade issue is that the chinese cameras that speak english have "hacked" firmware. It doesn't hamper their operation at all, it's just that you can't apply any firmware updates. They will brick the camera and/or revert it to chinese only. This is not necessarily a significant problem, just something you need to be aware of. Another risk you have is the fixed focal length. The 4433 turrets I've noticed are only 2.8 or 3.6 mm (maybe there's a 6mm option I haven't seen). If you guess the wrong focal length for your application you've wasted that camera. I started out buying 2 different focal lengths to use for pre-purchase testing as I added more cameras. Sounds like you don't have that luxury available. To throw out an option, here's something I just pulled off of our favorite Dahua seller's (Andy, forum member EMPIRETECANDY) aliexpress site:
NVR4108-8P-4Ks2 $168 8 channel nvr with 8 POE ports
HDW2231R-ZS $125 2MP starlight turret with zoom (no audio, however)

The NVR and 2 cameras takes you to $418. With a $600 ceiling that leaves $182 for the hard disk and cables. The 2231 camera has had enough good feedback that I don't have any reservations about it. I don't have a feel for the 4108 NVR, so I'd seek out some user feedback on that before buying. If you could pull this off you would have a much better system that the one you're looking at. Andy is in China and there has been totally positive feedback about his reliability and service. Check out his aliexpress page. You can tell it to display NZ$ is you'd like. Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com
You don't have to actually buy over aliexpress. If you have a paypal account you can use forum messaging and paypal. My guess is that the system you're looking at will work out ok, but you can do better with a $600 USD budget. (Actually, I rate the fixed focal length of the 4433s as your biggest risk). In the dark, the image differences are significant. Here are a couple of threads that have image comparisons of the 4431 series 4MP cameras and the 2MP starlights:
Comparison of IPC-HFW5231E-Z and IPC-HFW4431R-Z
Comparison of mini bullet HFW-4231E-SE with 3 other cameras
The 4433 image could possibly be as good as the 4431, but then again, it might not be.
 

reeves1985

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@Mark_M Why won't you listen to the sound advice given to you by the well respected members of this forum.

@fenderman is very well respected and know his stuff, I would highly recommend you listen, think and process what he and all the rest of us are telling you!

That's the being nice part out of the way because you are new. Now the blunt and to the point part.

You are intending to buy shit!
You may as well put the money down the toilet.

Technology has come a long way and specifically here we have a very VERY good vendor that supplies oem Dahua products at a very reasonable price and WILL ship to you and even back it up with warranty!

If you DO NOT want help then why come here. What you are proposing is junk, useless crap that will serve no other purpose than to relieve you of what by the sounds of it is a lot of cash you cant afford to spend.

You can get the highly recommended 5231 camera for 165$ USD and it will be st you door within a week.
Heck you can buy 3 of those and a NVR or a Blue iris machine and be well equipped and happy.

I really do not get why you are here if you are just going to disregard the good information given to you.
 
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