NAS vs NVR vs PC for camera footage storage

[freddyq]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if I can get some help and advice about which option to take for storage and recording of IP camera footage. I am about to setup 3 Hikvision PoE IP cameras around the outside of the house and I'm not sure whether to use a NAS, NVR or PC for the recording and storage solution.

I like the idea of a NAS because I could then use that to store family photos/music/videos which could be accessed on the TV but it has been suggested that a NAS wouldn't offer as much features and functionality as using a PC with Blue Iris software. The PC option makes sense to me but I don't have a PC setup at home currently so I'd have to set that up and find a place for it, so it wasn't my desired option. The NVR route I'm not sure about at all.

I'm not really after anything fancy, just the ability to record the footage from the 3 cameras up to say 2-3 weeks in the past. It would be good if I could rewind and playback the recorded footage remotely via an app or browser but other than that I don't have any special requirements.

Any help or pointers to help decide which option is best would be much appreciated.

TIA!

 

[nayr]

NAS is a bad idea they have completely different use cases.. for example; if I loose a disk in my NAS, getting it back online is not a priority in the least; ensuring data integrity is top priority and I may have my nas offlne for days/weeks while I get replacement disks, rebuild, verify, restore from backups, etc..

if my NVR looses a disk, I yank it out and keep on going at reduced capacity with no concern what so ever to the integrity of the data.. uptime is king for video surveillance where as data integrity is king for my personal NAS with my photos/videos/etc on it.

Your video surveillance system is going to write a bunch of useless data; then overwrite it again and again and again until something happens and you save off a bit of video.. thats also going to reduce the life expectancy of your precious NAS drives.

 

[freddyq]

Fair point. That makes a lot of sense. I haven't really looked in detail at NVRs to be honest but what do I need to look out for in terms of specs and features? And will I have the ability to rewind and playback remotely? And alerts if any of the cameras sense movement?

 

[nayr]

of course but beware; cameras dont sense movement; they sense pixels changing.. so alerts off it is generally frowned upon; you'lll be getting 20 false alerts for every 1 real alert... motion detection off cameras is only usefull for marking a timeline of non-stop recording of where potential activity may be.. its not even reliable enough to trigger recordings because you will miss something important sooner or later.

alerts/notifications require real security sensors; or a PC NVR such as BlueIris that you can infinitely tweak and tune until you get close enough.

 

[jasauders]

nayr brings up excellent points. I wouldn't typically use my NAS as an NVR, but I went about it in a slightly different way that is more 'kosher' in my mind. If nothing else, here's my layout and how I went about it.

I use Ubuntu Server coupled with Bluecherry. Originally, my NAS was simply a NAS. Nothing else. Basic low end/low wattage i3, 8 GB of RAM, and 4x3TB WD Reds in a RAID 6. This stores all of my data/backups/documents/pictures/important stuff in the house, which later gets synchronized to other boxes/locations/etc etc. After I started to look into Bluecherry, it went onto a test machine, but ultimately, on the main server. Couldn't justify running two servers. Ironically, my server before Bluecherry averaged a 0-1% load, and after Bluecherry, it averages... pretty much the same. Heh.

Also in the "NAS" is a single 2TB WD Purple. The feeds get written to this disk, no others. I also added a 2nd NIC, thereby allowing me to put NIC A on the main LAN switch and NIC B on the 8 port POE switch with the cameras.

So overall, I have one bank of disks for data, one individual disk for CCTV, where both parties leave each other alone and have nothing to do with one another. The separate NICs just allow me to allocate bandwidth how I want it.

If the CCTV drive goes down in my server, I handle it the same way I'd handle it in an NVR -- replace it ASAP. If a disk goes down in the NAS, it's much of the same -- replace it, sync it up to RAID, etc., but those post-actions are done without involving the CCTV side of things. Might be the same box, same processor, etc., but the storage 'units' have their own set of tasks.

If I didn't have this level of control in the situation, I'd surely keep them split. Since I have no funds for a separate box (nor desire at this point) and can control pretty much everything and fine tune it how I want, this has worked well.

The other thing to consider is most PCNVR setups auto purge old feeds. Mine for example defaults to 95% where it begins nuking older feeds. If I had simply added Bluecherry to operate on my RAID, it'd just go to town on the available space unless I'd set up some sort of partitioning. With a dedicated drive, it eliminates that concern, as it's able to beat up its own drive all it wants.

Point being, yeah, NAS is typically not a good idea. But if you're a silly tech guy like myself, it can work if you go about it the right way.

 

[freddyq]

@nayr I totally get what you're saying about alerts based on movement detection - it's been mentioned to me before now that I think about it. So that gets me settled on a solution which records continuously from the 3 cameras. Assuming they are 4mp cameras and I want to capture at their maximum resolution and have a historical window of at least 2 weeks - how much storage does the NVR need to have?

@jasauders I'm just about following Sounds like you've got the setup figured out - I think for me right now, I'll keep the camera footage and other NAS stuff in separate boxes. Maybe in future I can change it up.

 

[fenderman]

@nayr . Assuming they are 4mp cameras and I want to capture at their maximum resolution and have a historical window of at least 2 weeks - how much storage does the NVR need to have?

dont get the 4mp cams...see this camera...Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)
storage capacity is based on bitrate not megapixel ratings..

 

[freddyq]

Interesting ok. My budget really was about £100 per cam. I was willing to go up to £117 for the hikvision 4mp turret I had seen so though I don't mind going with another camera which the experts think is better, it looks like this Dahua one will be well above budget...no?

Sorry could you help me understand the "storage capacity is based on bitrate not megapixels" comment?

 

[fenderman]

Interesting ok. My budget really was about £100 per cam. I was willing to go up to £117 for the hikvision 4mp turret I had seen so though I don't mind going with another camera which the experts think is better, it looks like this Dahua one will be well above budget...no?

Sorry could you help me understand the "storage capacity is based on bitrate not megapixels" comment?

its worth the extra few dollars...you will be sorry...There is a cheaper fixed version starlight but not as good low light (still much better than the hik) its 135..see the dahua threads...
The bitrate the camera streams at (whatever you set it to) determines how much hard drive space is consumed...nothing else.

 

[freddyq]

Hmm OK will have a look. I'm with you on the bitrate. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what capacity of hard drive I should be targeting given I'll have 3 cameras recording footage to it. 3tb?

 

[fenderman]

Hmm OK will have a look. I'm with you on the bitrate. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what capacity of hard drive I should be targeting given I'll have 3 cameras recording footage to it. 3tb?

There are online calculators....assume you will be using about 4096...

 

[alastairstevenson]

Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology Co. Ltd.
4th item down.
Check out the Batch Configuration tool as well. Good for Chinese menu IP cameras.
And SADP v3.x is a must.

 

[freddyq]

Right, I've just been through the entire thread on the Dahua forum about the starlight turret. Safe to say, I'm convinced the starlight is the better option! Like some say on that forum, it feels a going backwards from 4mp to 2mp but as the image sensor on the Dahua can take in more light I can see the technical explanation there. But what about if you had to zoom in to footage to help identify a face - would the 2mp result in a more pixelated image?

Also, I'm guessing the camera firmware can be updated and isn't one of those Chinese versions which can't be updated?

Is there a version of that cam which doesn't have a PTZ or varifocal functionality? I don't really need those two things but obviously they are increasing cost...

 

[freddyq]

Also, not sure how much that camera will work out in GBP...

 

[fenderman]

Right, I've just been through the entire thread on the Dahua forum about the starlight turret. Safe to say, I'm convinced the starlight is the better option! Like some say on that forum, it feels a going backwards from 4mp to 2mp but as the image sensor on the Dahua can take in more light I can see the technical explanation there. But what about if you had to zoom in to footage to help identify a face - would the 2mp result in a more pixelated image?

Also, I'm guessing the camera firmware can be updated and isn't one of those Chinese versions which can't be updated?

Is there a version of that cam which doesn't have a PTZ or varifocal functionality? I don't really need those two things but obviously they are increasing cost...

understand that 4mp is NOT 2x as clear as 2mp....its all about pixels per inch or pixel density...if you use the varifocal, and zoom in a bit you can actually get a higher pixel density than the 4mp camera at a given lens size..you should be able to update the firmware, but DONT...why mess with it. Furthermore, in low light or night, those extra pixels wont help if the image is full of noise...
That camera is NOT ptz..only varifocal....Spend the extra money...or buy less cameras...it will be worth while....

 

[freddyq]

Fair enough @fenderman - that explanation makes sense. I was only asking about firmware update because sometimes there may be something major in the update or a fix which you at least want to the option to be able to upgrade to having paid so much money. So yep, I won't be doing it for the hell of it but would like the option. If you can, that's great.

I think you guys have convinced me to go with the starlight! Maybe I'll get two to start with.

Never bought from aliexpress before although have heard of it. What is the best method of payment for someone in UK? I don't want to incur charges from my bank. Also, I see that the seller most talked about on the starlight thread doesn't have them in stock so any other recommended sellers?