mailbox cam - what LPR camera?

Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
Washington, DC
I'm going to hide a camera on my mailbox specifically dedicated to LPR. What is the current recommendation? Seems like everyone pushes for the Dahua HFW5241E-Z12E but I was wondering if there was anything newer, with a bigger sensor that performs better?

The camera doesn't need a ton of zoom, as it's right next to the road. Long time lurker, finally ready to pull the trigger on the mailbox camera! Saw the birdhouse one, as well as some other mailbox ones and am super excited to get this going.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,868
Reaction score
48,500
Location
USA
For LPR purposes, the bigger sensor is irrelevant unless you have a ton of nighttime light that you can run color with high shutter speeds.

Keep in mind most companies are still using analog LPR cameras. The extra benefits of a bigger sensor would be wasted on this purpose. Heck, we are not using most of the capabilities of the Z12 as it is.

My neighbor is using this one with good success on his mailbox and didn't care so he didn't hide it LOL (car would have to be within 30 feet or so to get good caps - after about 40 feet the accuracy drops off):

 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
7,413
Reaction score
25,995
Location
Spring, Texas
The camera doesn't need a ton of zoom, as it's right next to the road.
The reason to use a lot of zoom is to get as big a picture of the plate as possible. The more pixels on the plate, the better the image will be.

All things being equal, a bigger sensor will allow better images, even with IR I would think. This would allow faster shutter speeds at night to freeze the plate image.

I am using two HDW5241E-Z12E for LPR since I have had to place the cams about 80-90 feet from the capture points. But I am using a B5442E-Z4E (8-32mm) as an overview of the intersection from a different position, which is about 55 feet to the intersection. I get good info at night on car color, brand, model, etc. I also get good shots of plates. These examples are test shots fresh out of the box with only defaults set.

INTS.20200719_204723169_1.jpgINTS.20200719_205238575_1.jpgINTS.20200719_210707841_1.jpgINTS.20200719_210759091_1.jpgINTS.20200719_212123875_1.jpg
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,868
Reaction score
48,500
Location
USA
Must be nice to have that much nighttime light and cars not going to fast - what shutter speed you running? Are these pics from the Z4E?
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
Washington, DC
Seems like the zoom will more than make up for having a smaller sensor size. Here's where the cam will go, along with a car and human for scale. The street is pitch black at night. Speeds are 25mph or lower.
 

Attachments

Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
7,413
Reaction score
25,995
Location
Spring, Texas
what shutter speed you running? Are these pics from the Z4E?
Yes, those were from test shots using the B5442E-Z4E. Those were on auto as I was just trying out locations. That black pole is a street light, though it is one of those that give an orange glow so not too bright. The position is helping, being at the stop sign and folks have to slow down to turn. Still waiting to actually install. Waiting for temps to go below 95F since I have to run cable in the attic.
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
Washington, DC
So when I look at these two cameras, would the Z4E be the better in low-light LPR applications? Better WDR, higher resolution at faster FPS? Or should I just get the Z12E like everyone suggests, even though it has a lower WDR?

IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E
4MP IR Vari-focal Bullet WizMind Network Camera
1/1.8” 4Megapixel progressive scan CMOS
25/30 fps@2688 × 1520, 50/60 fps@1080P (1920 × 1080)
WDR (140 dB), Day/Night (ICR), 3D DNR, AWB, AGC, BLC
8 mm–32 mm motorized lens
Max. IR LEDs Length 120 m

IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E
2MP IR Vari-focal Bullet WizMind Network Camera
1/2.8” 2Megapixel progressive scan STARVIS™ CMOS
25/30 fps@1080P (1920 × 1080)
WDR (120 dB), Day/Night (ICR), 3D DNR, AWB, AGC, BLC
5.3 mm–64.0 mm motorized lens
Max. IR LEDs Length 150 m
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,868
Reaction score
48,500
Location
USA
Oh yea, a 13.5mm varifocal will be sufficient on the mailbox! Z12 would be overkill from a zoom perspective unless you were mounting on the house.

Since you are pitch black, the larger sensor with higher MP is not needed.
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
Washington, DC
So you are going to put it in the mailbox? Please do a 'case study' thread on making the box, getting the cables to the cams, and the final videos when you are done. Folks will love to see how it worked out.
Absolutely. I already wired up a small bullet cam under there (with a radar detector for speed!) and live-tweeted pictures of speeders overlayed with speed. Unfortunately hikvision camera I used was terrible at night, even with tweaking all the settings. And I accidentally hit the cat6 cable with a shovel so the whole project got scrapped. This will be version 2.0 with a real dedicated LPR cam.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,868
Reaction score
48,500
Location
USA
Yes, those were from test shots using the B5442E-Z4E. Those were on auto as I was just trying out locations. That black pole is a street light, though it is one of those that give an orange glow so not too bright. The position is helping, being at the stop sign and folks have to slow down to turn. Still waiting to actually install. Waiting for temps to go below 95F since I have to run cable in the attic.
So what do you need the Z12 LPR for LOL - those are great captures. Is it getting other stretches of the road?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,868
Reaction score
48,500
Location
USA
Absolutely. I already wired up a small bullet cam under there (with a radar detector for speed!) and live-tweeted pictures of speeders overlayed with speed. Unfortunately hikvision camera I used was terrible at night, even with tweaking all the settings. And I accidentally hit the cat6 cable with a shovel so the whole project got scrapped. This will be version 2.0 with a real dedicated LPR cam.
Even with a shutter speed of 1/1,000 or 1/2,000 you couldn't get pics with the Hik?
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,691
Location
New Jersey
And I accidentally hit the cat6 cable with a shovel so the whole project got scrapped. This will be version 2.0 with a real dedicated LPR cam.


I hope you're going to use some conduit this time. PVC is cheap!
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
7,413
Reaction score
25,995
Location
Spring, Texas
Night time no way - the headlights completely blow everything out
That video does not help, no cars with plates to consider. Realize that the goal of LPR is to get plates, period. Do not expect a cam used for LPR to be able to do double duty. At night, it gets B&W with IR and fast shutter speeds. Check out the LPR forum here.

Also, read the Cliff Notes.
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
7,413
Reaction score
25,995
Location
Spring, Texas
So what do you need the Z12 LPR for LOL - those are great captures. Is it getting other stretches of the road?
I live on a corner of a T intersection. One cam pointed towards the intersection facing East. The other cam pointed away from the intersection facing West. Most cars here in TX have both front and rear plates. The planned install will get all plates except rear plates on cars coming from the East or West and taking the turn to the north, It will not get plates on cars coming from the North and turning in either direction (East or West) on the T, but it should get the rear plates from one of the cams.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,868
Reaction score
48,500
Location
USA
That video does not help, no cars with plates to consider. Realize that the goal of LPR is to get plates, period. Do not expect a cam used for LPR to be able to do double duty. At night, it gets B&W with IR and fast shutter speeds. Check out the LPR forum here.

Also, read the Cliff Notes.
And along these lines, most of us have a completely black image at night. All I see are the head/tail lights and the plate...nothing else - no outline of the car, no people, no street or sidewalk, just the plate.20200824_211950.jpg
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
Washington, DC
Thanks for the help everyone. So with the camera position being so close to the road, does it make sense to get the less-zoomy IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,868
Reaction score
48,500
Location
USA
I am a fan of more zoom - can never have enough LOL, but in your location, if you can get by with a cheaper Dahua cam that has at least 13.5mm varifocal, you should be fine.
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
7,413
Reaction score
25,995
Location
Spring, Texas
So with the camera position being so close to the road, does it make sense to get the less-zoomy IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E?
There does not seem to be very many folks giving you help here. Personally, I believe that you can get a lot of information from this forum, but the ultimate decision has to be yours. Giving you specific directions on settings or procedures is one thing. But telling you to purchase one cam over another, when both are really good, that is something only you can decide.

Like @wittaj has tried to steer you towards a standard varifocal (at least 13.5mm), I would say that any of the Dahua varifocal cams would PROBABLY work for you.

As far as the zoom is concerned, the only way to figure out how much zoom you need is to test it. Do you have a standard varifocal cam you could test with? Something along the lines of the 2.7-13.5mm? You are trying to get enough zoom to just get the width of the street, and even a little less maybe, but at a good angle to not foreshorten the plate to the point it can not be read, and the plate is in view long enough to get enough frames recorded. Also, the distance needs to be within the IR range of the cam or if you install a separate IR source, within it's range.

If you test with a 2.7-13.5mm or something similar, you should be able to tell if that cam has enough zoom for you. If it is not enough, the Z4E is 8-32mm and the Z12E is 5-60mm.

Thought process: When I was contemplating LPR, I spent a lot of time on my front porch and in the street taking pictures and thinking about possible cam locations. The first consideration for me was angle of attack. Where could I place cams that would not give me too high an angle. Once I found a good location, I used a DSLR cam to test the angle and approx zoom needed. I used a laser range finder I have for shooting to get decent distances for IR info. It looked like to me that I could used the 5241 Z12E cams for that job. So I bought one to test it out in both positions. I knew that if It proved not to work, that I could sell it here and recoup most of what I paid for it. It worked and I purchased the second one. I have constructed a garden box to house the cams. I am waiting for cooler temps to finish the install.

As far as testing the position for my overview cam for the LPRs, I used an old 5231 varifocal turret that I had replace with a 6mm 5442 turret on my driveway. That cam told me that I needed a little more zoom than the 13.5mm. I also tested with a 5442 2.8mm turret that had not yet been installed on my front porch. That cam told me that the 5442 series would give me good enough night color performance to get color, make, model etc. So I ordered the B5442E-Z4E for that job. It will get installed at the same time as the LPR cams once the temps get cooler.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Top