Looking for opinions on my options for LPR install locations.

[Ri22o]

I am finally getting around to installing my two HFW5241E-Z12E cameras as LPRs.

I live on a street that is part of a loop. So I, unfortunately, am not in a one-way-in / one-way-out scenario. We also only have rear license plates. The neighborhood is newer so the trees are not tall enough to not be as much of a nuisance yet. Short of building a box by the mailbox, or in the middle of the yard, I have limited "ideal" locations to install the cameras. I am also concerned if I go too low with the install height that the road will inevitably be blocked by cars parked in driveways.

LPR, South
I don't feel too bad about the placement of this one. I have watched cars drive through today and it seems to be in a reasonable location and I do have some room to adjust tot he left as the tree on the right side of the frame grows. My main concern is going too much more to the left and getting the reflective speed limit sign in the frame.

LPR, North
This is the one I am mostly concerned with. With the current mounting location there are two options. The current option is the red area on the attached satellite image. The other option is the yellow area.
The red area gives a better angle but will likely, eventually be obstructed by the neighbor's trees. I also cannot adjust any more to the left to avoid the right tree from being in the frame. The car in the screenshot is parked and is normally parked there.
The yellow area is better in the long term, but gives a steeper angle against the street and license plates.

I have attached screen shots of the LPRs and their overview cameras. Is the yellow area even worth testing?

 

[Timokreon]

I would set up a test for the yellow to the north. I have a pretty difficult angle on my current LPR, at about 100', and still pick up 95% of the plates.
The red lines, with those trees, I'm guessing you'll have 5 years or more before any troubles. A lot depends on what kind of trees they are.

 

[Ri22o]

I would set up a test for the yellow to the north. I have a pretty difficult angle on my current LPR, at about 100', and still pick up 95% of the plates.
The red lines, with those trees, I'm guessing you'll have 5 years or more before any troubles. A lot depends on what kind of trees they are.

I am assuming they are Autumn Blaze Maples. So not huge, but also not small.

I'm over it for today as it is cold and windy, but will mess with the settings tonight in the red zone and then move to the yellow zone tomorrow and see how it looks.

 

[Timokreon]

I hear ya on the cold and wind. Best of luck.

 

[Ri22o]

I hear ya on the cold and wind. Best of luck.

I was able to grab some images on the LPR South cam, and think I will be happy with it after some tweaking.

The LPR North cam is another thing. I am having issues with the camera not being triggered when cars drive by. I have lost at least 5+ examples from when it didn't trigger. Any suggestions on image capture trigger settings?

I also moved LPR North to shoot at the yellow area and I think it's too perpendicular to the road to reliably trigger or give a good image. If I zoom out any more I will have the same right-side-of-the-frame tree now on the left side. I am going to try and mount it on the same corner as LPR South and see if I can get a better angle up the street.

And, going back to trigger settings, I am getting only a couple images with the car in them (1 of the entire car and a couple not usable) and about 10 of just the road. I am guessing this has to do with the pre/post trigger settings? Do I also need to zoom out to give it more time to recognize the car and start snapshotting?

 

[wittaj]

At the tight zooms we run LPR cameras, IVS rules are problematic. You have to go with simple motion detection, especially at night.

If you zoom out wide enough so that the camera IVS can recognize a car, then you probably are too small to read the plate.

 

[Ri22o]

At the tight zooms we run LPR cameras, IVS rules are problematic. You have to go with simple motion detection, especially at night.

If you zoom out wide enough so that the camera IVS can recognize a car, then you probably are too small to read the plate.

As far as I know I am just using simple motion detection. On the Record tab I set image capture to trigger on motion. Is there another way I should be doing this?

 

[wittaj]

Are you just using an SD card or another VMS like NVR or BI?

You probably need to adjust the sensitivity.

 

[Ri22o]

Are you just using an SD card or another VMS like NVR or BI?

You probably need to adjust the sensitivity.

Blue Iris.

 

[wittaj]

It takes some trial and error in BI, but setting up a zone works well. You will have to run a separate night profile and make the target a lot smaller as most will only see head/tail lights and the plate on the image. My target at night is about the size of the plate.

Here is my setup and you can see from the alert images, I am getting them. In my case, it was draw a zone where I did so that the cars going right to left, I catch the front plate, and cars going left to right, I catch the back plate. It is some trial and error to get the FOV and zone line drawn to where you get them, but you see the idea in how to get it to trigger an alert with the vehicle in the frame. I do zoom in at night as this FOV for nightime was just a little too wide, but it is fine for daytime.

And then if you only wanted to catch vehicles going in one direction, simply add another zone to account for that.



What I found was that the tail lights were still bright enough to trigger even at night. But you have to make the object size A LOT smaller since the image is black and all you see are the head/tail lights and plate.

 

[Ri22o]

It takes some trial and error in BI, but setting up a zone works well. You will have to run a separate night profile and make the target a lot smaller as most will only see head/tail lights and the plate on the image. My target at night is about the size of the plate.

Here is my setup and you can see from the alert images, I am getting them. In my case, it was draw a zone where I did so that the cars going right to left, I catch the front plate, and cars going left to right, I catch the back plate. It is some trial and error to get the FOV and zone line drawn to where you get them, but you see the idea in how to get it to trigger an alert with the vehicle in the frame. I do zoom in at night as this FOV for nightime was just a little too wide, but it is fine for daytime.

And then if you only wanted to catch vehicles going in one direction, simply add another zone to account for that.

View attachment 143309

What I found was that the tail lights were still bright enough to trigger even at night. But you have to make the object size A LOT smaller since the image is black and all you see are the head/tail lights and plate.

View attachment 143310

Awesome info, thanks. Once I get them finish mounted I will start with all of this. I think I am happy with the one's location, I just need to keep dicking around with the other. It's looking like I might move it to the other corner of the house and give it a go there. I was just hoping to be a bit more inconspicuous with them since they aren't small and I already look like I'm running a prison.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah LOL. Just paint them to blend in and most won't notice LOL.

 

[Timokreon]

Looks like some of your captures are a bit blurry. Might need to adjust settings as well, such as shutter speed, etc.. that makes a huge difference.

As for capturing at difficult angles, I'll post a pic of what I've been able to get and a site like PlateRecognizer has been able to identify. This is at around 90', zoom and settings do make a lot of difference.
Another is a night capture in color. I'm close to being able to consistently get these, and ordered another LPR cam to capture (hopefully) in color from the other direction.

Then there are the new plates being manufactured. Difficult to pick up.

 

[Ri22o]

Looks like some of your captures are a bit blurry. Might need to adjust settings as well, such as shutter speed, etc.. that makes a huge difference.

As for capturing at difficult angles, I'll post a pic of what I've been able to get and a site like PlateRecognizer has been able to identify. This is at around 90', zoom and settings do make a lot of difference.
Another is a night capture in color. I'm close to being able to consistently get these, and ordered another LPR cam to capture (hopefully) in color from the other direction.

Then there are the new plates being manufactured. Difficult to pick up.

Focus, shutter speeds, etc do definitely still need to be set. I am trying to get them located and mounted and will then start messing with all of that stuff. I just wanted to make sure I could see what I wanted to see before I went crazy trying to perfect the image in the wrong spot.

I took this one earlier, so LPR South still looks promising. I still have some messing around to do with it though.

 

[Timokreon]

Gotcha, completely glossed over the fact you were still dialing in positions.
South is looking good. Night time is the big factor.

Least the weather is a lot better today and for this weekend. I have another LPR to put up this weekend.

 

[samplenhold]

Make sure you record 24/7 so that even if you don't get a trigger, you still get the video. I have some issues with my LPR West cam at night not getting triggered when the cars do not have big enough taillights.

Also check out these threads. They are a little older and do not address triggers, but it may help you.

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Ri22o]

I feel this would be one of those tasks that would be easier if I had someone lending a hand who even remotely knew what they were doing, haha. I am tired of all the back and forth between the NVR, my PC, the camera, the NVR, the PC...

 

[Timokreon]

Have a phone you can use with a VPN, like wireguard? That's how I set mine up... though a bit tricky not to drop the phone while looking.

 

[Ri22o]

Have a phone you can use with a VPN, like wireguard? That's how I set mine up... though a bit tricky not to drop the phone while looking.

When I was on the ladder earlier my daughter kept asking why I was staring down at her. I wasn't. I had my phone on the top of the ladder and was looking at TinyCam as I adjusted the camera.

 

[wittaj]

When I was on the ladder earlier my daughter kept asking why I was staring down at her. I wasn't. I had my phone on the top of the ladder and was looking at TinyCam as I adjusted the camera.

Wait until it is time to dial in the focus and you hand her the keys and say go drive and stop when I tell you LOL