Narrowing down on the best PTZ dome camera for my application.

[TheWhiteKnight]

It's a tall order but i'm on the hunt for the best brand, model and price with the following required specs:

At least 2MP & H.265
At least 20-30x Optical Zoom
At least IK08
Motorized Varifocal PTZ
Newest 2017 models and no glare issues preferably.

Onboard storage and Audio/Alarm inputs or built in is a nice bonus. Auto-Tracking not needed but neat. Low light performance and image stabilization is a must. Intelligence features such as the Ultra Series would seal the deal.

I'm currently in purchase paralysis. I own a Hikvision bullet that is sufficient for my side lot but this application will be for the front where a ton of action will be. Evidentiary quality is therefore important as it will monitor hundreds of people entering my building from around 50ft away.

After wasting a day investigating Hikvision models and reading about their beef with IPVM I lost respect and interest in their products. I'm now looking at Dahua and LTS. I think they offer a better value proposition than Axis. Quality matters most since this will serve me for at least half a decade but price is a close second in priority.

My list is incomplete but so far it looks like this:

$300 Dahua SD49225T-HN

$388 Dahua SD50220S-HN

$420 Dahua SD59230U-HNI 25x

$459 Hikvision DS-2DE4220-AE

$468 Dahua SD50230S-HN 30x

*$490 LTS PTZIP212X20

$540 Dahua SD59225U-HNI

$575 Dahua DH-SD59230T-HN

All advice and suggestions/recommendations are sincerely appreciated.

Please help me find the unicorn!

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

So I stopped looking at bullets because they aren't really designed for PTZ which I discovered is what I really need.

I avoided turrets because they aren't vandal rated and because the sun will be hitting the camera directly from the left which shouldn't be too problematic after WDR compensates. I'll tape a piece of cardboard next to it or fashion a little cover if I have to just to protect the camera from rocks and other vandalism. If the lens in a turret is hit by a rock you're done.

My list after 2 days started like this:

$300 Dahua SD49225T-HN 25x (Turret)

$420 Dahua SD59230U-HNI 25x (Turret)


$460 Dahua SD50220S-HN 20x (Dome) (CCTV-MALL)

$460 Hikvision DS-2DE4220-AE eBay

*$493 LTS PTZIP212X20 20x (Same as Hikvision above)


$520 Dahua SD59225U-HNI (Turret) 25x

*$538 Dahua SD50230S-HN 30x (Dome) (CCTV-MALL) (Could be had from china for less about $500).

$575 SD59230T-HN 30x (Turret)


Then today I got it down to just these 3:

$460 Dahua SD50220S-HN 20x (Dome) (CCTV-MALL)

$460 Hikvision DS-2DE4220-AE eBay

*$493 LTS PTZIP212X20 20x (Same as Hikvision above)

2 of these don't come with brackets (a $10-$15 expense) and the support for LTS if purchased from an authorized seller is great. LTS is a rebrand of Hikvision I learned but that's okay because they are friendlier apparently.

Conclusion:

I'm getting the LTS PTZIP212X20. While the Dahua SD50230S-HN is more powerful and close to the price I do not want to wait for it to come from china, deal with the lack of support, potential chinese firmware or knockoffs.

Buying locally is important. Ramon at A1SecurityCameras was amazing and I highly recommend anyone stuck in purchase paralysis like I was to give him a call at extension 120. They can get almost everything even if it isn't on the website. They ship out of Dallas and offer free shipping, 30 day returns and great support!

Not bad for an amateur DIY'er eh?

 

[fenderman]

I'm getting the LTS PTZIP212X20. While the Dahua SD50230S-HN is more powerful and close to the price I do not want to wait for it to come from china, deal with the lack of support, potential chinese firmware or knockoffs.

Buying locally is important. Ramon at A1SecurityCameras was amazing and I highly recommend anyone stuck in purchase paralysis like I was to give him a call at extension 120. They can get almost everything even if it isn't on the website. They ship out of Dallas and offer free shipping, 30 day returns and great support!

Not bad for an amateur DIY'er eh?

fyi, lts sells that camera for 399....
also note that the camera has no ir...

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

I was actually planning to take advantage of their 25% sale on it too but you have to have an account to buy directly from them so I gave up. As far as I know they don't sell directly to consumers at LTSSecurityInc dot com.

I was unaware that it has no IR, that's a big deal so thank you for the heads up! Can you recommend a model with all the same features + IR even if a little more expensive?

 

[fenderman]

I was actually planning to take advantage of their 25% sale on it too but you have to have an account to buy directly from them so I gave up. As far as I know they don't sell directly to consumers at LTSSecurityInc dot com.

I was unaware that it has no IR, that's a big deal so thank you for the heads up! Can you recommend a model with all the same features + IR even if a little more expensive?

First, determine if a ptz is even the correct camera....will you be manning the ptz? will you have sensors to trigger it to move to a preset? if not, whats the point?

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

It's for a commercial installation for my club and yes I will be manning it. When I'm not manning it, it will be fixed to the front door and react to line crossing detection etc. The additional benefit is the ability to pan and catch plates at the nearby stop sign behind it if needed and to let passerby's know that I can see everything up and down the street instead of only where a bullet is pointing. I have a fixed lens bullet now for my side lot and started my search expecting to get a bullet until I realized the benefits of PTZ would be worth it. The need to monitor and zoom in on cars parked on both side of the street during events is critical.

 

[fenderman]

It's for a commercial installation for my club and yes I will be manning it. When I'm not manning it, it will be fixed to the front door and react to line crossing detection etc. The additional benefit is the ability to pan and catch plates at the nearby stop sign behind it if needed and to let passerby's know that I can see everything up and down the street instead of only where a bullet is pointing. I have a fixed lens bullet now for my side lot and started my search expecting to get a bullet until I realized the benefits of PTZ would be worth it. The need to monitor and zoom in on cars parked on both side of the street during events is critical.

seems to me that you would be much better off with 3-4 fixed cameras...ptz can only point in one direction at a time..

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

I plan on adding a second PTZ facing the other direction on the opposite corner of the building. I only need 2, one facing each direction. Aside from when i'm manning it, it will stay fixed at the door and street. It's a single one way street so I only need to see each direction. The second may end up being a bullet, maybe with license plate capturing abilities but i'm almost certain the benefits of a PTZ make it ideal for my application. Is there not an option with IR in a reasonable price range? Perhaps if I can get LTS to sell it to me I can just buy an illuminator with the savings. There is a single street light very close to the camera. I know relying on street lighting alone is a no-no but I do plan on adding bright motion lights for added security eventually anyway.

 

[fenderman]

I plan on adding a second PTZ facing the other direction on the opposite corner of the building. I only need 2, one facing each direction. Aside from when i'm manning it, it will stay fixed at the door and street. It's a single one way street so I only need to see each direction. The second may end up being a bullet, maybe with license plate capturing abilities but i'm almost certain the benefits of a PTZ make it ideal for my application. Is there not an option with IR in a reasonable price range? Perhaps if I can get LTS to sell it to me I can just buy an illuminator with the savings. There is a single street light very close to the camera. I know relying on street lighting alone is a no-no but I do plan on adding bright motion lights for added security eventually anyway.

if you are deadset on a dome camera look at this one..NSC-4A220-PTZir 2MP IP Weatherproof IR Mini PTZ Dome Security Camera 4.7-94mm - Nelly's Security its a hikvision rebranded camera and the only ptz with a dome enclosure AND ir...this is achieved by physically separating the ir and lens...this camera is also very compact compared to the others.
Note that domes are not any more vandal resistant than what you call a turret style ptz...
bottom line is any 2mp ptz with sufficient zoom will suit your needs...
Also not that you will not be able to capture plates at night with IR, unless you dedicate that camera to LPR.

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

I agree that most 2MP PTZ's with sufficient zoom would be sufficient. From what I was told by A1SecurityCameras a "turret style" lens is exposed and would suffer direct damage from rocks being thrown for example. From my own research I noticed these "turret styles" are not vandal rated. How is it possible that a camera rated IK10 is no more vandal resistant than one without vandal protection?

The second camera would be a dedicated LPR facing the direction that traffic moves along the one way. I would only be temporarily using this camera for that specific purpose and I highly doubt I would need 2 PTZ's in the front. I would love to PM you a private image so you can better understand what I'm thinking.

I love that recommendation by the way! I'm really glad to see it's an option in the marketplace. The unboxing was also quite informative: NSC-4A220-PTZir & NSC-4A320-PTZir Mini PTZ Security Camera Unboxing and Video Overview

I would need a bracket for wall mounting which would add to the price. I'm realizing the limitations of adding external illumination because it won't follow the camera. I assume the specs aren't posted because it's a no frills model without features that come with the models I listed like onboard storage, audio/alarm inputs etc?

P.S. I really like that it's difficult to see the camera moving or where it's aiming in dome PTZ's. It adds a decoy layer of security that I appreciate.

 

[fenderman]

I agree that most 2MP PTZ's with sufficient zoom would be sufficient. From what I was told by A1SecurityCameras a "turret style" lens is exposed and would suffer direct damage from rocks being thrown for example. From my own research I noticed these "turret styles" are not vandal rated. How is it possible that a camera rated IK10 is no more vandal resistant than one without vandal protection?

The second camera would be a dedicated LPR facing the direction that traffic moves along the one way. I would only be temporarily using this camera for that specific purpose and I highly doubt I would need 2 PTZ's in the front. I would love to PM you a private image so you can better understand what I'm thinking.

I love that recommendation by the way! I'm really glad to see it's an option in the marketplace. The unboxing was also quite informative: NSC-4A220-PTZir & NSC-4A320-PTZir Mini PTZ Security Camera Unboxing and Video Overview

I would need a bracket for wall mounting which would add to the price. I'm realizing the limitations of adding external illumination because it won't follow the camera. I assume the specs aren't posted because it's a no frills model without features that come with the models I listed like onboard storage, audio/alarm inputs etc?

P.S. I really like that it's difficult to see the camera moving or where it's aiming in dome PTZ's. It adds a decoy layer of security that I appreciate.

They ever test it? ratings should be taken with a huge grain of salt...if you are concerned about rocks being thrown at a camera you have big problems...any camera can be disabled with a can of spray paint or tape...you are overthinking it...
see the spec sheet..it has alarm and audio..its should also have an sd card slot...confirm with nellys..

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

I know I have big problems, i.e. why I'm installing more cameras and I'm fully aware of the spray paint trick but unlike rock throwing those methods require coming up to the camera which could help in identification even if they're masked. I'm about to install something almost a thousand dollars after all supplies and labor is factored in so excuse me for wanting to protect my investment.. My idea was that if that happened I could replace the dome and mount it on the roof rather than having to replace the entire camera.

My apologies I only was looking at the spec tab rather than the download section I see it now. Can I ask which hikvision model your recommended model is a clone of or am I bugging you too much?

 

[fenderman]

I know I have big problems, i.e. why I'm installing more cameras and I'm fully aware of the spray paint trick but unlike rock throwing those methods require coming up to the camera which could help in identification even if they're masked. I'm about to install something almost a thousand dollars after all supplies and labor is factored in so excuse me for wanting to protect my investment.. My idea was that if that happened I could replace the dome and mount it on the roof rather than having to replace the entire camera.

My apologies I only was looking at the spec tab rather than the download section I see it now. Can I ask which hikvision model your recommended model is a clone of or am I bugging you too much?

i can assure you with 100 percent certainty that the dome cameras will be no more resistant than others..in fact they have a larger target area, one hit and now you have a blemish that will cause all sorts of problems...get a cage and external ir..I can also guarantee that unless you are setting this up in a prison, no one will stand around there throwing rocks. You cannot id anyone who is masked. You are way overthinking this, wasting money as well. We often see folks planing for the most insane scenarios...not going to happen. If this is so dangerous to you then hire a company that does 24h live monitoring like this Remote Video Surveillance Security Camera Monitoring Service Florida owned by member bababouy

 

[fenderman]

Can I ask which hikvision model your recommended model is a clone of or am I bugging you too much?

there is a thread discussing this and the hikvision camera...

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

Are the dome pieces itself not replaceable? I had not considered a cage and if it happens that would be my next move. I'm in a gentrifying neighborhood but nearby is dope town and crime happens here regularly. It was my understanding that I should cover as many surveillance requirements as possible within my budget considering it will be serving me for at least the next 5 years. I'd rather do it right than do it again and had I not overthought the situation I could have bought a camera without IR.

You are right that 24/7 monitoring would be ideal but it's currently not in the budget. I will bookmark him however. Thank you for the help I'm going with the choice you recommended.

Could you link the other thread discussing this?

 

[fenderman]

Are the dome pieces itself not replaceable? I had not considered a cage and if it happens that would be my next move. I'm in a gentrifying neighborhood but nearby is dope town and crime happens here regularly. It was my understanding that I should cover as many surveillance requirements as possible within my budget considering it will be serving me for at least the next 5 years. I'd rather do it right than do it again and had I not overthought the situation I could have bought a camera without IR.

You are right that 24/7 monitoring would be ideal but it's currently not in the budget. I will bookmark him however. Thank you for the help I'm going with the choice you recommended.

Could you link the other thread discussing this?

Goodluck trying to get replacement parts for any of these cams....There are 35+ thousand members here...I have never seen a post where someone had a camera taken out by a rock...

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

If that's the case then which "turret style" model would you recommend as an alternative option to consider? Again I sincerely appreciate your assistance.

 

[fenderman]

If that's the case then which "turret style" model would you recommend as an alternative option to consider? Again I sincerely appreciate your assistance.

any of the ones listed above will suit your needs...look for the feature set you want..

 

[looney2ns]

Study these:
Dahua 2MP Starlight Lineup
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)
LPR It's an art.
Dahua 2MP 25x Starlight IR PTZ Network Camera (SD49225T-HN)
Dahua SD6AE240V-HNI 40x PTZ Starlight ***F1.2***
I'll be the guinea pig for the new SD59225U-HNI PTZ.

Use this:
Camera Calculator / Design Software keeping PPF>100

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

I already read the first 2 but the bottom 2 links I had not thank you looney2ns!

How do I rotate the camera in the IPVM camera calculator? I got stuck at that point.